PolishForums.com
POLAND . The Unofficial Guide
 Unanswered | Archives
Poland and Polish Community Witamy, Guest | PF Members | Gold Members

Polish Forums / Polonia - USA, Canada / Post reply Start a new thread in [Polonia - USA, Canada]

Why dont americans want a universal health care system?


page 30 of 89:  « Prev  1  ...  29  30  31  ...  88  89  Next »

skysoulmateThreads: 41
Posts: 3,039
Joined: Jan 10, 10 ♂ 		 Jan 10, 10, 17:12    #871
scrappleton:
Well said.. your anecdote is all the evidence I need frankly. Sorry about your mom. Good luck in 2010.

Thank you, she's in a much better place now...

I try to stay away from the health care discussion because obviously I'm very biased here and it's very personal, but sometimes I cave in...

Take care

PlasticPole - thanks for your advice - it worked....
PlasticPoleThreads: 10
Posts: 5,181
Joined: May 28, 09 ♀ 		Edited by: PlasticPole  Jan 10, 10, 17:15    #872
yw, skysoulmate. The same thing happens to me from time to time.

Scrappleton, the system is in need of a fix. Sooner or later someone will come along and do it and tax increases are invitable.
convexThreads: 47
Posts: 7,189
Joined: Nov 25, 09 Pictures: 2 ♂ 		 Jan 10, 10, 18:00    #873
Isn't NFZ having some serious problems right now? Granted Uwaga has a lot of dramatic fear mongering, but the reportage on cancer treatment gives me little to no hope in socialized medicine. Considering how much is taken out of salaries to pay for health care, it's not the best example of how public health care works...
skysoulmateThreads: 41
Posts: 3,039
Joined: Jan 10, 10 ♂ 		Edited by: skysoulmate  Jan 10, 10, 18:04    #874
Convex - off the subject - looks kind of small but is that a Piper Malibu in your avatar? If so I got some 60 hours in one a while back... :)
ZIMMYThreads: 10
Posts: 2,243
Joined: Feb 21, 09 ♂ 		 Jan 11, 10, 04:54    #875
U.S. Health is rated best in lots of objective categories.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704130904574644230678102 274.html?mod=WSJ_Opinion_LEFTTopOpinion

From the link: "The comparative ranking system that most critics cite comes from the U.N.'s World Health Organization (WHO). The ranking most often quoted is Overall Performance, where the U.S. is rated No. 37. The Overall Performance Index, however, is adjusted to reflect how well WHO officials believe that a country could have done in relation to its resources.The scale is heavily subjective: The WHO believes that we could have done better because we do not have universal coverage."

"The Nobel Prizes in medicine and physiology have been awarded to more Americans than to researchers in all other countries combined. Eight of the 10 top-selling drugs in the world were developed by U.S. companies. The U.S. has some of the highest breast, colon and prostate cancer survival rates in the world. And our country ranks first or second in the world in kidney transplants, liver transplants, heart transplants, total knee replacements, coronary artery bypass, and percutaneous coronary interventions."

"We have the shortest waiting time for nonemergency surgery in the world; England has one of the longest. In Canada, a country of 35 million citizens, 1 million patients now wait for surgery and another million wait to see specialists."





"
RonWestThreads: 3
Posts: 165
Joined: Jan 6, 10 ♂ 		 Jan 11, 10, 05:44    #876
The last thing we need is the government to get involved in the health care business. Hell, they can't even keep the post office out of the red or protect our borders!!!!!!!!!
PlasticPoleThreads: 10
Posts: 5,181
Joined: May 28, 09 ♀ 		 Jan 11, 10, 06:06    #877
With the health care bill, people who have health insurance now will not see a change. The ones who will see the changes are ones who don't have health insurance. People with health insurance have nothing to worry about. Why should they care about universal coverage? They will keep their carrier and see the same doctors in the same amount of time as before.
People without insurance will be forced to get it. President Obama wants to make a public option available, cheap insurance for people who don't give a damn and want something that will keep them from paying fines, whether they be small businesses or private citizens.
The health insurance companies do not want the public option made available right away, they want to get as much of the business as they can before the govt swoops in with it's competitive prices. Chances are the public option won't be available at first, but will be eventually.
ZIMMYThreads: 10
Posts: 2,243
Joined: Feb 21, 09 ♂ 		 Jan 11, 10, 06:34    #878
PlasticPole:
people who have health insurance now will not see a change.

