What do Poles think about drinking raw milk? In America, unpasteurized milk is PROHIBITED.

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May 1, 11, 06:35 #1

I can tell I've been drinking raw milk in Poland since day one and I'm still alive. All my friends did too.

But in the USA "the government" claims raw milk can poison you or kill you. They have prohibited drinking raw milk and want to prison farmers for selling such milk. I mean, really? In the country of freedom you are banned from drinking what you feel like drinking, like milk...? I'd say Poles are a living proof drinking unpasteurized milk is as healthy as it can be. Any comments?

A yearlong sting operation, including aliases, a 5 a.m. surprise inspection and surreptitious purchases from an Amish farm in Pennsylvania, culminated in the federal government announcing this week that it has gone to court to stop Rainbow Acres Farm from selling its contraband to willing customers in the Washington area.

The product in question: unpasteurized milk.

It is the FDA’s position that raw milk should never be consumed.

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2011/apr/28/feds-sting-amish-farme r-selling-raw-milk-locally/

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May 1, 11, 07:14 #2

It is not actually that easy to find raw milk in the cities. Recently they have introduced mlekomats with fresh milk though, and it is so much tastier than the regular crap you buy in the shop.
From my experience in wroclaw the majority of people use uht milk.

It may be a different story in the villages though.

The prohibition of raw milk is ridiculous as it limits for example the ability of cheese makers to make the most of their product.

Patrycja19Threads: 79 Posts: 3,974 Joined: Oct 31, 06 ♀	May 1, 11, 07:19 #3
Tlum: I can tell I've been drinking raw milk in Poland since day one and I'm still alive. All my friends did too. well disease passes from the animal to the human thru excretions.. cows milk is a excretion you might be still alive, but you are going to be a mad cow sooner or later.. :)

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May 1, 11, 09:12 #4

Some diseases pass from some animals to humans.
Yes you can get sick from bad milk, just the same as you can get sick from tens of thousands of other things.

Print a warning on the label and be done with it. If people are educated as to the risks they can make their own decisions and eat or not eat.

I don't see cigarettes and alcohol removed from the shops, and they are guaranteed to harm you.

There are many ways for food to become inedible and poisonous before it reaches our plate but that doesn't mean we have to ban every food item around 'just in case'.

alexw68

May 1, 11, 09:50 #5

Patrycja19:

well disease passes from the animal to the human thru excretions.. cows milk is a excretion

No, it's a secretion.

Also raw milk contains bacteria helpful to the gut. I wonder if there's a connection between UHT and the rise of dairy-related allergies to be honest.

At bottom, the question is logistical really, isn't it? FDA is dealing with a situation where distance from cow to market is measured in hundreds if not thousands of miles. The supply chain in Europe is generally more local.

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May 1, 11, 10:22 #6

I buy unpasteurised, unhomogenised milk from the farmer's market, it's much healthier for you, 'treated' milk loses a lot of it's calcium content. It also tastes a damn site better. I was brought up on natural milk, brought home in the jug from a cousin's farm and we had our own untreated goats milk.

alexw68:

Also raw milk contains bacteria helpful to the gut. I wonder if there's a connection between UHT and the rise of dairy-related allergies to be honest.

Interesting, I have no allergies at all what soever, maybe that's why.

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Edited by: Torq May 1, 11, 10:47 #7

Tlum:

But in the USA "the government" claims raw milk can poison you or kill you.

LOL

Looks like governments are comprised of retards not only in Poland.

I guess, according to them, people were dying by millions, before the industrial process of turning
milk into a milk-like white liquid was invented :)

My family drinks only raw milk that we get from a local farmer. We also make butter and cream cheese
using that milk - delicious stuff! Those who think that the liquid sold in shops under the name of "milk"
is better than the real thing, should try making cottage cheese or butter out of it LOL That would be
an eye opener for them :)

Daisy:

Interesting, I have no allergies at all what soever

Same here. That's what REAL milk does for you :)

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May 1, 11, 10:53 #8

Raw milk is actually better for you, but you have to have healthy animals. It is easier for the FDA to allow questionable practices for dairies, and just cook the milk to kill germs.

Better to have healthy cows, healthy milk, and no need to pasteurize.

Or, I agree, tell people of the risks and make an informed decision. Good point about the things that are legal and can definitely harm you.

Years ago, I bought raw goat's milk from a farm. I did not know it was illegal now to buy your own raw milk.

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Edited by: ukpolska May 1, 11, 11:14 #9

I was raised on a dairy farm in the UK and drunk it until I was 18 when I went to University, and every opportunity I would take some back to Uni.... I have lived in Poland now for 12 years and drink nothing else but milk from my father-in-laws dairy farm as he has won awards for the milk from his cows.
You just cannot compare pasteurised milk with fresh milk as fresh milk retains certain essential elements.

