Puzzler, what are your TRUE thoughts on Poland and it's place in the EU?

re: And then again, maybe they won't stay 'here'? Are you some kind of psychic knowing future events? Truly, the Polish people aren't any more enthusiastic about UK. The hate propaganda, the beatings and killings, the exploitation have done their work. Lots of them are moving out already. Others say they will do the same thing as soon as they can. The evidence of this can be seen e.g. on Polish-language websites. Ask your wife to read for you what Poles write e.g. on the Onet about working in UK. So give a sigh of relief, pal. Soon you'll have only your beloved Third Worlders in place of those hated Poles.

re: E.g. people in UK seem to appreciate Russian culture, especially literature. They don't know much about Polish culture, but seem to be open, especially now, to exploration. I haven't noticed any 'cultural' dislike towards us, or anybody else, in them.

Care to explain the contradiction, Puzzler, or is this the reason you chose the name "Puzzler"; to confuse people with your contradicting statements?

Poles living in the US are starting to move back to Poland. Recent statistics I read in the local paper showed that Erie's Polish residents have closed their meat shops and moved out. They've started a trend from what I hear.

That's already happening in the UK???

That's what I want to know from Puzzler, melon head;).......In one thread he makes it seem like it's all sunshine and roses for Poles in the UK; In another thread, he makes it sound as if the Poles can't wait to get out of the UK for the terrible mistreatment bestowed upon them. I'm just wondering what his true feelings are, or is he just trying to play devils advocate in each thread?

PL will lead the EU some day. :)

Ranj, it's all simple: things in this world (I don't mean just Europe) are actually not as simple and uniform as some (including you, it seems) would like them to be. It's true that many Poles working in the UK feel bitter and disappointed and quite a few of them are moving out. It's true that the media hate propaganda and caused by them beatings and even killings of Poles as well as merciless ripping them off by some employers seem to account for that. (I'll try to post today an article on slavery in the UK involving Polish guest workers.) Also, it's true that many Poles are treated fairly in here. It is true that many British people, including employers, have a positive attitude towards us. It is true that the British don't seem to have any 'cultural' dislike of us; they just don't know much about us and our culture, or their knowledge is flawed, which seems to be, among others, the result of the Cold War era brainwashing. But they seem to be open to learn more. And I know that more and more Brits visiting Poland get to like the country and people so much that they tend to return and even settle for good. I think that the British people are extremely good-hearted (I love the people and country) and we would not have any problems with them, have they not been brainwashed by local media psychopaths against us. And as you may know the media psychopaths are a nation unto themselves; they are not really British or American or Polish; they are not us. Personally, I think that Britain is lost to the Third World crowds, which seems to be the Brits' choice (e.g. read Bubba and Osiol's posts in the thread on the Negro infecting Polish women with HIV), or rather they have no choice given what terrible Forces have them in their grip. It seems to be the Forces' choice, in fact. No wonder crowds of English leave England. The media compulsive liars suggest that it's because of Polish guest workers, but in reality it's the Third World motley that makes them leave, it seems. Let those Brit refugees discover Poland and stay with us!
:)

Although I'm not Puzzler, I think I guess this contradiction.
The growing interest toward Polish culture is noticed among intelectuals such as Norman Davies. They start writing books and articles about Polish History, the number of translated Polish books is more and more every year.
And as to the man in the street in UK, well he doesn't share that interest of British intelectuals.

re: PL will lead the EU some day. :)

- God forbid us from that! Better for us not to be in the mess called the EU, with its commiefascist mentality, racism against the Poles, mobbing (at present against the Polish government and Poland), bullying the weaker by the strong, and above all the omnipresent aggressive and arrogant Third World crowds. I don't wish the most frequent name given to a child in near future Warsaw to be Ahmed or Muhammad (as is reportedly the case in Brussels); I don't want in Poland the 'equity' or 'quota' system (the equivalent of the 'points for working class origin' in Soviet communism) to make an idiot from Africa get a responsible well-paid job instead of a better-qualified Polish worker.

The EU doesn't seem to stand for a real unification of Europe; it rather seems to stand for the destruction of European peoples.

I don't think today world has a conception of imigration and already elaborated apporoaches to imigrational policy. All seems to be eclectical.
Nobody shall deny that among imigrants some people should be useful but the mechanisms to distinguish them aren't perfect.
I'm astonished all states has some approach that may be convenient to goods impotr only. Professions, job assets are only taken into account without any interest to imigrant as to human being. Nobody interests about the ability of imigrant to integrate the society and become patriot of his new motherland. Even in cases such precious imigrants appear they are all equalized with those indifferent and don't have any opportunity to prove their loyalty.

Your right Puzzler, when I was growing up in the UK in the 70's, I will always remember a map of Europe and when we looked at the map and there were different colours for each of the nations. When it came to East Germany and across to Russia, encompassing Poland, Czech Republic and others, this was all coloured red and our teacher told us that these were Russian countries. Therefore, we grew up with very limited knowledge and most times propaganda about the eastern bloc countries. When I first came to Poland, I was nervous because of the ingrained stupidity that we were brainwashed with.
I think it will take some time for this habitual mentality to be removed from people of my age in the UK, and I can only hope that today things in geography lessons and knowledge of other countries are a lot better.