Yes they will; when the government undercuts these insurance companies then people will be forced into the Government HealthScare Program. You more or less point that out with this;
PlasticPole:
the govt swoops in with it's competitive prices. Chances are the public option won't be available at first, but will be eventually.

<><><><><><><><><><><>

As to the vaulted Cuban socialist health care system; seems like some Cuban doctors disagree;
http://taxingtennessee.blogspot.com/2010/01/cuban-doctors-defecting-to -us-via.html
skysoulmateThreads: 41
Posts: 3,039
Joined: Jan 10, 10 ♂ 		Edited by: skysoulmate  Jan 11, 10, 06:49    #879
PlasticPole:
With the health care bill, people who have health insurance now will not see a change. The ones who will see the changes are ones who don't have health insurance. People with health insurance have nothing to worry about. Why should they care about universal coverage? They will keep their carrier and see the same doctors in the same amount of time as before.
People without insurance will be forced to get it. President Obama wants to make a public option available, cheap insurance for people who don't give a damn and want something that will keep them from paying fines, whether they be small businesses or private citizens.
The health insurance companies do not want the public option made available right away, they want to get as much of the business as they can before the govt swoops in with it's competitive prices. Chances are the public option won't be available at first, but will be eventually.

PlasticPole - I'll get into this debate one more time... I'm sorry but I totally disagree with you. "People with current insurance plans won't see any difference" - really? for how long?

"Public option" is nothing else than a government subsidized option which will eventually end up competing with private plans. NO private business can ever compete with the government as private businesses need to raise rates in order to combat inflation and new costs whereas the government simply needs to raise taxes. Not a whole lot of private health care insurance companies, hospitals, etc. in Scandinavia, huh? Hmm, I wonder why?

In the long run - and I'm talking 10+ years - a public option would run private insurance companies out of the health care industry... Why would you pay $100 a month for a private insurance when you can get it for $50 via a "public" option? Eventually insurance companies would be getting out of the insurance business one by one via this "stealth government takeover"...

Government has NEVER been able to control costs and it will never be able to control the costs. Reason? The mentality of all politicians - "Why bother? If we have to we'll raise the taxes..." That's a fact of life and you have to agree with me on this one...

I read an article from an independent government audit agency a while back which was about the initial Medicare bill. It is estimated that the Medicare actual cost when it was first implemented in 1965 turned out to be some 600% higher throughout the years than the most pessimistic estimates at the time... Do you really think a public option health care will be any different?

We have three large package and mail delivery businesses in the US. US Post Office (government run), Fedex and UPS (DHL is foreign own and subsidized by the German government so I don't take it into the consideration here).

The post office has been losing money for the last 35 years yet Fedex and UPS, both private companies, have been profitable for decades. In fact, in 2007 UPS celebrated the 100th year anniversary as a company... That's the difference between government and private run businesses. Neither is perfect of course and there always need to be true competition and audits, monitoring for corruption, etc. However government controlled ALWAYS equals poor quality and overpriced... This will be no different.


PS. Since you seem to be an Obama kool-aid drinker (I'm just picking on you ;) - I personally do believe Obama was born in Hawaii (which is where I live) even though some don't. However, I find it disgusting that he refuses to show his birth certificate to the public like all other presidents have done even though he promised "openness and transparency"... To show it to the selected officials is not good enough and he's lost lots of credibility because of it... Just my 1/2 penny on the subject...

PSS. You need to switch from being a "PlasticPole" to a "Pre-PaidPole" - it'll be better for your finances in the long run... Just keedin' LOL
PlasticPoleThreads: 10
Posts: 5,181
Joined: May 28, 09 ♀ 		Edited by: PlasticPole  Jan 11, 10, 17:10    #880
skysoulmate:
I personally do believe Obama was born in Hawaii (which is where I live)

They were talking about this on the radio just the other day. For all you people who believe he was not ~ he was. They found newspapers with birth announcements. He's as American as Apple pie with vanilla ice cream.

