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Why dont americans want a universal health care system?

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Aug 6, 09, 02:33 #91

Marek11111:

because in U.S. the republicans made the education level is so low that people do not think for them self just watch the corporate media news networks and that is how they brain washed all

Liberals (Democrats) have had absolute control of the American education system for 50 years.

PlasticPole:

The govt already subsidizes medicaid and medicare so it's already somewhat socialized

Ah! The heart of the matter! In the late 70s early 80s, These programs were spiraling out of control. The Govts answer to this was to pass laws that required hospitals to treat without cost every indigent who walked through the door. Now, This unfunded mandate forced hospitals to find a way to pay for this. The solution was to have all hospitals contribute to a fund that would be used to reimberse the local hospital that agreed to take these indigents. How to fund the fund?.... The Govt was clearly not interested in increasing taxes to cover this new law. Hospitals were forced to pass these costs on to the paying customers! In other words, The insured will be charged a higher price to cover the treatment of the uninsured. Now, Naturally, The insurance companies raised rates to cover the cost increases. That is why your premiums have gone ballistic. The Govt has taxed you without you knowing. Pretty sneaky, Huh.

My only experience with socialised medicine was this- While in France to start-up a chemical company, A French citizen got phosphoric acid in his eye. I sat with him in an opthamologists office for 6 hours while everyone else was seen first. We didnt have an appointment.

One more thing! To all my Euro friends, Your medications are about to get much more expensive. The U.S. has been the only profitable place to sell pharma. When we begin to bargain collectively, your cost for medicine will triple. The days of us indirectly subsidizing your medicine are over. The second effect of this will be research grinding to a halt. Nice job, In your zeal to screw us, you screwed yourself.

The "mindless hearts" will probably win the day. Everyone will be worse for it. Eventually....

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Aug 6, 09, 03:36 #92

Tymoteusz:

The insurance companies raised rates to cover the cost increases.

Which is why the premiums are projected to spiral in the next ten years (or less). Typical scenario, an overweight alcoholic smoker enters the emergency room complaining of chest pains. His blood pressure is out of control, his liver has psoriasis and he has other health problems that need addressing. That's just one of many examples. Since there are so many without health insurance and who never see a doctor, once they make it to the ER it costs a lot more to treat them. They can't pay the bill so it gets passed on to the consumer.
The government can foot the bill but what we need in the US is less junk food and emphasis on prevention or it's going to cost a fortune to insure all these people who don't care enough about themselves enough to try to live a healthy lifestyle.

TymoteuszThreads: 7 Posts: 694 Joined: Jul 25, 09 ♂	Aug 6, 09, 03:42 #93
PlasticPole: an overweight alcoholic smoker Whoa! Now your getting personal! (snicker)

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Aug 6, 09, 04:02 #94

Marek11111:

U.S. the republicans made the education level is so low that people do not think for them self

That is a bizarre comment because liberals (Democrats) run the educational institutions and in too many instances indoctrinate the students.

Tymoteusz:

My only experience with socialised medicine was this- While in France to start-up a chemical company, A French citizen got phosphoric acid in his eye. I sat with him in an opthamologists office for 6 hours while everyone else was seen first. We didnt have an appointment.

Unfortunately true. Governments, hence bureaucrats thrive on poor service at high prices. After all, there is no need to make a profit and it's somebody else's (taxpayers) money. Accountability is not a pressing issue.

Canadians and even some Europeans come to the U.S. for operations because they fear waiting while some bureacrat is checking off some time list.

PlasticPole:

there are so many without health insurance and who never see a doctor, once they make it to the ER it costs a lot more to treat them.

It's too bad that the concept of 'personal responsibility' is so lacking.

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Edited by: Babinich Aug 6, 09, 04:07 #95

szkotja2007:

A measure of a society is how it looks after its less fortunate.

That has nothing to do with universal health care.

Detroit and their school systems... A result of taking care of the unfortunate.

http://www.crainsdetroit.com/article/20090805/FREE/908059985#

As for universal health care...