Its true the world should know more about cultures of other nations, ways of life, social being etc but books can only go so far. Its not just us Brits that 'seem' to no nothing beyond our Islands, how many people can honestly say they have revised a whole countrys history other then their own without a reason such as getting a degree in international history etc? Sure Im not saying we shouldnt, but people learn as they live and accepting and acknowledging cultures and societys from other countrys is a goodthing, but why bend over backwards when most people struggle to realise their own roots?

Screw the psychopats !

The same thing may occure to you if you visit Russia now or even read more than British papers

Spot-on, Puzzler. I think this post captures the sickness of the West clearly and bluntly. It's sad that our academics and journalists in Europe and America are too cowed by 'Political Correctness' to write and speak the truth. (And the few who ARE brave enough to stand up for the sovereignty and cultural integrity of their respective nations are smeared and persecuted without exception.)

I hope that most Poles are as skeptical of the EU as you are. There is little doubt that the apparatchiks in Brussels are only too willing to spread the multicultural and anti-national disease to Poland and beyond--as if the record of such policies in Britain and America has not been a complete and utter failure!

No I don't think so, after seeing that Poland is like other countries in the world; the ingrained stupidity that I was given as a child no longer influences me. As to British papers, after living there for 35 years I take them with a pinch of salt now :O)

Some of them seem to be good. Financial times for example.
As to Russia, I didn't mean you have a negative idea about it. I only meant its problems are quite different (ind in many cases worse) the Western people imagine.

Gary Busey,

What is your opinion on low cost challenge we are discussing in topic "Poland-Russia: never ending story".
I wrote that low cost in Western states such as Levittown or Ford T influenced much social development but when ex socialist states abandoned communism low cost on cars and cottages was out of agenda.
Even US Nicolas Nogroponte's laptop for 200 USD now and 75 USD in some two years wasn't adecuately supported by apparatchiks in the USA as well as in EU. The same thing about Renault-Nissan future car for 3000 USD. Car manufacturer less interested in low cost researches and bureuaucrats don't even study the challenge and tell people the truth about low cost future possibilities.
Bush never made publicity of USD 75 laptop and promises of Bill Gates about future laptop with sensible screen for 200 USD. These words as well as the words abour 2000 USD car for all are more precious for poor Nations including some EU states than all speeches about USA military control over the world.
As to new possible generation of Levittown low cost cottages, they can prevent many bloody conflicts all over the world because people under threat will have opportunity to migrate to the territories their ethnic group is in majority. Why should USA spend so much money on military when 100(!) times less money on low cost research may permit more results all over the world? Why EU apparatchiks are so inactive?

So would you conceed then, that the same holds true for the US?

I prefere EU than USA ...

Is that because you already live in the EU, Lukasz? Have you ever lived in the USA or even been there for any length of time, or are you basing your opinion on it the same way Puzzler and others say the Polish are judged.....by biased media? I'm not knocking you either way, I am just curious how you came to have your preference. :)

Yes ;) It is main reason, and I hope EU will be succesful project, living in good frienship with USA

As do I...thanks for your reply:)

Where has this taken place? In the United Kingdom? Certainly here where I live there are no beatings at all of the Poles.

re: I was nervous because of the ingrained stupidity that we were brainwashed with

- Ukpolska, we on the Soviet side of the Iron Curtain were brainwashed and being set against you, folks, by 'our' own 'engineers of the soul.' So-called West was depicted by those psychopaths as hell on earth. Some of us believed this rubbish, whereas others - the real true-blue Polish people - were never fooled by the propaganda, and often made fun of it.

By the way, I think that 'our' psychopaths- the experts on brainwashing didn't basically differ from 'your' psychopaths-experts on brainwashing.
:)

I have seen a couple of reports in the national media, one of which appeared on this forum.
The lack of evidence for there being a serious problem - evidence from Polish people I know, British people I know, and even from the media, suggests that there is no more or very little more of a problem in this regard than there is with anyone being attacked on the streets of Britain.

re: I prefere EU than USA ...

- Specifically why?
:)

- Personally, I am not as hopefool, oops, hopeful, as you are. It appears that since the end of the so-called Cold War there has been a growing clash between the political interests of the EU (a German-led entity) and those of the United States. The Germans, for instance, have been developing a strong economic (and so also political) ties with Putin's Russia. The French seem to be eager to do the same, and so do the Italians. The German 'Europa' doesn't need Americans any longer. There's also the prospect of future fierce and brutal competiton for the shrinking natural resources. A strong, united, powerful, competitive Europe, therefore, is not in the American interests. On the other hand, many of us in Poland wouldn't mind the American nukes on our territory....
:)

You should notice Europe changed leaders, and new one doesnt seam to be so naive in relationships with Russia, all in all strong EU is in our business ...

- What do you specifically mean by the above statement? Aren't you perhaps a little naive...?
:)

ok Puzzer how do you see Polands future after fail of EU project ?

- As long as 'you' aren't Americans, I can agree with your statement.
:)