US Polonia 70% for Kaczyński

zetigrekThreads: 59 Posts: 2,709 Joined: May 20, 10 ♂	Jun 22, 10, 12:35 #61
SzwedwPolsce: It's a statistical fact that Kaczynski gets most of his votes in rural areas, where the level of education is low. From my experience this is a rubbish. I know ppl who are very intelligent, well-educated and vote for Kaczyński. You would be suprise how many is them. I think its propaganda set up by spindoctors... and I, myself, say that - a huge objector of Kaczynski!

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Edited by: 1jola Jun 22, 10, 12:46 #62

SzwedwPolsce:

Well educated?

And you think because you and your friends are logging hours at some college that you are educated? Most of you are studying psychology or other meaningless subjects anyway. How is Latin this year?

Landora:

I was getting gifts from my Dutch and French family, but they don't have citizenship any more.

Why not?

landora:

No idea, probably weren't interested in it. They are Dutch/French, not Polish.

So, they don't have Dutch/French citizenship nor Polish. Only to you your statements make sense. Another 'educated' POlshevik.

Al_73Threads: - Posts: 1 Joined: Jun 22, 10 ♂	Jun 22, 10, 13:30 #63
Agree with the observation that most of the polish immigrants into Australia from the post WW2 era are rightwing conservative/patriotic, closeminded and opinionated and unsophisticated etc. Didn't know they could vote in polish elections!! If the article is based on facts, then he's appeal must be his overt catholicism/patriotism. He's a tinpot dictator in a suit.

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Jun 22, 10, 13:44 #64

SzwedwPolsce:

Well educated? At my university the vast majority would not vote for Kaczynski. And it's in one of the most "traditional" parts of Poland.

It's a statistical fact that Kaczynski gets most of his votes in rural areas, where the level of education is low.

SzwedWPolsce - there's really no sense in replaying to 1ola's posts, just ignore them. There's no sense in argueing with such vexatious sick of hatred people.

zetigrek:

From my experience this is a rubbish. I know ppl who are very intelligent, well-educated and vote for Kaczyński. You would be suprise how many is them. I think its propaganda set up by spindoctors... and I, myself, say that - a huge objector of Kaczynski!

Of course you will find educated people in Kaczyński's electorate, but it's a fact that most of his voters come from lower social classess. His popularity in the rural areas is just a part of that.

1jolaThreads: 33 Posts: 2,737 Joined: Sep 23, 08 ♂	Jun 22, 10, 13:51 #65
frd: but it's a fact that most of his voters come from lower social classess. But he still the most educated of all the candidates, and you come from uneducated peasants yourself, don't forget that.

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Jun 22, 10, 16:08 #66

1jola:

I was getting gifts from my Dutch and French family, but they don't have citizenship any more.

Why not?

landora:
No idea, probably weren't interested in it. They are Dutch/French, not Polish.

So, they don't have Dutch/French citizenship nor Polish. Only to you your statements make sense. Another 'educated' POlshevik.

Honey, what are you talking about? Can't you even read?

In very, very simple words: they have Dutch or French citizenship, as they are not the first generation living abroad and they didn't apply for the Polish one. Can I be more clear than that? Bigger letters maybe?

My family was fighting against communism. I've never voted any left wing party. I'm living in this country, working for it and paying taxes. How dare you offend me like that? Do you want to see my diplomas? Do you want to show me your own - if you have any? Have you ever heard such a difficult word like "democracy"? You know, it means that people are actually allowed to have different views on things, as opposed to dictatorship. You know, it's scary to think there are more people like you out there in my beautiful country.

delphiandomineThreads: 42 Posts: 9,954 Joined: Nov 25, 08 ♂ [Suspended]	Edited by: delphiandomine Jun 22, 10, 16:37 #67
I find it rather ironic that the only person posting throughout the day on here happens to be a strong PiS supporter - yet another one of the unemployed PiS keyboard warriors?

IronsideThreads: 59 Posts: 6,789 Joined: Feb 26, 09 ♂	Edited by: Ironside Jun 22, 10, 23:26 #68
frd: Nah she doesn't, but she's a PiS voter though.. well, make sure that she know your political allegation in case she would like to include you in her last will. delphiandomine: Not What is really interesting is what vexing incentive you have in Komorowski election as you are Scot.

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Edited by: delphiandomine Jun 23, 10, 00:28 #69

Ironside:

What is really interesting is what vexing incentive you have in Komorowski election as you are Scot.

Because I pay taxes here and run a small business, unlike the American "TRUE POLISH" Polonia who are so patriotic that they don't pay a thing to Poland. Bit like the PiS voters who claim disability benefits from the Polish State and who then work "black" too. Obviously, the election of Komorowski would threaten them.