As for the post office, it's a good thing it exists. It makes companies like Fed Ex and UPS better. Keeps them on their toes. When govt competes with private industry, everybody wins :D
convexThreads: 47
Posts: 7,189
Joined: Nov 25, 09 Pictures: 2 ♂ 		 Jan 11, 10, 17:17    #881
Question from the audience, how will the worlds largest debtor nation pay for universal health care? How does the government make sure that "insurance for everyone" doesn't just drive up the overall price of health care, thus becoming a grotesque handout to an already overpriced health care service?
PlasticPoleThreads: 10
Posts: 5,181
Joined: May 28, 09 ♀ 		Edited by: PlasticPole  Jan 11, 10, 17:22    #882
By raising taxes.

Seriously, I have a great idea. Ding. What if, instead of hand outs, people did community service in payment of their healthcare? They could do work for the industry that otherwise would be done by nurses aides and that could keep costs lower :D
That way, they would be paying for their services by doing something.

We need more volunteerism in medicine. People working their butts off without getting any money for it is the key to keeping down costs ;)
As we all know.
roberczik  Jan 11, 10, 21:31    #883
PlasticPole:
We need more volunteerism in medicine. People working their butts off without getting any money for it is the key to keeping down costs ;)

How about denying Illegals free health care, that would save us billions!
sadieannThreads: 4
Posts: 320
Joined: Apr 28, 09 ♀ 		Edited by: sadieann  Jan 11, 10, 21:50    #884
PlasticPole:
volunteerism in medicine

Similiar to Lawyers working Pro Bono. Students working in the field supervised by Doctors.
skysoulmateThreads: 41
Posts: 3,039
Joined: Jan 10, 10 ♂ 		Edited by: skysoulmate  Jan 11, 10, 22:29    #885
PlasticPole:
...They were talking about this on the radio just the other day. For all you people who believe he was not ~ he was. They found newspapers with birth announcements. He's as American as Apple pie with vanilla ice cream.

I'm sure he is. He is also dishonest for telling the American public he'd be a transparent and an open president. I voted for him but regret it now, for several reasons - this being a "minor" one.

To show his birth certificate to the few selected officials but not to the American public is dishonest at best, even cowardly. He's the first president EVER who has withheld his birth certificate from the public eye. Shameful and disrespectful to the American voters.

I read a great article by a "left-leaning" and a pro-Obama reporter who said the main reason he doesn't want to show it is because his father listed "Muslim" as his religion on it - at the time many birth certificates included information about the child's religion. A silly practice and long gone yet it existed at one time. If that's the case - so what!? An adult can chose his own religion and even if he was a Muslim (he's not) he should be proud of who he is. To show his birth certificate to a few selected officials is contrary to his pledge of openness and I and many others strongly dislike it.


PlasticPole:
As for the post office, it's a good thing it exists. It makes companies like Fed Ex and UPS better. Keeps them on their toes. When govt competes with private industry, everybody wins :D

You forgot to mention the billions of dollars the taxpayers have paid throughout the years to keep the constantly semi-bancrupt and chronically incompetent US Post Office alive...

I guess you're sort of like Hugo Chavez, revolution and socialism! - no matter the cost to the public. ;)

I can tell you're an utopian idealist. Marx, Engels and Lenin were too.. ...but in a perverse way so was Hitler, Stalin, Pol Pot and Mao Zedong. Isn't it amazing that ALL the individuals I just mentioned called themselves socialists/communists?

Workers of the World, UNITE ... in misery...
convexThreads: 47
Posts: 7,189
Joined: Nov 25, 09 Pictures: 2 ♂ 		 Jan 11, 10, 22:43    #886
skysoulmate:
You forgot to mention the billions of dollars the taxpayers have paid throughout the years to keep the constantly semi-bancrupt and chronically incompetent US Post Office alive...

