expat Poles swearing allegiance to the US

Wroclaw BoyThreads: 57 Posts: 5,478 Joined: Jul 3, 09 MEMBER ♂	Dec 14, 10, 21:59 #1
For Poles or any other immigrants who emigrated to the US how did you feel swearing allegiance to the US?

Marynka11Threads: 8 Posts: 1,447 Joined: Nov 3, 10 ♀	Dec 14, 10, 22:00 #2
Like a traitor. Honestly.

Wroclaw BoyThreads: 57 Posts: 5,478 Joined: Jul 3, 09 MEMBER ♂	Edited by: Wroclaw Boy Dec 14, 10, 22:16 #3
Marynka11: Like a traitor. Honestly. I'm sorry - Marynka did you go through that? thank you for the reply. I think the whole process is absurd really, totally outdated. Ive had people ask me here where my allegiance lays, for me thats just nuts.

delphiandomineThreads: 42 Posts: 9,954 Joined: Nov 25, 08 ♂ [Suspended]	Dec 14, 10, 22:18 #4
Wroclaw Boy: For Poles or any other immigrants who emigrated to the US how did you feel swearing allegiance to the US? Very interesting question!

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Dec 14, 10, 22:28 #5

Doesn't it depend on who one is swearing allegiance to? One could feel like a traitor swearing allegiance to the captive nation known as the PRL, whether serving in its Soviet-controlled armed forces, accepting awards and distinctions from its Soviet flunkeys or even obediently marching in compulsory Mayday parades. But it is an honour to swear allegiance to the land of the free and home of the brave. Just as the sun once never set on the global realm mercilessly explotied by the Brits, so too America is now holding up the banner of freedom all round the globe. It is now unquestionably the USA that is implementing in practice the age-old Polish motto: 'For your freedom and ours'!

ZedThreads: - Posts: 304 Joined: May 25, 10 ♂	Dec 14, 10, 22:31 #6
I agree with Pol3. There is nothing wrong with that, when it comes to the great U of A :-). Especially as they let you keep your polish passport in your pocket.

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Edited by: delphiandomine Dec 14, 10, 22:31 #7

Polonius3:

One could feel like a traitor swearing allegiance to the captive nation known as the PRL, whether serving in its Soviet-controlled armed forces, accepting awards and distinctions from its Soviet flunkeys or even obediently marching in compulsory Mayday parades.

Then the logical thing to do would be to reside in the UK, where the Polish Government-in-Exile was based and to follow its leadership (while not swearing allegiance to the UK). Certainly, there was no need to swear allegiance to the USA.

Polonius3:

But it is an honour to swear allegiance to the land of the free and home of the brave. Just as the sun once never set on the global realm mercilessly explotied by the Brits, so too America is now holding up the banner of freedom all round the globe. It is now unquestionably the USA that is implementing in practice the age-old Polish motto: 'For your freedom and ours'!

An honour to betray your nation by swearing allegiance to a foreign power? That's a new one for me.

CrowThreads: 367 Posts: 7,316 Joined: Feb 14, 07 ♂ [Suspended]	Edited by: Crow Dec 14, 10, 22:37 #8
expat Poles swearing allegiance to the US - how did you feel? i don`t blame them. Swearing to the foreigners is Slavic destine. One can live even in Poland or Serbia and still be sworn to foreigners. Didn`t we all abandoned our old Gods and spirits, after all? Only first time was difficult. Later, treachery became our destine. We learned to live with it

pgtxThreads: 49 Posts: 6,327 Joined: Feb 14, 09 MEMBER ♀	Dec 14, 10, 22:38 #9
Wroclaw Boy: how did you feel swearing allegiance to the US? i'll get back to you when i do that....

SeanusThreads: 22 Posts: 30,158 Joined: Dec 25, 07 ♂	Dec 14, 10, 22:44 #10
The US has that pull on people. They make it a glorious Godsend to be an American and make everything else appear lame by comparison. It's all in the sell! We may dislike what our own countries do in some respects but it should never change our closeness to our roots.

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Dec 14, 10, 22:44 #11

American school children swear allegiance to the USA everyday at school: They rise and with hand over heart they say: 'I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America: one nation, under God with liberty and justice for all.'
P.S. As you can well imagine, all the atheist and agnostic nutters have been trying to have the 'under God' removed from the pledge. Funny though, they are not willing to turn in their greenbacks (dollars) even though they have 'In God we trust' conspicuously printed thereon.

