Can you BE Polish without SPEAKING Polish?

polaus	Jan 24, 12, 07:01 #211
You're Polish if you maintain Polish Citizenship, and have a passport. I have both Australian and Polish citizenship, it depends on what passport I travel at the time.

Patrycja19Threads: 77 Posts: 3,907 Joined: Oct 31, 06 ♀	Jan 24, 12, 07:28 #212
beta2: Patrycja, this thread is pure provocation like many others here. Don't be taken in ! Don't let yourself be decived ! Listen to your heart, there is Polska there. You know it for certain. i know ... But I have seen indications of this love/ hate and it does bother me that I would be judged before I testify. Im feeling under the weather , I have a cough that is just lingering..

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Jan 24, 12, 07:31 #213

FUZZYWICKETS:

Does that go only for Poles? What about people that leave China? Russia? Greece? Ireland? Vietnam? They're all traitors too, taking the easy route, abandoning their countries, not true patriots?

It depends. They may not be traitors but they are definitely not patriots if they're leaving their homeland for a better life elsewhere. Is it a bad thing? I don't know. Perhaps. If it was for the safety of my family I would try to leave Russia immediately (which I honestly speaking would love to do).

I believe that living in a country different from the one of birth changes one's way of thinking. Moreover reading foreign literature in its original language may change one's turn of mind. One day you wake up and realize that you are actually far ahead (or probably behind) your (ex-)fellow countrymen. Can you consider yourself be yet one of them? Yes, technically you can but given that you are going to be a minority with your turn of mind in your homeland and they will still be a majority it doesn't make much sense.

A couple of years in total spent in the US changed my turn of mind drastically. Another five or ten could erase the most of russianness in me. It certainly depends on a person with his ability and will to integrate but I think many people who live abroad for a long time can easily put a prefix "plastic" before their original nationalities. Those who cannot integrate usually come back..

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Jan 24, 12, 12:59 #214

polaus:

You're Polish if you maintain Polish Citizenship, and have a passport.

If we go with that definition, wouldn't it depend on which you acquired first and what you swore to do when you acquired your second passport?

Although, if you acquired your Polish passport second and on the basis of naturalisation, the question is moot with regard to the subject of this thread, as you would have to speak Polish in order to naturalise.

JonnyMThreads: 15 Posts: 4,160 Joined: Mar 9, 11 MEMBER ♂	Jan 24, 12, 17:15 #215
polaus: You're Polish if you maintain Polish Citizenship, and have a passport. I have both Australian and Polish citizenship, it depends on what passport I travel at the time. It depends a bit more on whether you are part of the nation culturally and linguistically rather than just on paper.

polaus

Jan 25, 12, 09:50 #216

@ Harry...I do speak Polish, I eat bigos, drink Warka etc etc (yes you can get this at the Polish Club in Brisbane thank God for that) not having a go at you just having a joke. However the point is when you have citizenship of the country you can claim yourself to be a national of that country. For example here in Australia during the citizenship ceremony they say congratulations you're Australian... end of story. It is the law not just here in Australia but in Poland, and other countries as well and by law you have the right to call yourself one of that country e.g. Polish, Australian, American, English etc etc once granted citizenship. I understand where you might be coming from your Polish if is it in your blood yes it is, and this is proven even through the old San Sanguinis law (the old latin phrase for right of blood) where under Polish law and other countries they still uphold this. You must prove that you have Polish blood in your veins to gain Polish citizenship (and other European countries have this law) irrespective of where you are born. So again even through this your Polish.

Anyway when I eat kielbasa, smalec, and drink Warka lol I beat myself at my chest and say to myself I am proud to Polish...it is in your blood.

HarryThreads: 60 Posts: 8,191 Joined: May 2, 07 ♂	Jan 25, 12, 10:03 #217
" Anyway when I eat kielbasa, smalec, and drink Warka lol I beat myself at my chest and say to myself I am proud to Polish...it is in your blood." Warka? Really? Come to Poland and have some decent regional beer, there's stuff that knocks Warka into a cocked hat! As for Polish blood, about 30 proof, on my experience.

FUZZYWICKETSThreads: 12 Posts: 1,824 Joined: Nov 3, 09 ♂	Jan 25, 12, 11:43 #218
Harry: there's stuff that knocks Warka into a cocked hat! wwwwwwwwwhat? and yeah, Warka is pi$$ water.

Foreigner4Threads: 22 Posts: 1,765 Joined: Nov 18, 07 ♂	Jan 25, 12, 13:06 #219
polaus: polaus I'm interested in how you would respond to post #182

PennBoyThreads: 148 Posts: 3,305 Joined: Dec 7, 08 ♂	Jan 25, 12, 14:08 #220
polaus: You're Polish if you maintain Polish Citizenship, and have a passport. I have both Australian and Polish citizenship That's probably the best answer. If you have Polish citizenship by birth or have acquired it by having Polish ancestry obviously you want be remain or be seen as Polish.