- Vitamin A is destroyed in the pasteurisation process
- Pasteurisation of milk destroys about 38% of the vitamin B complex
- Vitamin C is weakened or destroyed by pasteurization
- After pasteurization the total of soluble calcium is very much diminished
all of the above data was taken from a lesson with professors from the National Veterinary Institute, here in Pulawy

Also my father-in-law has to stick to strict hygiene controls to maintain a high premium for his milk which includes:

All dairy cows in a certified milking are vaccinated for brucellosis
Each cow is blood tested for brucellosis before entering the milking herd and then certified
All milk is tested each time it is picked up by the tanker and there are heavy fines for contaminates
A Ministry Veterinary Health Inspector visits the dairy heard at least once a month

So you see there strict controls on commercial dairy herds in Poland; however, I would NEVER purchase milk from the people who sell them in water bottles at the markets and you should only purchase it from sources that you know personally.

SeanusThreads: 22 Posts: 30,158 Joined: Dec 25, 07 ♂	May 1, 11, 13:18 #10
My answer would be that milk is designed to be drunk quickly anyway, much faster than beer which is unpasteurised at times too (Kasztelan). I would have no qualms about drinking it in that fashion. Heck, I've eaten raw fish. The stomach can take a lot if not overly sensitive.

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May 1, 11, 20:00 #11

I also was brought up on fresh milk and its home made products: cheese, butter, sour milk etc. I was healthy then and I'm healthy now. The cows were fed on grass from spring to fall and hey during the winter, and they had yearly shots. I've never had allergies then or now. Unfortunately, I am stuck with store bought milk and the best I can do is buy pasteurized organic. I wish there was a farm i could buy it from but no such option. I can understand why the milk has to be pasteurized coming from remote locations and taking days to the grocery stores shelf. I would not have it any other way.

Patrycja19Threads: 79 Posts: 3,974 Joined: Oct 31, 06 ♀	May 1, 11, 20:16 #12
alexw68: No, it's a secretion. yeah thats what I meant.. lol thats what I get for being tired. Softsong: Or, I agree, tell people of the risks and make an informed decision. Good point about the things that are legal and can definitely harm you. agree.

PennBoyThreads: 157 Posts: 3,443 Joined: Dec 7, 08 ♂	May 1, 11, 20:36 #13
Tlum: What do Poles think about drinking raw milk? I remember drinking it all the time as a child in Poland never got sick, actually tastes better and actually contains calcium when straight from the cow, not that store crap.

MEMBER ♀

Edited by: beckski May 1, 11, 21:07 #14

Tlum:

In America, unpasteurized milk is PROHIBITED.

There have been court cases in Riverside, California concerning the selling or raw cow's milk.
The Riverside County Health Dept filed a lawsuit against a local rancher. He was in the habit of having parties on his ranch. He'd sell shots of raw milk, with beverages containing alcohol.

As a result, his fiestas landed him numerous court appearances. He also incurred tens of thousands of dollars owed in court fines.

A sincere thanks PF, for putting up with me FIVE terrific years, muah!

pawianThreads: 90 Posts: 5,415 Joined: May 30, 08 ♂	May 1, 11, 23:41 #15
Tlum: What do Poles think about drinking raw milk? I love drinking milk straight from the cow, warm and foamy. Unfortunately, it happens once in a blue moon now.

BBmanThreads: - Posts: 459 Joined: Jan 4, 11 ♂	May 1, 11, 23:51 #16
Drinking raw milk is quite common in rural areas in Poland. I always drank this way when i left the city on weekends, loved it. Eggs from chicken that are free to run around in an outdoor pen are popular too.

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May 2, 11, 04:15 #17

Tlum:

But in the USA "the government" claims raw milk can poison you or kill you. They have prohibited drinking raw milk and want to prison farmers for selling such milk. I mean, really? In the country of freedom you are banned from drinking what you feel like drinking, like milk...? I'd say Poles are a living proof drinking unpasteurized milk is as healthy as it can be. Any comments?

You are correct in the US (and Canadian) governments' approach to raw milk. I will not exaggerate when I say that in North America is is safer and easier to get hold of a pound of marijuana or AK47 than of a gallon or raw milk. In some jurisdictions (B.C) they even have legislations deeming raw milk as a hazardous product.

One Canadian farmer found a way around the red tape not by selling raw milk but by selling shares in a cow. The scheme was simple. You buy a part of a live cow and thus you have the right to milk it and use the product (but not to sell). His farm was literally attacked by militarized police detachment in an action one sees sometimes in movies where they take down some big drug dealer. This fella won the court case but raw milk still cannot be sold in Canada. This is protecting big industry from the competition of small farmers that have been around for thousands of years. Sounds like a conspiracy theory, sadly it's not.

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May 2, 11, 06:18 #18

Tlum millions people like me grew up on raw milk in Poland and in United Fascist States is all about control is to tell people what they can do what they can eat it is all in preparation to implement police state, just like the new TSA molestation of kids is it going to prevent some thing if you put hands in people pants? and there is a law on books to put labels on food products the country of origin but the legislation is ignored and the financial bill is ignored as well see the control for people but not for corporations or banks it is like they want you the people to know who is the boss ans some people like guesswho on this forum is praising how good the United Fascist States are.

