PolishForums.com
POLAND . The Unofficial Guide.
Unanswered | Archives
Poland for Expats and Tourists Witamy, Guest | PF Members | Gold Members

Polish Forums / Polonia - USA, Canada / Post reply Start a new thread in [Polonia - USA, Canada]

Texas can leave the union if it wants to...


page 3 of 6:  « Prev  1  2  3  4  5  6  Next »

lesserThreads: 7
Posts: 2,014
Joined: Oct 19, 07
 Apr 22, 09, 19:24    #61
Seanus:
Well, yes they are but that isn't the point. My point was clear, suit-me suit-me ways are not gonna curry favour and, IMHO, makes them look stupid and childish.

Would you abandon your long-time business partners if you see that they don't bother much any more, despite your warnings? Of course.

We can discuss whether this particular situation is caused by leadership of Republican party or perhaps this is something more. However, this is matter of interest of citizens. I understand well that they cannot afford socialism.

Wahldo:
Well I don't know if you can equate the EU with the US that much in this regard. I know you hate the EU but a state like Texas has gained quite a bit from being in the US. Road construction, schools , huge harbors for shipping. They can't just jump out , jump in like some damn hokey-pokey dance.

You don't know but in the same time chose the same line as them (the EU). According to pro-EU crowds this is absolutely impossible to achieve anything decent without the EU. However reality is different and many states outside of the EU or the US already have decent roads and etc. While I think that Texas don't belong to poor states, rather opposite. If so this means that Texan taxpayers in fact sponsor other states, their land would be in better shape if they would invest everything at home. After all budget of central government consist from shares from different states.

Wahldo:
Let me put it this way: Ma³opolskie wants to go its own way, how about Lubuskie are you just going to let it happen? You would not object one bit? Yes you would because Poland as whole has invested in those places.

Of course Lubuskie would be against such outcome because they consume cash of taxpayers from Maloposkie. Everything depends from their motivation, if reasonable in opposition to central government policy then I could hardly blame them. Sorry but people cannot let politicians to be treated like trash in the name of 'patriotism'.

As far as investments are concentrated, you know this is question of so called 'public property'. Public property is owned by nobody, so nobody cares. Of course if I would be king of Poland and this would be my private property, then I would never let them go.

Wahldo:
Well you see they blame Obama for spending this money but offer no counter plan whatsoever.

The problem was caused by state interventionism and cannot be solved by state interventionism. Badly managed companies including banks must bankrupt. Obviously neither Democrats or Republicans will subside such companies because this is their political background.


JohnP:
It was a war in which propaganda played a huge part, and is even believed today. Many Americans, even, believe that the war was fought over slavery....it wasn't

Well said, this confirm my point.

osiol:
However, the threat of secession

Why threat? Threat to whom?



osiolThreads: 59
Posts: 4,714
Joined: Jul 25, 07
 Apr 22, 09, 20:24    #62
lesser:
Why threat? Threat to whom?

What Seanus said about the bark being harsher than the bite.

Texas seems not to be in the top list of wealthiest states, but may well have a good economy of its own whereas other rich states would be more dependent on eachother.


F15guyThreads: 1
Posts: 230
Joined: Jan 14, 08
Edited by: F15guy  Apr 22, 09, 20:48    #63
mafketis:
Then the union is tyranny.

All governments are tyrants. Some less than others.

The War of Northern Agression determined the union to be indisolvable. That was 1865. Also, there has a Supreme Court decision that Texas can't leave.

It is possible the states could call a convention and propose an admendment to the U.S. Constitution that would allow secession. If passed, it would be legal.

Interestingly, Quebec lost its taste for secession from Canada when the US said they would not automatically be part of NAFTA since the agreement was between Canada, Mexico and the US.

Kudos to the Czechs and Slovaks for working out peaceful divorce. Can Belgium if they can't resolve their differnces?