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Edited by: Sasha Jan 25, 12, 19:02 #221

PennBoy:

If you have Polish citizenship by birth or have acquired it by having Polish ancestry obviously you want be remain or be seen as Polish.

In theory no one can deprive you of a right to be seen as Polish. Another question is how would you feel about the howling difference between you and those Poles (not necessarily ethnic ones) who have lived all their lives in Poland.

In my mind one's citizenship may have nothing to do with one's national identification. In Russia the best backup for the said is the Chechens brought up in Chechnya (formally Russia).

andrewwrightThreads: 18 Posts: 113 Joined: Dec 27, 08 ♂	Jan 25, 12, 20:18 #222
Can you BE Polish without SPEAKING Polish? YES Dont ask ? i wont tell lies,

JonnyMThreads: 15 Posts: 4,160 Joined: Mar 9, 11 MEMBER ♂	Jan 26, 12, 05:54 #223
andrewwright: Can you BE Polish without SPEAKING Polish? No. You can be Polish-ish, but not the real McCoy if Poles have to learn a foreign language in order to speak with you.

polaus	Jan 26, 12, 12:23 #224
@ Harry & Fizzywickets...I just use Warka as an example...pun taken. Again no offence, I have drunken the regional beers bla bla, and for the record I was born in Krakow. Anyway I have said my piece (which is my last remark for this topic), and that is my opinion about what defines being Polish etc etc.

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Edited by: GabiDaHun Jan 26, 12, 13:15 #225

I think it's pretty difficult to get into the "mindset" of a culture without speaking the language from which it was derived. The languages we speak alter our perception of the world to quite a heavy degree. The grammar structure can alter our perception of time, alter out logical thought patterns, and genders can alter how we see the objects around us.

There are two things that make a culture, the obvious "learned" culture of traditions, which are handed down from your mother, father or both. This however can become diluted, when new cultures and traditions are absorbed, especially when living in a foreign country.

There is also less obvious subconscious nuances of language, which allow greater insight into how a "nation" thinks, and changes your perception of the world without you ever know it has done so. This kind of thing can't be learnt or handed down in the same way that traditions are.

In my opinion it's pretty hard to be "Proper Polish" without speaking the language, in the same way you can't be "Proper English" without speaking the language. You could imitate the traditions, but it would never really give you a truthful insight into how a nation thinks.

Here's an article which may be of interest.

http://buber.net/Basque/?p=68

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Jan 28, 12, 06:30 #226

JonnyM:

but not the real McCoy if Poles have to learn a foreign language in order to speak with you.

so the polish that immigrated to britian who are working and making a living there are they now considered British?
cause it seems like theres alot of people who still refer to them as polish stealing their jobs, not british stealing their jobs.

even when they decide to live and become british, there is alot of anger there about jobs, but if they learn the language of
english and become a citizen then they are british.

polaus:

Anyway when I eat kielbasa, smalec, and drink Warka lol I beat myself at my chest and say to myself I am proud to Polish...it is in your blood.

lol,,, cough is gone and this made me laugh.. good post.

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Edited by: modafinil Jan 28, 12, 14:37 #227

Patrycja19:

so the polish that immigrated to britian who are working and making a living there are they now considered British?
cause it seems like theres alot of people who still refer to them as polish stealing their jobs, not british stealing their jobs.

even when they decide to live and become british, there is alot of anger there about jobs, but if they learn the language of
english and become a citizen then they are british.

Poland was never part of the British Empire or commonwealth. Their children may become British if they are born here but they are well known for coming here and leaving their children behind in Poland, there's more for the pound in child benefits that way. Also they come here to have a child (or an abortion) on the house, and then go back to Poland.

Only peeps complaining are uneducated ones with a rudimentary skill set.

GabiDaHunThreads: 1 Posts: 60 Joined: Jan 18, 12 ♀	Jan 28, 12, 14:45 #228
modafinil: Poland was never part of the British Empire or commonwealth. No, but id did provide us with an entire fleet of Pilots to the UK war effort in WW2. Many of them stayed in the UK but still have relatives in Poland. I think we at least owe these people a little something, don't you?

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Jan 28, 12, 14:56 #229

GabiDaHun:

No, but id did provide us with an entire fleet of Pilots to the UK war effort in WW2. Many of them stayed in the UK but still have relatives in Poland. I think we at least owe these people a little something, don't you?

The ones who permanently settled are of course British. Not a case of owing as such, as they contributed, heartily. I wouldn't see a problem even if the fighters that defended Britain that didn't settle here received some pensionable benefits in honour.

Foreigner4Threads: 22 Posts: 1,765 Joined: Nov 18, 07 ♂	Jan 29, 12, 09:09 #230
Statement: JonnyM: No. You can be Polish-ish, but not the real McCoy if Poles have to learn a foreign language in order to speak with you. Response: Patrycja19: so the polish that immigrated to britian who are working and making a living there are they now considered British? Question: WTF?

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