Why dont americans want a universal health care system?

ZIMMYThreads: 10 Posts: 2,243 Joined: Feb 21, 09 ♂	Jan 16, 10, 15:11 #901
delphiandomine: Obama will almost certainly stay around for 8 years. The election results in Massachusetts this coming week will be telling. I see you are still stuck on Bush. So is Obama. I can just picture him still blaming Bush at the end of his presidency.

delphiandomineThreads: 40 Posts: 9,587 Joined: Nov 25, 08 ♂	Jan 16, 10, 15:13 #902
ZIMMY: I see you are still stuck on Bush. So is Obama. I can just picture him still blaming Bush at the end of his presidency. Given the damage that Bush did to America's reputation, he's going to be blamed by a hell of a lot more people in years to come. Then again, Congress can be blamed alongside Bush for many of the failings during his years.

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Edited by: skysoulmate Jan 16, 10, 15:16 #903

If you read my original statement I said that I believe he was born on Hawai'i, and I still do. However, the snopes article you just showed mentioned that "...Those who have actually touched and examined the original certificate have verified and documented that it bears all the elements of a valid certificate of live birth..."

That was my contention, why is it only selected officials who can see it and verify it? Why is he creating uncertainty by not being as transparent as he promised. When Carter or Clinton or Bush were presidents any news agency could request their birth certificate. With O it's convoluted - why?

The Bush files you mentioned were not required by law, whether he lied or not (I don't think he did but know you do believe he did) your previous military service is irrelevant to becoming a president, at least according to the Consitution. A US president however must have been born in the US. So kill all the rumors by being as honest and as transparent as you promised Mr. President.

"The election results in Massachusetts this coming week will be telling."

I think it might be close but I think Dems will win. Obama and lots of big fish will be campaining in the state to get the Dems out to vote.

convexThreads: 47 Posts: 7,189 Joined: Nov 25, 09 ♂	Edited by: convex Jan 16, 10, 15:20 #904
delphiandomine: Then again, Congress can be blamed alongside Bush for many of the failings during his years. Congress gave the thumbs up to just about everything that Bush did. Both Republicans and Democrats. skysoulmate: A US president however must have been born in the US. So kill all the rumors by being as honest and as transparent as you promised Mr. President. Thank you, come again!

MEMBER ♂

Jan 16, 10, 16:02 #905

ZIMMY:

Yea, I disagree; ever hear the word "transparency" being used by Obama? What a hypocrite and that's saying the least.......

Its funny that basically every yank on this forum has something bad to say about Obama, but yet he is president and won by a massive majority. Now thats hypocracy imo.

yes ive heard the word Trasparency, still doesnt mean im going to tell you about that Ecstacy tablet i took back in 1995. Whats the point?

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Jan 16, 10, 16:09 #906

Wroclaw Boy:

Its funny that basically every yank on this forum has something bad to say about Obama, but yet he is president and won by a massive majority. Now thats hypocracy imo.

A massive 7% majority of the popular vote. And that, even with Sarah Palin on the other guys ticket.

Kind of like saying that island monkeys shouldn't complain about Brown because the reds took 10% more votes than the Tories in 2006.

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Jan 16, 10, 16:51 #907

Wroclaw Boy:

Its funny that basically every yank on this forum has something bad to say about Obama, but yet he is president and won by a massive majority

Now this "majority" wishes they never voted for him. Obama lied about many things, such as the troops coming home. haha, more are being deployed. Our social security system for the elderly hasn't gone up this year even though the COL has.
Now with this Haiti thing, USA sending millions of dollars in aid, and who is going to pay for it? US tax payers. Of course the illegals in the US don't pay taxes so it's only the US citizens who are paying for other countries disasters. When there is an earthquake in the US or hurricane, what country helps us? America is giving the false image to the world that everyone here is rich. This Obama thing is destroying the US from the inside out and other countries enjoy watching the US go into poverty.
And I won't even talk about his abortion and health care issues and how he praises China for their "one child population" practics. Well now these "one child" chinese won't be able to find any wives in the next decade.
Obama is going down in big steps.

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Jan 16, 10, 16:54 #908

convex:

A massive 7% majority of the popular vote

That is indeed a big majority in any true democratic society (in France, when Sarkozy was elected in 2007 with 53% of votes vs 46% to the socialist candidate, the socialists recognized later that he had been well elected).Of course, if you reference base is African dictactors, North Korea or the old Soviet Union, then yes I agree it's a different matter...

convexThreads: 47 Posts: 7,189 Joined: Nov 25, 09 ♂	Edited by: convex Jan 16, 10, 17:24 #909
bullfrog: Of course, if you reference base is African dictactors, North Korea or the old Soviet Union, then yes I agree it's a different matter... I was thinking more about historic US popular vote...