HatefulBunch397Threads: -
Posts: 1,018
Joined: Nov 5, 08
 Apr 23, 09, 05:54    #64
The "confederate" states can leave but we all know what will happen if they do.


dcchrisThreads: 11
Posts: 687
Joined: Oct 29, 07
 Apr 23, 09, 13:32    #65
HatefulBunch397:
what will happen

hmm the french will blockade the naval force of the south so the north can win? haha


SeanusThreads: 22
Posts: 30,160
Joined: Dec 25, 07
 Apr 23, 09, 13:42    #66
Well lesser, you have a point as always but try to see the bigger picture here. A perennial thorn in the side of Texans is border patrol. I'd like to see what Texans think about dipping into their own pockets to finance sweeping measures designed to combat this problem.

On a different note, Texans provide a unique cultural dimension to America. I remember when I was a wee toot of a lad and there was much talk of Texas and Texans.


SamenessLoveThreads: 1
Posts: 49
Joined: Apr 24, 09
 Apr 24, 09, 05:31    #67
Wahldo:
Another genius.. ever heard of the civil war? It's illegal to leave the union.

The United States was founded on the principle of secession. Ever heard of the Declaration of Independence? Lincoln was simply wrong in attacking the south and keeping the Union together. His war was a war of aggression. Secession is not only constitutional, it is a natural right.


dcchrisThreads: 11
Posts: 687
Joined: Oct 29, 07
 Apr 24, 09, 15:11    #68
SamenessLove:
Secession is not only constitutional, it is a natural right.

SamenessLove:
The United States

Is it just me or does anybody else see a contradiction in this arguement?


SvenskiThreads: 3
Posts: 212
Joined: Mar 20, 08
 Apr 24, 09, 17:28    #69
I don't think Texas will ever actually secede.. all this talk is just that.. talk.


lesserThreads: 7
Posts: 2,014
Joined: Oct 19, 07
 Apr 24, 09, 17:45    #70
Interesting note:
Happy Secession Day
Jefferson defended the right of secession in his first inaugural address by declaring, "If there be any among us who would wish to dissolve this Union or to change its republican form, let them stand undisturbed as monuments of the safety with which error of opinion may be tolerated where reason is left to combat it." (In sharp contrast, in his first inaugural address, Lincoln promised an "invasion" with massive "bloodshed" (his words) of any state that failed to collect the newly-doubled federal tariff rate by seceding from the union).


Wahldo  Apr 24, 09, 18:10    #71
SamenessLove:
Secession is not only constitutional, it is a natural right.

Well, when you do secede be sure and pay back the US taxpayer for all the investments we've made into your state because that sure as hell was not a "natural right". This would include any assistance for natural disasters which you seem to have an inordinate amount of.


SamenessLoveThreads: 1
Posts: 49
Joined: Apr 24, 09
Edited by: SamenessLove  Apr 24, 09, 19:50    #72
dcchris:
Is it just me or does anybody else see a contradiction in this arguement?

You have a point here but I think it arises from semantic issues. The colonies did "unite" for the Declaration to secede as one from Great Britain but they among themselves retained an independence. It's kind of a play on words really. If I say "we united to secede", is there a contradiction there?

Wahldo:
Well, when you do secede be sure and pay back the US taxpayer for all the investments we've made into your state because that sure as hell was not a "natural right". This would include any assistance for natural disasters which you seem to have an inordinate amount of.

It seams like you're making some claim here that receiving taxpayer money obligates a state not to secede. Is this accurate?


Wahldo  Apr 24, 09, 20:12    #73
SamenessLove:
Is this accurate?

You mean is it law? I don't know , state's don't often ask to leave the union. Would it be a reasonble claim of the US to ask Texas for compensation adjusted for inflation? Yes, of course it would. Texas has greatly benefited from being a part of the US, now they don't want to be part of the union - well nothing's for free. Texas would have to ante up for all the road, harbour construction, disaster relief and any other federal assistance provided to you by the US taxpayer. Maybe you're the corrupt ones if you can't comply with this?

You'd be thieves more or less.


SamenessLoveThreads: 1
Posts: 49
Joined: Apr 24, 09
Edited by: SamenessLove  Apr 24, 09, 21:17    #74
Wahldo:
You mean is it law?

No, I wasn't asking if it was law, just if my understanding of what you were saying was right. You're point could be more concise.
Wahldo:
Texas has greatly benefited from being a part of the US, now they don't want to be part of the union - well nothing's for free.

