CZYNSZ - payment issue - help

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Nov 18, 11, 10:50 #31

Mike1968:

You can only have a Polish solution for a Polish problem! Another World!

It is the normal case that the laws of a given country govern real estate disagreements, not the culture/law of a foreign buyer.

Again, ethically and morally you may be completely in the right, but you don't have the law on your side. I'm not even sure if it's legal to wave czynsz payments (unless the owner picks them up, which why would he do that?)

Your best bet is paying up and selling off or if you want to run a delaying action ask for the bills (and register to take lwowskakrakow up on her offer).

Mike1968:

I have not touch it since Management Company is looking after... never had any issues there.

They do that for free? Wow, what nice people!

Marco1968

Nov 18, 11, 12:12 #32

Mafketis: My German Management company is taking 2.5% of my monthly renting... Do not be naif, nothing in the World is for free!
Also, I do not expect to get anything for free in Poland. I will pay the o/s CZYNSZ - this is not a problem for me. Do you understand?

The issue is about the Man who is the Administrator and lay to me... When you agree with someone you should respect it! At least on this side of Europe...
Everywhere in the World you can find many 'chancers' and 'skumbags', however in Poland you have more then the normal average (or maybe is just Eastern European thing).

For the moment you can see those kind of issues only on internet, however, the Euro 2012 is coming soon... I hope that Poland will show much nicer face to the outsiders... (who do not know the Polish Law system).

Thanks a lot for all advises!

grubasThreads: 20 Posts: 1,452 Joined: Feb 1, 10 ♂	Nov 18, 11, 12:16 #33
mafketis: There's no such thing in Polish law and And you are some kind of expert on Polish law?Go to library and ask for Kodeks Cywilny,it clearly states that an oral contract is a valid contract!now,if OP feels that he can prove his claims in front of the judge he should go to court,however the burden of proving is on him and this is when a written contract comes handy.

Marco1968

Nov 18, 11, 12:24 #34

Grubas, fully agree with what you said. But again, I am not looking to change the world (I will pay my CZYNSZ - it's stg that everyone else do).
I was using that apartment rarely, a kind of 'oasis' out of the stressful life... was happy for the past 5 years. Now, very disappointed and looking to sell that place and get out ASAP...
The only message I want to pass here, is my disappointment about the behavior of the Polish Owner/Administrator... and a kind of warning for other foreigns in Poland.
After 5 years of good relationship with some people there, you cannot trust them!!! It's all about the money in Poland!

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Edited by: Wedle Nov 18, 11, 12:41 #35

grubas:

And you are some kind of expert on Polish law?Go to library and ask for Kodeks Cywilny,it clearly states that an oral contract is a valid contract!now,if OP feels that he can prove his claims in front of the judge he should go to court,however the burden of proving is on him and this is when a written contract comes handy.

grubas, there is a lawyer that has taken on two cases in Warsaw based on verbal agreements and both, on the two occasions the claimant had recorded evidence. This is something I would suggest to all foreigners entering into negotiations in Poland record the negotiations, it will cost about 20 Euro for a mini recorder that fits in your pocket.

It will be the best 20 Euro you spend in Poland.

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Nov 18, 11, 12:58 #36

Wedle:

grubas, there is a lawyer that has taken on two cases in Warsaw based on verbal agreements and both, on the two occasions the claimant had recorded evidence. This is something I would suggest to all foreigners entering into negotiations in Poland record the negotiations, it will cost about 20 Euro for a mini recorder that fits in your pocket.

It only confirms what I said though to be precise I will only add that as much as oral contract is valid in Polish law SOME types of contract require a written form for evidence purposes meaning that any other proof or witnesses confessions will be dismissed in a court.It is all in Kodeks Cywilny if anybody is interested.

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Edited by: Wedle Nov 18, 11, 13:31 #37

Marco1968:

After 5 years of good relationship with some people there, you cannot trust them!!! It's all about the money in Poland!

It is the socialist mentality. I recently had a situation of having a rental flat partially repainted, my father in law decided he wanted to give some work to a local builder/jack of all trades from the countryside that oversees his countryside house. I agreed and allowed him to arrange details, the chap turns up and gives a quote and they agree PLN 8 per m2 exclusive of paint, but inclusive of two coats preparing ,filling and moving furniture.