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May 2, 11, 09:07 #19

Patrycja19:

Tlum:
I can tell I've been drinking raw milk in Poland since day one and I'm still alive. All my friends did too.

well disease passes from the animal to the human thru excretions.. cows milk is a excretion

you might be still alive, but you are going to be a mad cow sooner or later.. :)

I am not sure but AFAIK UHT treatment does not kill prions which are responsible for mad cow disease (prions are not even organisms if i recall correctly)

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Jun 10, 11, 12:48 #20

Merged: straight-from-the-cow milk?

Slot machines offering unpasteurised milk have apperared in some Warsaw shopping areas, one outside the Carrefour off Marymoncka street. You can take it in your own bottle brought from home or new litre bottles are available for 2 zł from another slot machine next to it. It goes sour and clabbers after a day, as it contains no anti-clabbering chemicals. Has anyone tried it?

NickidewbearThreads: 4 Posts: 88 Joined: Sep 17, 09 ♀	Aug 21, 11, 05:51 #21
Unpasturized milk isn't prohibited for private use and consumption-- i.e., if you own a farm, diary, etc. and drink the milk yourself. I unfortunately have an acquaintance who drinks unpasturized milk.

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Aug 21, 11, 15:51 #22

Unpasturized milk isn't prohibited for private use and consumption-- i.e., if you own a farm, diary, etc. and drink the milk yourself. I unfortunately have an acquaintance who drinks unpasturized milk.

and what about unpasteurized beer? This is popular in Poland too. there is no need to pasteurized- dairy corporations do this to ensure the milk is germ and bacteria free. If it is produced in a facility that ensures food safety there is no problem.

f stopThreads: 33 Posts: 2,861 Joined: Dec 9, 09 ♀	Aug 21, 11, 19:02 #23
Many Poles first thing they did with fresh milk is bring it almost to the point of boiling, anyway. That's the home pasturazation, no? Why do they do that?

sobieskiThreads: 82 Posts: 1,143 Joined: Jun 1, 08 ♂	Aug 21, 11, 21:12 #24
one outside the Carrefour off Marymoncka street. Care to elaborate? I am living in Bielany for over 7 years, around the corner from Marymoncka...There is no Carrefour there. And a "mlekomat" would be the story of the day in the local papers. That said and done... what is wrong with milk straight from a cow? Surely much healthier than any KFC/McDo product.

ZIMMYThreads: 10 Posts: 2,353 Joined: Feb 21, 09 ♂	Aug 22, 11, 07:39 #25
I love drinking milk straight from the cow, That is udder-ly disgusting.

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Aug 22, 11, 09:19 #26

Care to elaborate? I am living in Bielany for over 7 years, around the corner from Marymoncka...There is no Carrefour there. And a "mlekomat" would be the story of the day in the local papers.
That said and done... what is wrong with milk straight from a cow? Surely much healthier than any KFC/McDo product.

look at this www.dojone.pl

it should give you the information you are looking for.

as for drinking milk straight from the cow---it goes through a filtering process to get rid of stuff that shouldn't be there. The reason milk is pasteurized in the dairy corporations is because it is made in huge batches and full of hormones. They need to do it. If you buy quality over quantity you will taste the difference.

f stopThreads: 33 Posts: 2,861 Joined: Dec 9, 09 ♀	Aug 22, 11, 14:51 #27
Salmonella, E. coli, and Listeria

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Aug 22, 11, 15:13 #28

Milk is an excellent food for infant mammals.

Stop drinking it when you leave infancy - you'll use less toilet paper as well!
Anyway - ever heard of IGF-1? Great for making things grow.

Fortunately, there are govt regulations to curb excesses - did you know there are recommended pus levels in milk?

I'm no anti-milk freak - don't get me wrong. I just don't think that the American obsession with overdoing milk is healthy. People should have a reasonably broad-based diet.

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Aug 22, 11, 15:21 #29

I just don't think that the American obsession with overdoing milk is healthy.

but this is entirely the problem. there is mass production of genetically modified milk and the gov't is telling you that you need to drink it and it has to be pasteurized. look at the advertising...beautiful people with milk mustaches asking the question "got milk?" farming is no longer farming. it is a genetic experiment and disgusting. In Poland the farmers refused to adapt these practices so the dairy and meats are still not altered....yet.

if you drink unpasteurized milk in the us or canada(or u.k. or germany)- you are risking your life. In Poland it is still possible to drink it.

f stopThreads: 33 Posts: 2,861 Joined: Dec 9, 09 ♀	Edited by: f stop Aug 23, 11, 00:55 #30
I think the fresh, body temperature milk straight from the cow is truly gross. And I should know - until I was 6, my grandma would wake me up at dawn every day and would not let me go back to sleep until I drank a full glass of that warm, gnój smelling body fluid.

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