The President, his Cabinet and staff, and Congressional Democrats are running around the country talking about proposed legislative changes to health insurance rules. The most important for this discussion are:

* Guaranteed issue and renewal: Everyone can buy health insurance, no matter what their medical condition. And everyone can renew their insurance, no matter what their medical condition.
* Community rating: Everyone pays the same premium, no matter what their medical condition. (Modifications will allow a range).

If you want the health insurance reforms being pushed by the President and Speaker (guaranteed issue and renewal, and a version of community rating), then you also have to have an individual mandate.

The rub is that an individual mandate means everyone must have or buy health insurance. There will be low-income people not covered by Medicaid who won’t be able to afford health insurance. If you want them to buy, you’ll either have to subsidize them or force them to make some extremely difficult choices within their already tight budgets. Politicians will choose the subsidy route.

polkamaniacThreads: 1 Posts: 514 Joined: Aug 2, 09 ♂	Aug 6, 09, 04:51 #96
The biggest reason fot not having universal health care is:MONEY !!!!!It costs big bucks and that means increase in taxes which nobody likes.

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Aug 6, 09, 05:10 #97

People pay freely for a car insurance, flood insurance, home insuarance..to name a few, why should paying for health insurance be any different? We pay for any of the above, hoping we never have to file a claim for, right?

Yes, I want the best I can afford when i need one. I don't want a government to tell me...well, you're 74 years old...you need a kidney and we have only one match..we'll give it to the 28 years old instead. Too bad for you you Eurola..we are the ones who decide, not your insurance or your doctor, we are the big government.

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Aug 6, 09, 05:19 #98

Eurola:

Insurance is a bad idea. People pay for home owners insurance then something like Hurricane Katrina happens and there's no way the insurance companies can pay for all those claims on such a massive scale. It's a waste of money.

EurolaThreads: 6 Posts: 2,647 Joined: Dec 2, 06 ♀	Aug 6, 09, 05:23 #99
Insurance is never a waste of money. It is your security and a peace of mind. Unfortunately, there are also the "act of God" disasters (Katrina), hail, earthquake..and most of us don't have insurance for that, hoping it never happens.

PlasticPoleThreads: 10 Posts: 5,181 Joined: May 28, 09 ♀	Aug 6, 09, 05:52 #100
Actually, it isn't peace of mind and security because it doesn't work. There's never enough money to pay for all the claims. Health Insurance and Home Owner's are the two biggest frauds going.

z_dariusThreads: 22 Posts: 5,091 Joined: Oct 18, 07 ♂	Aug 6, 09, 06:18 #101
Eurola: Unfortunately, there are also the "act of God" disasters (Katrina), hail, earthquake..and most of us don't have insurance for that, hoping it never happens. funny how so many religious people did not consider that God can act up sometimes :) (sorry, couldn't help it)

BabinichThreads: 1 Posts: 1,049 Joined: May 26, 08 ♂	Aug 6, 09, 12:05 #102
Eurola: Insurance is never a waste of money. It is your security and a peace of mind. Insurance and not insulation from cost is the way to go.

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Edited by: mvefa Aug 6, 09, 12:33 #103

Funny to see how misinformed some people are about european insurance. They talk only what they've heard somewhere. Like you have to wait 4 months for an appointment, that the doctors are bad, that the gobernment will control what you do, etc etc,

Rubbish! Come here once and find out yourself...If you prefer your money to go to rich share-holders, great for you, but when you are dropped out by your insurances company cause you are too sick...hope you don't complaint...

Lotnik767Threads: 6 Posts: 210 Joined: Nov 12, 08 ♂	Aug 7, 09, 21:48 #104
The thing is that no one wants the government to run the health care! Government running every thing will make USA like Hitler’s Germany! I'm happy now with what I got and I don't need any thing more or less!! I just don't need Government to tell me that when I will be 65 years old, well sir we are sorry but you don't need this medicine or treatment because we don't think you will live long!!

Wroclaw BoyThreads: 56 Posts: 5,267 Joined: Jul 3, 09 MEMBER ♂	Aug 8, 09, 08:39 #105
Lotnik767: Government running every thing will make USA like Hitler’s Germany! Its only a national health service, calm down mate. Seems to work very well in so many countries why should the US be any different. Personally i find it astonishing that the US doesnt have this service.