SeanBMThreads: 41 Posts: 8,727 Joined: Mar 10, 08 ♂	Edited by: SeanBM Dec 14, 10, 22:50 #12
Polonius3: all the atheist and agnostic nutters have been trying to have the 'under God' removed from the pledge. You mean to restore the original Pledge of Allegiance before the religious nuts changed it

Marek11111Threads: 49 Posts: 1,955 Joined: Aug 6, 09 ♂	Dec 14, 10, 22:54 #13
The pledge is like brain washing like you praying to god it’s plain old brain washing and the under god has been added in 1954 so I said the pledge it did nothing to me as I do not think god exist, people just do it but not mean it just blab la bla crap you had to do to get by.

MEMBER ♂

Edited by: Wroclaw Boy Dec 14, 10, 23:09 #14

Marek11111:

The pledge is like brain washing like you praying to god it’s plain old brain washing

As i read through the thread this is what i was thinking and what i was going to post, as it happens you did it for me.

Its almost like citizens are getting down on their knees and thanking America for the very fact that they are there, hypocrisy of the highest order.

Seanus:

They make it a glorious Godsend to be an American and make everything else appear lame by comparison. It's all in the sell!

Indeed.

Polonius3:

Just as the sun once never set on the global realm mercilessly explotied by the Brits, so too America is now holding up the banner of freedom all round the globe.

Shut up idiot.

Polonius3:

American school children swear allegiance to the USA everyday at school: They rise and with hand over heart they say: 'I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America: one nation, under God with liberty and justice for all.'

If that isnt brainwashing i dont know what is.

delphiandomine:

Very interesting question!

With all due respect please dont turn this thread into another one of your Polish / American disputes.

MEMBER ♀

Dec 14, 10, 23:14 #15

Wroclaw Boy:

As i read through the thread this is what i was thinking and what i was going to post, as it happens you did it for me.

Its almost like citizens are getting down on their knees and thanking America for the very fact that they are there, hypocrisy of the highest order.

i think that many people take it as they have to do it for formal reasons... unlike Americans, they are just used to that...

MEMBER ♂

Dec 14, 10, 23:18 #16

pgtx:

i think that many people take it as they have to do it for formal reasons... unlike Americans, they are just used to that...

Well yeh and after a while their hammered with the same old shite that the rest of them are, i couldnt believe the crap they spouted on the news when i lived there. It was the outbreak of the Gulf War II, every friggen game a of golf i played the yanks all said the same thing.

Resident Grubas

Dec 14, 10, 23:18 #17

Wroclaw Boy:

I think the whole process is absurd really, totally outdated. Ive had people ask me here where my allegiance lays, for me thats just nuts.

It is nuts.To me swearing allegiance to ANY country is simply an absurd.It's words nothing more,if I have to do it to reach my goals I will but I don't feel bounded at all.Fock this countries thing,no country ever gave me anything rather try to take away fruits of my work (thru all kinds of taxes and stuff).So I am not going to bother myself with loyality to any country.Resident Grubas is only loyal to his family and friends.

Pinching PeteThreads: 1 Posts: 1,111 Joined: Feb 23, 08 ♂	Edited by: Pinching Pete Dec 14, 10, 23:21 #18
Wroclaw Boy: If that isnt brainwashing i dont know what is. <Shrugs> It's just a saying not some bloody Satanic ritual.. If ya don't like it, f**k off to where you came from. We've got enough a.ss wipes here who should have been made to show some allegience.

MEMBER ♂

Edited by: Wroclaw Boy Dec 14, 10, 23:24 #19

This world insists that allegiances lay in ones own pocket, that's it, hook line and sinker.

Resident Grubas:

So I am not going to bother myself with loyality to any country.

Thats the thing resident grab a$$, and that point will inevitably reign supreme.

Pinching Pete:

<Shrugs> It's just a saying not some bloody Satanic ritual..

As he plays it down.

Its a ritual, its not a good thing, Arabs have similar and we bash them for it. Come on.

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Dec 14, 10, 23:39 #20

Wroclaw Boy:

Doesn't it depend on who one is swearing allegiance to? One could feel like a traitor swearing allegiance to the captive nation known as the PRL

Why would you swear allegiance to a country you don't support? Is there a way to force a person to swear allegiance?

I felt like a traitor towards both countries taking the pledge. I didn't read the text before the ceremony, and the moment the person leading the ceremony got to the part that you renounce your fidelity to the country you've been a member before I felt like a cheat, but towards both, Poland and he USA. I will always have patriotic feelings towards Poland. It's in my blood. I will always respect the US for letting me become a full fledged citizen. It's like a trust thing, I felt the country had enough trust in me to let me become a part of it, jet I'm not 100% in it with my heart and soul.

MEMBER ♂

Edited by: Havok Dec 14, 10, 23:49 #21

It was an honor and a pleasure and I'm proud to be a part of this nation. I fought for this country and I took the oath in the service and I would do it again.

I'm not embarrassed of swearing allegiance to the US and I have no regrets. It’s my home, my family and friends.