Two weeks later they turned up to do the job, he had quoted my F.I.L, PLN 1,700 as a finished price, at the end of the job they asked my F.I.L for PLN 2,100, because the job had taken longer than expected. I met them for the first time on the last day, when I turned up to inspect there was a heated argument going on between the three of them, I actually thought my F.I.L was going to have a heart attack, he is 72 years old, after listening to both sides of the argument, I informed them all that I understood the situation and now we should pay, but before doing so I need your invoice for PLN 2,100 inclusive of VAT. Both men looked at with with shock in their eyes and informed me they did not have the invoice with them, at this point I informed them I would be in the countryside closing down the house for the winter with my F.I.L at the weekend and I would pay them when I had a VAT invoice, which is standard practice in Poland. On the saturday we arrived in the countryside and went about our normal routine at the house, after 30 mins the wife of one of the men came over and asked my F.I.L to come over for a cup of tea, after about an hour he returned with a smile on his face with a slight smell of vodka to his breath and told me all had been settled. I did not get involved they are all happy and life goes on, the Polish way.

Marco1968

Nov 18, 11, 14:30 #38

Good story Weddle...
Good luck to you and enjoy Poland!

We have been in Poland for the last few years, I think, since 2005. But now after the last incident, enough is enough! Too many problems there... will be probably back in 100 years...
At the end of the day, there are more countries around the world and Europe with more friendly people. So, why staying in Poland?!

So, whoever wants a nice apartment in Kazimierz-Krakow (58m2), renovated in 2005 but not used since (or maybe once/twice a year), please, drop me a mail...

WedleThreads: 24 Posts: 786 Joined: Sep 27, 11 ♂	Nov 18, 11, 14:57 #39
Marco1968: So, why staying in Poland?! I agree with you 100%, when your done your done. There is always greener pastures.

MEMBER ♀

Nov 18, 11, 17:09 #40

Marco1968:

When you agree with someone you should respect it! At least on this side of Europe...

Dishonest people are everywhere !
In reality your Building administrator cannot force you to pay for the czyncz if you disagree .
He can take you to court but would have to provide all the official bills i mentionned previously regarding the building maintenance.(Which i doubt he has)
He can take you to court but given the fast speed of Polish justice you could always appeal and have this drag on for a long long time.
he has betrayed your confidence so just take your time, pay little and ask a lot of proofs for what you have to pay!

If he does not know about the concept of gentlemen agreement, why would you have to know about it?
After all as you said it is all about money

WedleThreads: 24 Posts: 786 Joined: Sep 27, 11 ♂	Edited by: Wedle Nov 18, 11, 19:06 #41
LwowskaKrakow: Dishonest people are everywhere ! Especially in Poland, Poles believe it is a national sport to disinform.

ReservoirDog	Nov 19, 11, 01:03 #42
CZYNSZ ladies and gentelmen is not what you all think. The administrator said truth, because you don't pay CZYNSZ but OPŁATY MIESZKANIOWE. You pay CZYNSZ when you rent a flat/house...only then. Owners don't pay CZYNSZ!!!. Czynsz, to według kodeksu cywilnego kwota, jaką wynajmujący* zobowiązuje się płacić właścicielowi lokalu za prawo do korzystania z niego*

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Nov 19, 11, 01:25 #43

Mike1968:

My basement was robbed (1000 euro worth wine)

If you've got a wine cellar and just use this place as some kind of holiday house, then you've got the cash to cover this. I understand that you feel scammed, but I think you're stuck. I am also a foreigner not living in Poland in the flat I own, and just got spanked for 2500 zlotys for an increase in the czynsz which I didn't know about. Suck it up and smile.

As far as selling the flat to get around paying it, good luck. Maybe if you sell the place without an agent to somebody who doesn't know that they have a right to proof that all bills are paid.

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Nov 19, 11, 15:03 #44

Marco1968:

and a kind of warning for other foreigns in Poland.

It would anger me if someone agreed to something and never kept their side.
My friend in Canada promised to pay me back $1,600 20 years ago and still hasn't.

Please don't make this a country thing - i had a landlord in Poland for 10 years and can not imagine anyone better/more honest.

When foreigners claim an issue results from 'Poland' they make all foreigners look bad.

If anyone is not happy here, please leave quickly.

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