But I actually think that once Kaczynski goes, we might see PiS finally transform into a proper modern Catholic-socialist party. And there's nothing wrong with that - Catholic social teaching and socialist economy views mixed together could be quite popular in Poland, and certainly credible if they toned down the hysteria.

One thing is certain - I have a vote in the local elections this year, and the party that gets my vote will be the one that makes the most sense to me at the time. I'm very much politically neutral here - there's no natural centre-left party along the lines of the Nordic model, so I will vote very, very carefully. Most unlike the Polonia, that's for certain!

tygrysThreads: 2 Posts: 404 Joined: Dec 28, 07 ♂	Edited by: tygrys Jun 23, 10, 05:11 #70
delphiandomine: PiS Why did they ever call that pis?

plk123Threads: 30 Posts: 6,412 Joined: Aug 29, 07 ♂	Jun 23, 10, 06:17 #71
tygrys: Why did they ever call that pis? Prawo i Sprawiedliwość

IronsideThreads: 59 Posts: 6,789 Joined: Feb 26, 09 ♂	Jun 23, 10, 11:13 #72
tygrys: Why did they ever call that pis? L&O :)

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Jun 23, 10, 15:10 #73

delphiandomine:

But I actually think that once Kaczynski goes, we might see PiS finally transform into a proper modern Catholic-socialist party. And there's nothing wrong with that - Catholic social teaching and socialist economy views mixed together could be quite popular in Poland, and certainly credible if they toned down the hysteria.

I don't agree with your view of PiS as a socialist party, although some liberal extremist seems to share your opinion.
However I consent to your observation with minor modification, that politics in Poland is hysterical and lack serious debate.

delphiandomineThreads: 42 Posts: 9,954 Joined: Nov 25, 08 ♂ [Suspended]	Jun 23, 10, 15:17 #74
Ironside: I don't agree with your view of PiS as a socialist party, although some liberal extremist seems to share your opinion. Well - they share the same view as many social democratic parties in Europe. I mean, all the pro family, pro welfare policies - these are all fundamentally socialist. It's no bad thing!

IronsideThreads: 59 Posts: 6,789 Joined: Feb 26, 09 ♂	Jun 23, 10, 15:31 #75
delphiandomine: I mean, all the pro family, pro welfare policies - these are all fundamentally socialist. It's no bad thing! There is more to PiS than pro family and welfare policies, its seems to me that you don't perceive it.

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Jun 24, 10, 00:44 #76

Ironside:

There is more to PiS than pro family and welfare policies, its seems to me that you don't perceive it.

Sure, they have many Catholic policies too. Really, Catholicism lends itself well to socialism - and I think the level of support for PiS in Poland (about 30-ish percent, give or take 5%) is about right.

Really, I think the problem with PiS is that they've allowed a cult of personality to grow up around the Kaczynski twins. That's why Kaczynski losing may be no bad thing for them - they may just go into the 2011 elections with fresh new blood. They're in the difficult situation that they're always going to struggle to find people to enter a coalition with now, as Kaczynski is certainly not going to attract any support from the SLD or PO.

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Jun 24, 10, 09:20 #77

It's not a cult of personality, it's one of the ... defining features of the Polish political scene.

In short, a political party is a vehicle for a specific leader and any dissent means the dissenter leaves to either retire from politics or start up his own vehicle. The term used to be 'pocket party' in Polish and it's what both PiS and PO have turned into.

Ironically, they both started as attempts to create traditional kinds of European political parties with different voices and internal debate but both quickly devolved into leadership vehicles for the Kaczynskis and Tusk repsectively as anyone with any kind of serious disagreement with the leaders were muscled or frozen out.

The only real political parties in any traditional sense are SLD and PSL. And although PSL has largely become the vehicle of Pawlak, but it predates and will survive him whereas I doubt if PiS or PO could survive the departure of their current leaders.

SLD of course had the advantage (if you want to call it that) of inheriting a party structure and functioning like a political party by doing little things like keeping internal squabbling mostly out of the public sphere and grooming younger members to play important roles in the party, both of which are neglected by PiS and PO as far as I can tell.

MediaWatchThreads: 31 Posts: 1,306 Joined: Aug 30, 08 ♂	Jun 24, 10, 09:32 #78
As a Polish American I will respect either candidate that is voted in. Its up to the Poles in Poland who the best candidate is. Having said this, which candidate would be better on cutting taxes and promoting small business in Poland? I don't know which candidate would be best for this but who ever he is I hope he wins.

delphiandomineThreads: 42 Posts: 9,954 Joined: Nov 25, 08 ♂ [Suspended]	Jun 24, 10, 10:04 #79
MediaWatch: Having said this, which candidate would be better on cutting taxes and promoting small business in Poland? Komorowski. Essentially, Komorowski is pro-business, whereas Kaczynski is pro-welfare. The Polonia doesn't understand that the position of President is largely ceremonial, despite Lech Kaczynski's attempts to pretend that he actually held some influence or power.

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