Give me one reason why I should feel different about it.

It’s a really silly question anyways. Just because you’re miserable in your own country it doesn’t mean that I have to be miserable living in mine.

"I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America, and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all."

MEMBER ♂

Edited by: Wroclaw Boy Dec 14, 10, 23:57 #22

Havok:

It’s my home, my family and friends.

Thats fair enough mate but you are a child of this earth, it is your right to live on it, and your family and friends.

Havok:

Give me one reason why I should feel different about it.

Its just a section of a planet.

Havok:

It’s a really silly question anyways. Just because you’re miserable in your own country it doesn’t mean that I have to be miserable living in mine.

Thats not really the issue here, miserable i mean its about equality.

Havok:

"I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America, and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all."

Another successfully brain washed citizen, job done by the powers that be. You'd totally kill for your country wouldnt you? regardless of whats morally right..

Patriotism gets me every time, the right to feel superior based on the lottery that is ones place of birth, or in the case of many American's - an adopted country.

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Dec 15, 10, 00:18 #23

"I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America, and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all."
This is the stupid sentence just look what is going around in united states just look you pledging to something that is dead “a flag “and nonexistent a “ republic oh and god “ and “ the liberty and justice for all” that is the biggest f**** joke ever if you rich you can kill still and if you in gov. you can lie still kill and be above the law, who ever believe in this crap is a fool.

nunczkaThreads: 17 Posts: 624 Joined: Sep 13, 08 ♂	Dec 15, 10, 00:28 #24
Its very simple. If one comes to America and does not support it.. No big deal.. Get the hell out.

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Dec 15, 10, 00:33 #25

Sure America makes mistakes -- to err is human -- and there have been abuses of power. But the USA certainly has no monopoly on that one. But name anotehr global power in hte course of human history that has been so humane, altruistic and benevolent, spreading the spriit of freedom and democacy far and wide. With th power it wielded, it could have easily conquered half the globe the way the Brits, Frogs and Russians did... Anyone who cannot see the difference between Pax Americana, and Pax Brittanica is a fool.

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Edited by: Wroclaw Boy Dec 15, 10, 00:36 #26

nunczka:

Its very simple. If one comes to America and does not support it.. No big deal.. Get the hell out.

I was under the impression they just blag the allegiance, get the hell out doesnt really work in principle does it.

Polonius3:

But name anotehr global power in hte course of human history that has been so humane, altruistic and benevolent, spreading the spriit of freedom and democacy far and wide.

Ohh what a good little expat you are P3, its soooo obvious youre over 45 years old.

Going to war with the North Vietnamese, i have respect for Kennedy but jeeze he done fcuked up with dat one.

TrevekThreads: 33 Posts: 2,155 Joined: May 21, 08 ♂	Edited by: Trevek Dec 15, 10, 00:57 #27
Marynka11: Like a traitor. Honestly. I'm not asking this as a challenge or judgement, but why did you pledge allegiance? Wroclaw Boy: If that isnt brainwashing i dont know what is. Certainly not Polish kids parading with flags on national holidays... Come on, where do you draw the line at patriotism and brainwashing?

PennBoyThreads: 157 Posts: 3,443 Joined: Dec 7, 08 ♂	Dec 15, 10, 00:57 #28
Wroclaw Boy: expat Poles swearing allegiance to the US - how did you feel? Since i've got dual citizenship now i feel like i belong in both countries.

MEMBER ♂

Edited by: Wroclaw Boy Dec 15, 10, 00:59 #29

Trevek:

but why did you pledge allegiance?

Its the road to a green card, the final stage - after that youre a US citizen.

PennBoy:

Since i've got dual citizenship now i feel like i belong in both countries.

Id like the opportunity to live in the USA and Canada without all the bull shite.

You have the best of both worlds, must be nice. Id like to emigrate to Western Canada, but the visa issues - dude its complicated and bloody expensive for me.

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Edited by: Trevek Dec 15, 10, 01:06 #30

nunczka:

Its very simple. If one comes to America and does not support it.. No big deal.. Get the hell out.

Franek will have a heart attack when he reads this... but I agree with him.

I am tired of hearing things in UK like, "You can't fly that Union Flag or that Cross of Saint George because they are racist and might offend immigrants!" (yes, I've been told that!).

Sorry, if immigrants want to come to my country, fine, but they should accept that people died for that flag which they are coming to live under. Presumably they are coming to live there because they value something about that land... then why should they feel threatened by the flag?

PennBoy:

Since i've got dual citizenship now i feel like i belong in both countries.

does Poland recognise dual citizenship? (genuine question)

Wroclaw Boy:

Its the road to a green card, the final stage - after that youre a US citizen.

I see. Thank you.

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expat Poles swearing allegiance to the US - how did you feel?