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Edited by: Babinich Aug 8, 09, 13:24 #106

Wroclaw Boy:

Its only a national health service, calm down mate. Seems to work very well in so many countries why should the US be any different. Personally i find it astonishing that the US doesnt have this service.

Today, the United States has two large government health care programs - Medicare and Medicaid - that do not display the efficiency that Paul Krugman & Robin Wells http://www.nybooks.com/articles/18802 ascribe to single-payer health care systems.

Krugman & Wells point out that other countries use government-financed health care, and that in those countries health care outcomes are not notably worse while spending is less. They would have us believe that people in other countries receive the same treatment at lower cost.

In fact, Americans consume more premium medicine than citizens of other countries. To some extent, this may produce better results that are obscured in the data used to compare health outcomes on a national basis. Longevity, for example, is affected by many factors other than health care.

The main reason that other countries can spend less on health care is that the availability of medical services is limited by government policy. The health care rationing that Krugman and Wells believe is inevitable for the United States takes place today in other countries. Health care rationing is one way to try to cut back on medical procedures that are not cost-effective. However, it would represent a radical change for the American health care consumer.

Obama, Orszag, and the others are pushing a flawed plan...

http://keithhennessey.com/2009/08/03/lynchpin/

A plan that may in fact suppress wages...

http://keithhennessey.com/2009/08/07/lower-wages/

Wroclaw BoyThreads: 56 Posts: 5,267 Joined: Jul 3, 09 MEMBER ♂	Aug 8, 09, 13:34 #107
is it fair to say average Joe yank is apposed to a national health care system in America? It does seem to be the case on here. Babinich: Medicare and Medicaid Big business fcuking up the program in as many ways as they can.

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Edited by: Babinich Aug 8, 09, 13:53 #108

Wroclaw Boy:

Big business fcuking up the program in as many ways as they can.

More like big, bad & stupid government...

Wroclaw Boy,

Singapore seems to have a reasonable system that requires one to take personal responsibility.

the average American wants health care reform, but is conflicted because they are comfortable with their coverage.

Tweaking; not the radical overhaul the gang that can't shoot straight advocate.

nunczkaThreads: 15 Posts: 572 Joined: Sep 13, 08 ♂	Aug 8, 09, 14:20 #109
The Eskimo's have the best system.. When you get old, they put you out of the Igloo to freeze to death and be eaten by polar bears. This is where our health care system is going. The less money spent on health care gives the Politicians more money to steal

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Edited by: Wroclaw Boy Aug 8, 09, 14:25 #110

Babinich:

the average American wants health care reform, but is conflicted because they are comfortable with their coverage.

Indeed its the poor Americans, with no internet access living in trailer park conditions that i worry about. Many Vietnam war veterans among them, what about those tortured souls? Would you deny those guys treatment for drinking and smoking themselves to an early death. 19 year old kids being drafted into a war where they were forced to murder children and unarmed civilians.

Youre good, im sure you have insurance either through work or personal finance. Hillary Clinton tried to take on the big boys and failed, Obama will crack it. I dont care how you dress it up America not having a national health care system is prehistoric regardless of costs.

You can slap lipstick on a pig but its still a pig.

Obama.

BabinichThreads: 1 Posts: 1,049 Joined: May 26, 08 ♂	Aug 8, 09, 18:17 #111
Wroclaw Boy: I dont care how you dress it up America not having a national health care system is prehistoric regardless of costs. Regardless the cost? National Health Care is not efficient and will not even approach mediocrity in this country if implemented.

Wroclaw BoyThreads: 56 Posts: 5,267 Joined: Jul 3, 09 MEMBER ♂	Edited by: Wroclaw Boy Aug 8, 09, 18:20 #112
Babinich: Regardless the cost? National Health Care is not efficient and will not even approach mediocrity in this country if implemented. Well'see. Were you pro Obama?

PlasticPoleThreads: 10 Posts: 5,181 Joined: May 28, 09 ♀	Aug 8, 09, 18:53 #113
The problem in the US is there's too much fraud. People will just find a way to rip off the govt. It could be a good system if the govt stayed on top of it and made waste nearly impossible.