Just a comment regarding the post office. They have to supply mail to you at a standard rate no matter how far off in the middle of nowhere you live. In return, they have a monopoly on junk mail. In addition, they have much higher operating costs, maintaining and staffing branch offices for instance, than private companies.

The neat thing though, is that millions, billions if you take in the tax breaks) of tax payer dollars are going to subsidize UPS and FedEX at the same time.

There's no welfare like corporate welfare.
skysoulmateThreads: 41
Posts: 3,039
Joined: Jan 10, 10 ♂ 		Edited by: skysoulmate  Jan 11, 10, 23:23    #887
"The neat thing though, is that millions, billions if you take in the tax breaks) of tax payer dollars are going to subsidize UPS and FedEX at the same time. "

You have some good points although I disagree with the overall premise of your post. Could you expand on the above quote? Not sure I follow?
convexThreads: 47
Posts: 7,189
Joined: Nov 25, 09 Pictures: 2 ♂ 		 Jan 12, 10, 00:01    #888
Here is a nice overview on the Indy Fedex hub.

I am completely for privatization of everything that is nonessential, including the post office. That said, the US postal service is a terrible example of public vs. private sector comparisons. The postal service is bound by the universal service obligation. FedEx and UPS would tell you to eat **** if you tried to send a letter across the country for $0.42. I'm no fan of government run anything, but USPS hasn't been supported (directly) by tax payer money for almost 30 years. Junk mail however isn't proving to be as profitable as it used to be, and USPS has been in the red for the last two years.

But really, there is no money in moving individual packages from point a to point b. The money is in logistics and freight forwarding, and USPS doesn't touch that. UPS and FedEx are eating at the trough of the taxpayer...have been for many years, and will continue to dine as long as the food keeps coming.
skysoulmateThreads: 41
Posts: 3,039
Joined: Jan 10, 10 ♂ 		 Jan 12, 10, 01:22    #889
Convex, again all great points. I'll have to do some more research before I reply to your post...
BabinichThreads: 1
Posts: 1,049
Joined: May 26, 08 Pictures: 1 ♂ 		 Jan 15, 10, 11:58    #890
Ok, this explains the ineffectiveness of government.

http://thehill.com/blogs/hillicon-valley/technology/75965-white-house- blames-inefficient-government-on-outdated-technologies

The cleansing process begins January 19th 2010. Hopefully the potential election of Scott Brown builds into a tsunami which carries this nation through November of this year.
skysoulmateThreads: 41
Posts: 3,039
Joined: Jan 10, 10 ♂ 		Edited by: skysoulmate  Jan 16, 10, 01:20    #891
Babinich:
Ok, this explains the ineffectiveness of government.

Yeah, new computers will make the government (any government) efficient! I have some beautiful ocean-view property for sale in Oklahoma! LOL

Babinich:
The cleansing process begins January 19th 2010. Hopefully the potential election of Scott Brown builds into a tsunami which carries this nation through November of this year.

I agree, Obama could be the best thing that happened to Republicans since Carter...
TymoteuszThreads: 7
Posts: 694
Joined: Jul 25, 09 ♂ 		 Jan 16, 10, 03:33    #892
Gross incompetence and a complete disregard for the will of the people are reason enough for me!
musicwriterThreads: 5
Posts: 95
Joined: Jan 7, 10 ♂ 		 Jan 16, 10, 03:55    #893
Five colds a year? Wow! I catch on the average of two colds over a five-year period. I don't smoke, drink a couple beers a month, excercise twice a week. I am 5' 10" and weigh 167 lbs.
ZIMMYThreads: 10
Posts: 2,243
Joined: Feb 21, 09 ♂ 		 Jan 16, 10, 06:55    #894
I just channeled Reagan
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fRdLpem-AAs&feature=related
skysoulmateThreads: 41
Posts: 3,039
Joined: Jan 10, 10 ♂ 		Edited by: skysoulmate  Jan 16, 10, 07:17    #895
I like these two... :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RRUbwnkEPqc

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LoPu1UIBkBc
Wroclaw BoyThreads: 56
Posts: 5,267
Joined: Jul 3, 09 Pictures: 3 Gold Member MEMBER ♂ 		Edited by: Wroclaw Boy  Jan 16, 10, 13:40    #896
skysoulmate:
To show his birth certificate to a few selected officials is contrary to his pledge of openness and I and many others strongly dislike it.

