dual citizenship - US doesn't care if you don't give up Polish passport

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Mar 1, 11, 11:45 #91

Stu:

He argues that people with a double nationality also have a double loyalty and that they don't want to integrate into Dutch society. Therefore he says a double nationality should be banned.

This is the approach that the Japanese take: it is impossible to be a dual national if you have Japanese citizenship. If a child is born to a mixed couple (i.e. one parent isn't Japanese) or born in a country which follows the jus soli principle, that child can hold both passports but at the age of 21 must choose to either keep the Japanese citizenship and give up the other or retain the other. Although with that said, there are some lex sanguinis rights (e.g. right to reside in Japan) which are retained.

Personally I'm much in favour of the rule that if one takes up a new citizenship, one should be required to renounce all claim to any other citizenships one may qualify for. While there are certainly some arguments in favour of lex sanguinis rights, it is clearly not possible for a person to have complete loyalty to more than one nation. Which is why persons who make use of their original nationality after gaining US citizenship will most probably be denied security clearance in the USA, especially if there is a family history of being collaborating traitors.

PennBoyThreads: 157 Posts: 3,443 Joined: Dec 7, 08 ♂	Mar 2, 11, 03:31 #92
grubas: I think you take the whole oath thing too seriously. No intelligent person does take some oath seriously. Everyone knows you'll think of yourself as a Pole.

delphiandomineThreads: 42 Posts: 9,954 Joined: Nov 25, 08 ♂ [Suspended]	Mar 2, 11, 11:56 #93
PennBoy: No intelligent person does take some oath seriously. Everyone knows you'll think of yourself as a Pole. So - you're saying that you treat the oath of citizenship (which is a very serious deal to Americans) as a joke? Nice to see that not only have you betrayed Poland, but you're also disrespecting your host country. Your father really did teach you well!

StuThreads: 27 Posts: 1,109 Joined: Mar 31, 10 ♂	Edited by: Stu Mar 2, 11, 12:14 #94
PennBoy: No intelligent person does take *some* oath seriously Sorry PennBoy, but I think that, when you say it this way, intelligence has less to do with it than trustworthyness. It's like saying "whatever I say or promise, don't count on it". Dubious statement, I'm sorry to say.

delphiandomineThreads: 42 Posts: 9,954 Joined: Nov 25, 08 ♂ [Suspended]	Mar 2, 11, 12:24 #95
Stu: It's like saying "whatever I say or promise, don't count on it". I imagine that his allegiance will change according to the prevailing wind. "Yes sir, you have been drafted to go fight in the jungle against those towel heads" "IM POLISH" "Yes sir, you have been drafted to fight against some Ukrainian insurgency in the mountains" "IM AMERICAN" Treasonous as ****.

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Mar 2, 11, 12:35 #96

What loyal ?
Becoming an American Citizen doesn't erase your previous loyalties and ties, that one is obvious.
For a Pole taking an oath is not distressing because he believes that interests of Poland and U.S. are compatible, or not contradictory.

delphiandomine:

Nice to see that not only have you betrayed Poland, but you're also disrespecting your host country. Your father really did teach you well!

You really have a boring live delp ! Do you really live in Poland? where about ?

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Mar 2, 11, 14:46 #97

Ironside:

Becoming an American Citizen doesn't erase your previous loyalties and ties, that one is obvious.

Actually, the bit where a would-be US citizen says "I absolutely and entirely renounce and abjure all allegiance and fidelity to any foreign prince, potentate, state, or sovereignty of whom or which I have heretofore been a subject or citizen;" very much does erase your previous loyalities.

Ironside:

Do you really live in Poland? where about ?

Poznan. I know offline somebody who knows Delph offline.

PennBoy:

No intelligent person does take some oath seriously.

So you mean to say that you are not a traitor and your excuse for not being one is that you are not intelligent enough to be be one. Interesting.

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Mar 2, 11, 15:33 #98

Harry:

very much does erase your previous loyalities.

So, explain to me how does it works ?You have an lifetime as a Pole and then you are granted citizenship of U.S., well you says an oath, you may even mean it, but it doesn't change the way you think, not for a most of peeps!
Are you saying that after an oath you are brainwashed?
Anyway there is seldom a issue which would test loyalties of a Pole- American Citizen!

HarryThreads: 62 Posts: 8,508 Joined: May 2, 07 ♂ [Suspended]	Mar 2, 11, 16:02 #99
Ironside: So, explain to me how does it works ? It means that you have absolutely and entirely renounced and abjured all allegiance and fidelity to Poland, i.e. exactly what it says. Ironside: Anyway there is seldom a issue which would test loyalties of a Pole- American Citizen! Apart from the 44 years quite recently when Poland and the USA were on opposite sides in a cold war....

f stopThreads: 33 Posts: 2,861 Joined: Dec 9, 09 ♀	Edited by: f stop Mar 4, 11, 03:49 #100
I don't think the possibility of US and Poland in armed conflict is eminent. But, to some people, their word is still one of the most valuable asset they have, and swearing an oath like that should give them some food for thought.

f stopThreads: 33 Posts: 2,861 Joined: Dec 9, 09 ♀	Mar 4, 11, 04:32 #101
imminent, dammit

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Mar 30, 11, 14:18 #102

I have dual citizenship and I am loyal to both countries. The only time that it might be an issue is if one country declares war on another, which then involves other countries. Like the 1st or 2nd world war or what is happening in the middle east. Then having citizenship from a country like that might cause you issues.
There are plenty of people in the U.S. and elsewhere that have dual and be loyal to the country they live in without having to give up their citizenship from the country of their birth.

plk123Threads: 30 Posts: 6,412 Joined: Aug 29, 07 ♂	Apr 2, 11, 10:56 #103
f stop: Right? Wouldn't be nice if they'd revise it? I would not mind swearing that I'll do my best to represent it well, protect it... I would not mind that at all. But to swear that I give up all allegiance to Poland? That's harsh. so, do you want to be American or not? if you want to stay aligned to PL then you may stay as Polish citizen.. this isn't really all that hard of a decision..

f stopThreads: 33 Posts: 2,861 Joined: Dec 9, 09 ♀	Edited by: f stop Apr 4, 11, 05:33 #104
plk123: so, do you want to be American or not? That oath does bother me a bit. I'm no fool, if the advantages far outweigh the cons, I'll be lining up for the US citizenship. But, as it is, some of American policies do bug me, and I like traveling on Polish passport... so I can live with the status quo a little longer.

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