BabinichThreads: 1 Posts: 1,049 Joined: May 26, 08 ♂	Jan 16, 10, 19:05 #910
When plunder becomes a way of life for a group of men living together in society, they create for themselves in the course of time a legal system that authorizes it and a moral code that justifies it. - Frederic Bastiat Bye bye equal protection; hello class action law suits... http://boortz.com/nealz_nuze/2010/01/equal-protection-under-the-law.ht ml

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Edited by: skysoulmate Jan 17, 10, 01:16 #911

"...Now with this Haiti thing, USA sending millions of dollars in aid, and who is going to pay for it? US tax payers..."

The quote function doesn't work on the iPhone, that's why I copy & paste every now and then.

Krysia - I'm a fiscal conservative and I agree with you on many things but I'm proud we're sending money and help to Haiti and hope we'll send more! My airline has volunteered airplanes and fuel, we the pilots are volunteering to fly for no pay to bring in food and supplies to Haiti.

Right now that country puts the worst slums in Mumbai to shame! We should help and knowing the American people we will help in a big way.

You're talking about 50 thousand, possibly 100 thousand people losing their lives not to mention those who'll die later from their injuries. With all due respect - f@@k this taxpayer nonsense - this is not the time to worrying about it, this is the time to be human and compationate, they way the world felt for us on 9/11... and "only" 3,000 people died on that day...

Just my take on it and I didn't mean to put you down but I like to keep things in perspective...

jonniThreads: 26 Posts: 4,189 Joined: Nov 27, 07 ♂	Jan 17, 10, 01:21 #912
krysia: Now with this Haiti thing, USA sending millions of dollars in aid, and who is going to pay for it? US tax payers. The poorest country in the Western hemisphere right on the US's doorstep and an ex-colony of the US to boot. Leaving that aside, to echo what skysoulmate said, sending aid to those in direst need is a generous and decent act. The swift response should be a source of pride.

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Jan 17, 10, 01:36 #913

jonni:

an ex-colony of the US to boot.

Of France.. the US had never had colonies.. maybe Puerto Rico and Hawaii to a degree but that's it. Colonies were a European thing.. to a degree still are.

It's the same thing as always you throw millions at countries like Haiti and they will remain unchanged decade after decade. The US is mostly giving aid to them so they don't storm our shores as refugees.

skysoulmateThreads: 41 Posts: 3,039 Joined: Jan 10, 10 ♂	Edited by: skysoulmate Jan 17, 10, 01:40 #914
jonni: The poorest country in the Western hemisphere right on the US's doorstep and an ex-colony of the US to boot. Ex colony of US? I'm sure you mean France. The other islands were Spain or Britain and a few Dutch. Agree with the rest of your post.

jonniThreads: 26 Posts: 4,189 Joined: Nov 27, 07 ♂	Jan 17, 10, 01:41 #915
scrappleton: the US had never had colonies. The first United States occupation of Haiti began on July 28, 1915 and ended in mid-August, 1934. scrappleton: countries like Haiti Largely unique. scrappleton: so they don't storm our shores as refugees By all accounts that happens anyway.

skysoulmateThreads: 41 Posts: 3,039 Joined: Jan 10, 10 ♂	Jan 17, 10, 01:44 #916
jonni: The first United States occupation of Haiti began on July 28, 1915 and ended in mid-August, 1934. Occupation and colony are different things.

scrappletonThreads: - Posts: 1,365 Joined: Apr 28, 09 ♂	Jan 17, 10, 01:47 #917
jonni: By all accounts that happens anyway. No, it doesn't.. not on that scale. skysoulmate: Occupation and colony are different things. Yes apparently Japan is just California West.

jonniThreads: 26 Posts: 4,189 Joined: Nov 27, 07 ♂	Jan 17, 10, 01:47 #918
skysoulmate: Occupation and colony are different things. Probably not much difference from the Haitian point of view!

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Edited by: skysoulmate Jan 17, 10, 01:58 #919

jonni:

Probably not much difference from the Haitian point of view!

I enjoy discussions, especially with people I might disagree with.