But wouldn't one of the reasons for secession be that Texas is precisely not benefiting from being in the Union? Wouldn't an argument for secession state that Texas is now being harmed by remaining in the Union?

So do the benefits outweigh the harms? And if they do, then maybe it is the US taxpayer that owes Texans? If Texans see their freedoms being harmed, can you put a price on that?


Wahldo Edited by: Wahldo  Apr 24, 09, 21:26    #75
SamenessLove:
Texas is precisely not benefiting from being in the Union?

temporarily not benefitting.. or did you think the recession will last forever? Curiously none of the other southen states have talked about seceding. That should give you an indication of how stupid the suggestion even is.

SamenessLove:
So do the benefits outweigh the harms? And if they do, then maybe it is the US taxpayer that owes Texans? Can you put a price on freedom?

These are cheesy semantics.. basically argumentative. Do you actually believe that is in Texas' best interest to leave one of the most successful entities ever established on earth? In the long run?


nunczkaThreads: 15
Posts: 572
Joined: Sep 13, 08
 Apr 24, 09, 22:01    #76
dcchris:
HatefulBunch397:
what will happen
hmm the french will blockade the naval force of the south so the
north can win? haha

Pfft! The French do not have the guts to do anything. They lost every war they ever fought in modern times.. The only time that they did good was to block the Chesapeake bay, preventing British aid to Cornwallis at Yorktown during the revolutionary war


SeanusThreads: 22
Posts: 30,160
Joined: Dec 25, 07
 Apr 24, 09, 23:41    #77
Wahldo is right, this ain't pick and choose here. If sth isn't as you'd like it to be, you work on it and try to make it better. You don't see shires in the UK looking to bail out due to hardship creeping up on them.


jdwoitonThreads: -
Posts: 1
Joined: May 19, 09
 May 19, 09, 04:09    #78
I'm new to this board and a Texan of Polish heritage. I have one final thing to say about Texas seceeding from the US. It will never happen. It's just a bad joke from a moron.

Rick Perry is so stupid we could bring George W. Bush back as governor and the intelligence level of that office would actually increase. It goes to show how dumb the majority of Texas voters are to elect him twice.

The republican party primary for the governors race in 2010 will be highly contested with current senator Kay Bailey Hutchison running for governor too. This is a chance for Rick to stake a good position with the far right wing of the Texas republican party.


PolishCowboyThreads: 1
Posts: 64
Joined: Jan 30, 09
 May 19, 09, 05:04    #79
jdwoiton:
Texas seceeding from the US. It will never happen

Your right, there won't be time for secession. Instead we will just be absorbed in to The Narco Conglomerate of Mexico if current illegal immigration trends continue.


shopgirlThreads: 7
Posts: 1,446
Joined: Apr 6, 07
 May 19, 09, 05:30    #80
PolishCowboy:
Instead we will just be absorbed in to The Narco Conglomerate of Mexico if current illegal immigration trends continue.

Are the drug wars still raging in the borderlands?
I haven't been watching the news......I'd hoped things had settled down some.


plk123Threads: 30
Posts: 6,410
Joined: Aug 29, 07
 May 19, 09, 05:38    #81
pgtx:
what do you think?

si, si.. mexico del norte... arriba, arriba.. :D :D :D


JethroThreads: 1
Posts: 61
Joined: Dec 18, 08
 May 19, 09, 12:39    #82
America is a divided country like nothing that I can remember in my life time. I wouldn't count anything out. Gun and ammunition sales are going through the roof. There are more states talking about protecting their sovereignty.


freebirdThreads: 3
Posts: 638
Joined: Jun 8, 07
 May 19, 09, 12:41    #83
Jethro:
There are more states talking about protecting their sovereignty.

yeah, thank to Obama bin Laden


scrappletonThreads: -
Posts: 1,365
Joined: Apr 28, 09
 May 19, 09, 13:12    #84
Jethro:
America is a divided country like nothing that I can remember in my life time. I wouldn't count anything out. Gun and ammunition sales are going through the roof. There are more states talking about protecting their sovereignty.

This reminds of draft dodgers during Viet Nam skipping off up to Canada. When things were over they wanted to come back and have been denied citizenship. To whoever (states included) wants to leave now and break apart, be my guess.. you'll live to regret that decision. Key agents responsible for the credit crisis reside in almost all the states by the way. I don't think Mr. Obama has ever worked in that sector. However, by all means keep heaping the blame upon him. That will surely be the remedy we all hope for.