Showing a birth certificate with his fathers religion listed as Muslim in public is quite simply political suicide. Maybe you and a few others disagree but more would aprove his choice was the correct one.
convexThreads: 47
Posts: 7,189
Joined: Nov 25, 09 Pictures: 2 ♂ 		 Jan 16, 10, 13:52    #897
musicwriter:
Five colds a year? Wow! I catch on the average of two colds over a five-year period. I don't smoke, drink a couple beers a month, excercise twice a week. I am 5' 10" and weigh 167 lbs.

Hah, I've got you beat. I can't remember the last time I was sick... I smoke, drink a couple beers a night, watch sports, and am about 30lbs heavier than you. I'm not ruling out some form of alcohol induced selective amnesia with regards to remembering when I was last sick.

I don't want to make any bets about heart disease though...
skysoulmateThreads: 41
Posts: 3,039
Joined: Jan 10, 10 ♂ 		 Jan 16, 10, 14:10    #898
Wroclaw Boy:
birth certificate with his fathers religion listed as Muslim in public is quite simply political suicide

Before the election I might've agreed but now? What's the point? The religious part is just a speculation at this point as no one, including some high ranking Democrats seem to understand? What's so horrible on that tiny piece of paper that makes him backtrack on his promise of openness? I just don't get it. Again, I view myself as a conservative but I gave him a chance - I voted for him - now I wonder why?
ZIMMYThreads: 10
Posts: 2,243
Joined: Feb 21, 09 ♂ 		 Jan 16, 10, 14:41    #899
Wroclaw Boy:
Showing a birth certificate with his fathers religion listed as Muslim in public is quite simply political suicide. Maybe you and a few others disagree

Yea, I disagree; ever hear the word "transparency" being used by Obama? What a hypocrite and that's saying the least.......
delphiandomineThreads: 40
Posts: 9,587
Joined: Nov 25, 08 ♂ 		 Jan 16, 10, 14:57    #900
Wroclaw Boy:
Showing a birth certificate with his fathers religion listed as Muslim in public is quite simply political suicide. Maybe you and a few others disagree but more would aprove his choice was the correct one.

http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/birthcertificate.asp

The whole birth certificate thing is simply an attempt by desperate GOP members attempting to somehow come to terms with the way that Obama will almost certainly stay around for 8 years. Where were they when Bush was selectively withholding many records?

page 30 of 89:  « Prev  1  ...  29  30  31  ...  88  89  Next »

Home / Polonia - USA, Canada / Unanswered [this forum] | Similar


Similar discussions:

Reply re: Why dont americans want a universal health care system?

If you're reading this, you are probably not a registered user yet and cannot access all forums and features!

 - Before creating a new thread, make sure to follow the Thread Title Creation Rules.
 - Your message must comply with the General Forum Rules.
 - If you have further questions, check the Forum FAQ & Feedback section.

To post anonymously, please enter a temporary and unique username (without password) or login and post as a member.

Username:   Password: 


re: Why dont americans want a universal health care system?


Posting Guidelines:

- Stay on topic. If your post is not related to this thread, create a new thread or post in the Off-topic forum.
- Use the Search and Similar Threads features to avoid duplicating threads.
- Do not insult or harass others, play nicely!
- Do not personally attack others to avoid temporary or permanent suspension.
To move back to Poland from the USA or not to move back....that is the question  Pierogi Fest in Whiting, Indiana


Random: Seeking Business Partners in Poland, USA, UK, Europe



Home | Unanswered | Archives | Random | Statistics Time in Poland: 06:39 / Feb 10

About Us | Contact Us | Rules, Privacy | Poland Advertising
© 2005-12 PolishForums.com