Having said that, it's hard to discuss issues when a person's seathing hate or discontent makes them use wrong terms for purely populist reasons. Of course every America hater applauds you when you say stuff like that but according to the international norms and conventions established by the Leage of Nations and then by the UN Haiti was ocupied by the US but was never a colony - so for the sake of the discusion plz use proper terms, otherwise you simply turn into a anti-amarican propagandist and there are plenty of them out there...

90999

...and for a second if I could change the subject. Here in the US you can donate by simply texting 90999.

It goes straight to Red Cross. Check with your church, favorite charity or your friends... Every Dollar, Pound or Złoty counts!!!

http://american.redcross.org/site/PageServer?pagename=ntld_nolnav_text 2help

Thank you, back to regular programming...

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Edited by: jonni Jan 17, 10, 02:05 #920

skysoulmate:

a anti-amarican propagandist

I'm generally pro-American.

But the concept of a colony (all three types) and an occupation overlap, especially in peacetime. The conduct of the US in Haiti (both positive and negative) didn't substantially differ from that of other colonial powers at the time (compare the Monro Doctrine and the Palmerston Declaration - those guys were in effect establishing the same principles) and the effect on the day-to-day lives of Haitians quite the same.

Here in the US you can donate by simply texting 90999

I good idea - maybe one of the phone companies in PL will do that.

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Edited by: scrappleton Jan 17, 10, 02:10 #921

jonni:

But the concept of a colony (all three types) and an occupation overlap,

No, they don't really. You're splitting hairs.. something the British love to do. A colony is generally accepted as an offshoot of the mother country.. the colony works for the mother country, produces for it , makes it money.. This is not the case with Haiti it never was. I had another Brit swear up and down on this forum that Vietnam was a colony of the US's as well.

jonniThreads: 26 Posts: 4,189 Joined: Nov 27, 07 ♂	Jan 17, 10, 02:12 #922
scrappleton: A colony is generally accepted as an offshoot of the mother country One of the types of colony is precisely that. The other two aren't. scrappleton: produces for it , makes it money. Likewise.

scrappletonThreads: - Posts: 1,365 Joined: Apr 28, 09 ♂	Jan 17, 10, 02:14 #923
jonni: Likewise. You have provided a semantics lesson, nothing else. Another thing the British love.

jonniThreads: 26 Posts: 4,189 Joined: Nov 27, 07 ♂	Jan 17, 10, 02:15 #924
What have you proved? Nothing.

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Jan 17, 10, 02:21 #925

I disagree with you Jonni because you're expressing an opinion not a fact. If you were correct EVERY citizen of Haiti, Japan, Germany, etc. would be entitled to a US passport. Either way, let's agree to disagree. More important things going on in the world right now, wouldn't you say?

Enjoyed the discussion...

Folks, open up your hearts and your wallets. Choose your favorite charity, your help does make a difference! Remember the times the world was sending food packages to those in need in Poland after the Martial Law was declared..

To be compationate is to be human...

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Jan 17, 10, 02:27 #926

skysoulmate:

If you were correct EVERY citizen of Haiti, Japan, Germany, etc. would be entitled to a US passport.

I am correct, and citizens of India, South Africa, Canada (and for that matter Massachusetts, Virginia etc) are not automatically entitled to British passports, nor are citizens of Brazil entitled to Portugese ones.

skysoulmate:

let's agree to disagree.

Yes.

skysoulmate:

More important things going on in the world right now, wouldn't you say?

Yes. Worth sending some cash to one of the Haiti appeals. They really need it now.

skysoulmateThreads: 41 Posts: 3,039 Joined: Jan 10, 10 ♂	Edited by: skysoulmate Jan 17, 10, 02:46 #927
Jonni - You're a lady so I'll let you have the last word. ;) (I think Jonni is a female name? if not my apologies)

f stopThreads: 28 Posts: 2,682 Joined: Dec 9, 09 ♀	Jan 17, 10, 02:48 #928
I don't want to steer this into the presidency discussion, but I saw a funny bumper sticker: "In America, anyone can be president. That's one of the risks you take. "

RonWestThreads: 3 Posts: 165 Joined: Jan 6, 10 ♂	Jan 17, 10, 03:47 #929
krysia: Obama is going down in big steps. God, I hope so!!!!!!!!!!!!

z_dariusThreads: 22 Posts: 5,091 Joined: Oct 18, 07 ♂	Jan 17, 10, 04:26 #930
krysia: When there is an earthquake in the US or hurricane, what country helps us? America is giving the false image to the world that everyone here is rich. That false image is correctly interpreted as false. Hence some countries did reach out to help those Americans who were in need.

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