Apartment is not up to standard; right to terminate the rental agreement?

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Edited by: grubas Nov 18, 11, 18:05 #61

JonnyM:

That would depend on whether the defendant's lawyer appealed against the judgement within 14 days.

No, there is nothing what trasant can do after court decide that weksel is valid (displays all features required for weksel by law).
[/i]Charakterystyczną cechą weksla, z którą związana jest jego przydatność dla obrotu, jest abstrakcyjność stosunku wekslowego (brak wpływu tzw. causy - przyczyny, podstawy na ważność zobowiązania z weksla), która wyraża się w określeniu "bezwarunkowe zobowiązanie", co oznacza, że sam dokument weksla nie jest związany z jakimikolwiek innymi czynnościami prawnymi (np. umową), a więc zapłata sumy wekslowej nie może być uzależniona od jakichkolwiek innych okoliczności czy warunków.[i]

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Nov 18, 11, 18:56 #62

Wedle:

it is not how the world works, it is how people operate at the lower levels of society.

Oh really? So the "higher levels" of society would never think of taking advantage of someone who is trusting and inexperienced then? There will always be predators out there, rich and poor, large and small, and the only way to defend yourself (in ANY country of the world) is to always have everything in writing. The agency I am renting from here in the UK literally swamps me with paperwork over the tiniest detail. They don't take my word for anything, and I don't take theirs.

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Edited by: Wedle Nov 18, 11, 19:02 #63

Magdalena:

Oh really? So the "higher levels" of society would never think of taking advantage of someone who is trusting and inexperienced then? There will always be predators out there, rich and poor, large and small, and the only way to defend yourself (in ANY country of the world) is to always have everything in writing. The agency I am renting from here in the UK literally swamps me with paperwork over the tiniest detail. They don't take my word for anything, and I don't take theirs.

Quite simply rich or poor, you either operate with class or without,personally for me being British if I deal with Brits I can establish very early on if someone is worthy of my business or not. In Poland it has taken a little time to establish and select people I can do business with, I have a strict criteria, I know after the first meeting and exchange of information, if they are worthy partners or not. This is a Polish forum and we are discussing all things Polish, as far as what goes on in the UK, I really am not interested, I discuss issues on Poland.

MagdalenaThreads: 5 Posts: 1,389 Joined: Aug 15, 07 ♀	Nov 18, 11, 19:10 #64
Wedle: Quite simply rich or poor, you either operate with class or without, I can agree with that. This issue has nothing whatsoever to do with social standing or nationality.

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Nov 18, 11, 19:14 #65

Yeah... But let's try and keep this on topic as much as possible for my own sake. Sorry if that sounds egotistical, but I really would like some pointers as I have already approached the realtor before.

When I did that I said that I wanted to look at another apartment, and the realtor said that I have my contract for one year and that I couldn't resign now because I will have to pay for the whole year.

The realtor then said that the first contract is usually definite first and then for an indefinite period... What does this mean?

WedleThreads: 24 Posts: 786 Joined: Sep 27, 11 ♂	Nov 18, 11, 19:16 #66
Magdalena: social standing or nationality. This is the exact reason you will never understand, when you don't have it you can't comprehend it. Just for your information: You may be a pauper or a prince, yet you can still operate with dignity and trust. Magdalena on the other hand if someone crosses you or disrespects you there is no corner on earth for them to hide.

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Edited by: mafketis Nov 18, 11, 19:18 #67

Fredrikkk:

The realtor then said that the first contract is usually definite first and then for an indefinite period... What does this mean?

There's usually an initial lease (usually a year) and after that (if the owner and tenant agree) they just go on a month to month basis with no lease. At least that's what a friend of mine did.

Also, the first answer in Poland is always 'no'. That's where standing up for yourself and arguing (skillfully not angrily) and persistence is needed. That first 'no' doesn't mean 'no', it means "let's negotiate!" or "convince me!".

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Nov 18, 11, 20:51 #68

Fredrikkk:

When I did that I said that I wanted to look at another apartment, and the realtor said that I have my contract for one year and that I couldn't resign now because I will have to pay for the whole year.

I just checked and at first glance it seems that your relator is right.
I don't feel like translating,sorry.

[/i]Kwestia wypowiedzenia umowy najmu inaczej przedstawia się w sytuacji umów na czas oznaczony. Umowa tego typu z założenia ma łączyć strony przez oznaczony czas. Trwałość oznacza stabilizację, pewność co do przysługujących praw oraz obciążających obowiązków. Cechą zobowiązań trwałych jest to, że pozwalają działać w zaufaniu, iż wynikające z nich prawa i obowiązki nie wygasną przedwcześnie.
Przepisy kodeksu o najmie są bezwzględnie obowiązujące, zatem art. 673 kodeksu cywilnego daje podstawę do postawienia w drodze argumentacji a contrario tezy o niedopuszczalności wypowiadania umów najmu zawartych na czas oznaczony. Jednak ustawodawca nowelizując art. 673 kc, rozstrzygnął o dopuszczalności zakończenia stosunku najmu lub dzierżawy przed upływem czasu, na jaki została zawarta umowa.
Art. 693 § 3 kodeksu cywilnego stanowi, iż jeżeli czas trwania najmu jest oznaczony, zarówno wynajmujący, jak i najemca mogą wypowiedzieć najem w wypadkach określonych w umowie. W konsekwencji tego unormowania należy przyjąć za dopuszczalne klauzule zastrzegające możliwość wcześniejszego rozwiązania za wypowiedzeniem umów najmu zawartych na czas oznaczony, w zakresie jednak ograniczonym do wypadków określonych w umowie. W myśl zasady swobody umów strony mogą dowolnie określić przyczyny wypowiedzenia umowy tak, by zabezpieczały one ich interesy, jednak przyczyny te muszą być ściśle określone. Przyjęte rozwiązanie zezwala na wypowiedzenie umowy zawartej na czas określony jedynie wówczas, gdy jest to zgodne z wolą stron wyrażoną w umowie oraz gdy strony określą w umowie wypadki uzasadniające to wypowiedzenie. Należy jednak zastrzec, iż strony nie mogą zamieścić w umowie najmu zawartej na czas oznaczony ogólnie sformułowanej możliwości wcześniejszego rozwiązania umowy za wypowiedzeniem. Możliwość przedwczesnego zakończenia umowy najmu istnieje jedynie w ściśle określonych w umowie okolicznościach.[i]