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Aug 8, 09, 19:15 #114

PlasticPole:

The problem in the US is there's too much fraud. People will just find a way to rip off the govt. It could be a good system if the govt stayed on top of it and made waste nearly impossible.

LOL. The Government is the biggest crook in the US. Congress just ordered a couple of Gulf Stream jets for Congressional junkets for $500,000,000.00.. Did you ever hear of Pork Bills. a couple million bucks to save mice in Nancy Pelosi's district.. People are going hungry and they steal money to save mice. GIMME a break! They all belong in jail.

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Edited by: Wroclaw Boy Aug 8, 09, 19:17 #115

PlasticPole:

The problem in the US is there's too much fraud.

Everytime I watch anything American where a hospital is involved, im thinking in the back of my mind does that dude have suitable insurance. They always rush the into A&E like no problem, take a look at House for example, these guys will pay 100's of thousands for a Doctor like him.

PlasticPole:

People will just find a way to rip off the govt. It could be a good system if the govt stayed on top of it and made waste nearly impossible.

and they dont in other countries? come on. The big boys will fish for any excuse they can.

Patrycja19Threads: 76 Posts: 3,877 Joined: Oct 31, 06 ♀	Aug 8, 09, 19:17 #116
PlasticPole: The problem in the US is there's too much fraud. People will just find a way to rip off the govt. It could be a good system if the govt stayed on top of it and made waste nearly impossible. What about those in Govt ripping off the people . two way street there.

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Aug 8, 09, 19:47 #117

nunczka:

LOL. The Government is the biggest crook in the US.

That's what I mean by people "ripping off the govt". Pork bills are rip offs.

Wroclaw Boy:

Everytime I watch anything American where a hospital is involved, im thinking in the back of my mind does that dude have suitable insurance. They always rush the into A&E like no problem, take a look at House for example, these guys will pay 100's of thousands for a Doctor like him.

Lots of people are privately insured, don't be fooled, and insurance in America has done a lot for healthcare. It's not a completely bad deal. Insurance companies help finance better treatment methods and research so people live quality lives. The problem with insurance is, when people get sick they cost more to insure and it becomes a conflict of interest for the carrier. The government can help with this.
Medicaid needs to step in and give the ones who aren't insured access to health care. I'm all for congress lifting the restrictions on medicaid but they will have to commit to funding it.
If we can get private insurers and the govt together on this we could have a great system.

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Edited by: Wroclaw Boy Aug 8, 09, 20:06 #118

Patrycja19:

What about those in Govt ripping off the people

What the ones with interests in Medicare?

PlasticPole:

Lots of people are privately insured, don't be fooled, and insurance in America has done a lot for healthcare. It's not a completely bad deal

If youre covered

I fuckin hate insurance, i believe in insurance for legal liabilities only i.e car insurance. Other than that its just another company making money from me.

Id rather pay tax than insurance, plain and simple.. At least tax money is spent in the best interests of the public and not a 200 million yaucht for some fat cat. Well you know what i mean.

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Aug 8, 09, 21:11 #119

Wroclaw Boy:

Id rather pay tax than insurance, plain and simple.. At least tax money is spent in the best interests of the public and not a 200 million yaucht for some fat cat.

It's not a question of paying taxes or insurance. Besides, the biggest frauds are committed by government bureaucrats who waste at least 40 percent of tax dollars. Without all that government fraud, people's taxes could be lowered, not raised.

As to your class envy (200 million yacht), you must have missed post #154, the one about congress spending for z'Gulf Stream jets for Congressional junkets for $500,000,000.00.."(among many other wasteful spendings). But then, you seem to be an apologist for BigGovernment and therefore you'd make a good drone for some state autocrat.

Wroclaw Boy:

im thinking in the back of my mind does that dude have suitable insurance. They always rush the into A&E like no problem,

No one is turned down service when there is an emergency; ER must take the patient(s) whether insured or not.

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Aug 8, 09, 23:18 #120

Private health care cause that people are more concentrated about their health. The only specialist from who I need to be helped from time to time is a dentist. Of course I need to be helped immediately but they will tell you to wait one month! Of course in the end I prefer private sector. However poor people cannot afford it, because government take their cash to invest into sick public health care.