SeanusThreads: 22
Posts: 30,160
Joined: Dec 25, 07
 May 19, 09, 13:17    #85
Super answer, scrappy. Real men can stay in when the water gets a bit cold. Being honest is the best way, those creeps responsible for the crisis are dispersed throughout America and they must not be allowed to fragment things.

Texas is an integral part of America and to leave due to a 'crisis' would be insincere.


scrappletonThreads: -
Posts: 1,365
Joined: Apr 28, 09
 May 19, 09, 13:20    #86
Seanus:
Real men can stay in when the water gets a bit cold. Being honest is the best way, those creeps responsible for the crisis are dispersed throughout America and they must not be allowed to fragment things.

Here's somebody from another country who gets it.. too bad my own countrymen do not.
: (


SeanusThreads: 22
Posts: 30,160
Joined: Dec 25, 07
Edited by: Seanus  May 19, 09, 13:26    #87
It's also important from a historical perspective. Americans rightly talk about what their forefathers did for them and how they fought to defend, and indeed promote, the core values of America. Why lose it all now?

HB, an American poster, made the point about the spirit of the people. It's true. America is being milked and diluted but the people can take a stand by becoming more aware.


JethroThreads: 1
Posts: 61
Joined: Dec 18, 08
Edited by: Jethro  May 19, 09, 13:28    #88
scrappleton:
This reminds of draft dodgers during Viet Nam skipping off up to Canada.

I am sure that these were liberal anti was activist.. Very much like our present day liberal politicians. Our new leader will lead us out of this predicament. He promised a change.. Now we have a devided nation. RIGHT ON MUVVAS

And who was it that granted them amnesty.. Another LIBERAL peanut farmer..Jimmy Carted


scrappletonThreads: -
Posts: 1,365
Joined: Apr 28, 09
Edited by: scrappleton  May 19, 09, 13:47    #89
Seanus:
America is being milked and diluted but the people can take a stand by becoming more aware.

It's being milked and maybe destroyed by opportunists who siezed the moment and capitalized on lax government and the general naivete of borrowers. Amazingly just as they did in the 30's with stock manipulation. Russians are often painted as barbarian but their gulag system would be advantageous for corporate pigs like this. This is what the business class left to it's own devices will do to a country.

No Gordon Gekko, greed actually isn't good.


JethroThreads: 1
Posts: 61
Joined: Dec 18, 08
 May 19, 09, 13:54    #90
scrappleton:
Russians are often painted as barbarian but their gulag system would be advantageous for corporate pigs like this. This is what the business class left to it's own devices will do to a country.

You forgot the baby boomers. Now they were some miserable people. What right do they have throwing you young punks out into the world to fend for your selves? For shame on them.



page 3 of 6:  « Prev  1  2  3  4  5  6  Next »

Home / Polonia - USA, Canada / Unanswered [this forum] | Similar


Similar discussions:

Reply re: Texas can leave the union if it wants to...

If you're reading this, you are probably not a registered user yet and cannot access all forums and features!

 - Before creating a new thread, make sure to follow the Thread Title Creation Rules.
 - Your message must comply with the General Forum Rules.
 - If you have further questions, check the Forum FAQ & Feedback section.

To post anonymously, please enter a temporary and unique username (without password) or login and post as a member.

Username:   Password: 



re: Texas can leave the union if it wants to...


Posting Guidelines:

- Stay on topic. If your post is not related to this thread, create a new thread or post in the Off-topic forum.
- Use the Search and Similar Threads features to avoid duplicating threads.
- Do not insult or harass others, play nicely!
- Do not personally attack others to avoid temporary or permanent suspension.

List of colleges & universities (in the USA) that offer Polish courses  Cigarettes reach nine dollars a pack in New York


Random: trying to find a Polish girl I let down in the early 70's



Home | Unanswered | Archives | Random | Statistics Time in Poland: 08:06 / Feb 9

About Us | Contact Us | Rules, Privacy | Poland Advertising

© 2005-12 PolishForums.com