FredrikkkThreads: 1 Posts: 15 Joined: Nov 15, 11 ♂	Nov 18, 11, 21:10 #69
grubas: I just checked and at first glance it seems that your relator is right. So you're saying I have no right to terminate the contract even though it says nothing in the contract about me not being able to terminate?

grubasThreads: 20 Posts: 1,452 Joined: Feb 1, 10 ♂	Nov 18, 11, 21:16 #70
Fredrikkk: So you're saying I have no right to terminate the contract even though it says nothing in the contract about me not being able to terminate? Basically,yes.

FredrikkkThreads: 1 Posts: 15 Joined: Nov 15, 11 ♂	Nov 18, 11, 21:19 #71
What about the standard of the apartment? I mean, one shouldn't expect to have to live in an apartment with a drafty kitchen right? Or having to shower sitting down in a bathtub? I have the right to complain and get this fixed wouldn't you think?

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Nov 18, 11, 21:25 #72

Fredrikkk:

I have the right to complain and get this fixed wouldn't you think?

That's what I keep saying - you need to talk to them and tell them you're not happy with the situation. I doubt whether they would install a shower cabin in the bathroom just to make you happy though - and I presume you saw the bathroom arrangements before signing the agreement anyways. But they should definitely do something about the draft as well as explain the gas bill situation more clearly to you - ask them firmly for receipts on your payments.

FredrikkkThreads: 1 Posts: 15 Joined: Nov 15, 11 ♂	Nov 18, 11, 21:36 #73
Magdalena: and I presume you saw the bathroom arrangements before signing the agreement anyways. Yes, I did see the bathroom beforehand. I will arrange a meeting with the realtor next week and get an update on everything, as I hate not knowing what is going on!

MEMBER ♀

Nov 19, 11, 17:38 #74

Fredrikkk:

I will arrange a meeting with the realtor next week and get an update on everything,

Do not be too naive and be sure that the Realtor will tell you that you need to pay for the whole year and that you can't leave but if there is no mention in your English contract about termination of the rental contract then you can do what you prefer as long as you have paid what you owe in full.

If i were no longer happy in a flat i rent i would talk to the landlord and then send a registered mail informing her or the Realtor i confirm i will leave + date and offer her to come on a given date to give her back her/ the realtor the keys .

You are not a registered tenant with the city or anything, you paid in cash and more for gas than anyone on this forum , there is not even a proof you live in this falt apart from your landlord contract which has everything in her name so there should not be a problem but since you pay a lot and in cash be sure they will not let you leave easily.

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Edited by: grubas Nov 19, 11, 18:46 #75

LwowskaKrakow:

Do not be too naive and be sure that the Realtor will tell you that you need to pay for the whole year and that you can't leave but if there is no mention in your English contract about termination of the rental contract then you can do what you prefer as long as you have paid what you owe in full.

A trully sound piece of advice in a light of what I posted!(this long text in Polish).NOT.I doubt he will be sued if he follow your advice because he is a foraigner and it may be hard to deliver him court papers but according to interpretation of applicable law which I posted they will have all rights to sue him.

MEMBER ♀

Nov 20, 11, 11:10 #76

grubas:

I doubt he will be sued if he follow your advice because he is a foraigner

Exactly plus he does not even have a bank account in Poland and his home adress is in Norway,to sue someone over a flat you need to put some percentage of the total value of the flat with the Polish court and it is not worth it and takes forever.

I have a friend who was renting a place in Nowa Huta the tenants also had a year contract but they left saying they had found a place closer to work so she just looked for other tenanst ,that's all.

He is no longer happy with the flat, it is too cold and no longer suitable and just wants to go somewhere else , nothing illegal in that.

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Nov 20, 11, 13:14 #77

LwowskaKrakow:

If i were no longer happy in a flat i rent i would talk to the landlord and then send a registered mail informing her or the Realtor i confirm i will leave + date and offer her to come on a given date to give her back her/ the realtor the keys .

Though be prepared for a lot of noise and tears. Personally given the situation (especially the outrageous pay6ment for gas) I'd leave just before the rent is due. In English, that's called a 'moonlight flit' for various reasons. I'f you've paid a deposit or in advance, well, that's what that money is for. I doubt you'd get it back anyway, and it does sound like you've got a spectacularly bad deal there.

LwowskaKrakow:

Exactly plus he does not even have a bank account in Poland and his home adress is in Norway,to sue someone over a flat you need to put some percentage of the total value of the flat with the Polish court and it is not worth it and takes forever.

I have a friend who was renting a place in Nowa Huta the tenants also had a year contract but they left saying they had found a place closer to work so she just looked for other tenanst ,that's all.

He is no longer happy with the flat, it is too cold and no longer suitable and just wants to go somewhere else , nothing illegal in that.

Very sound advice.

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