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Foreigner buying house with 'Rolna'/Rural land in Poland - ever possible? Advice/help.

posts: 29

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Jul 2, 11, 22:52 #1

I'm a UK national living in Poland, with no formal family connections to the country. I own a small flat in Krakow, but I'm desperately trying to find a way to purchase an old farmhouse near Tarnow.

The problem is the house comes with 30,700m2 of land, and as a foreigner (with no Polish wife/family) I'm technically not allowed to buy a house that has Rolna/ Rural land attached. I can't buy the house without the land as the Gmina don't want to seperate it. The house has been empty for years, is decaying fast, and despite being the cheapest thing by far in the area, there is no local interest in it (so in no way would my purchase be preventing a local person finding a home) . The main reason is that it will be a long and expensive restoration (log cabin, thatch roof etc). I'm a specialist building conservator and as so few of these untouched farmhouses are left I'm willing to put in the time, money and effort to rescue the building (it will cost more than its value to restore). But I'm not allowed to buy Rolna land.

Any ideas? What if I set up a company in Poland (happy to do this)? Does anyone know a good property lawyer who speaks English?

I run a company in the UK and would love the opportunity to start a restoration company here in Poland but the regulation about foreigners not buying foreign land is preventing me. I've tried emailing the relevent person at the Polish ministry for development (who was English speaking) but didn't even get a reply.

Thank you for your time/advice

Greg

delphiandomineThreads: 42 Posts: 9,954 Joined: Nov 25, 08 ♂ [Suspended]	Jul 3, 11, 00:06 #2
Sminti: The problem is the house comes with 30,700m2 of land, and as a foreigner (with no Polish wife/family) I'm technically not allowed to buy a house that has Rolna/ Rural land attached. That restriction was abolished, as far as I'm aware. Quite possible that the local authorities aren't aware of this - but as far as I know, there are no longer restrictions on EU citizens owing such land.

peterwegThreads: 35 Posts: 1,997 Joined: Feb 16, 07 ♂	Jul 3, 11, 17:06 #3
You have to apply for a permit, which may take some time.

raina83Threads: 1 Posts: 3 Joined: Jul 2, 11 ♂	Jul 3, 11, 17:21 #4
It is a fairly simple matter of applying for a permit. There is some bureaucracy and paper work involved but it is manageable if you have a good real estate lawyer.

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Jul 3, 11, 19:10 #5

Thanks for the replies guys

The law stands until Spring 2016 I'm afraid.

You have to apply for a permit but you only get them if you can demonstrate strong Polish connections, which I don't have.

I tried to apply for a permit which is a long, slow and expensive process. Halfway through they wrote to me telling me I had no chance of getting a permit as I had no Polish connections, and that I'd be wise to retract my application unless I could evidence a Polish wife or parent/grandparent. :(

The sad thing is that the area is going to lose its last thatched traditional farmhouse - nobody local has any interest in it (not even when the price halved) as it will be a difficult restoration. I have the skills and money to do it, but am unable to purchase the property.

Anyone know a way around the system? Or can anyone recommend a good property lawyer who speaks English?

Thanks for your help
G

ukpolskaThreads: 51 Posts: 2,238 Joined: Oct 23, 06 MEMBER ♂	Jul 3, 11, 19:45 #6
I do believe there is some loophole in that you can buy a property as long as it is a holiday home, but I am not too sure on the conditions for this and how strictly it is enforced. All the land and property we own is owned jointly as husband and wife and there were no conditions on this, but I have lived here 13 years and have a permanent stay card as well as my own business.

hythornThreads: 6 Posts: 843 Joined: Feb 21, 08 ♂	Jul 3, 11, 19:57 #7
Sminti: Anyone know a way around the system? Or can anyone recommend a good property lawyer who speaks English? please send me a private email

ukpolskaThreads: 51 Posts: 2,238 Joined: Oct 23, 06 MEMBER ♂	Jul 3, 11, 20:12 #8
hythorn: please send me a private email Why private? With respect I am sure any knowledge you have may help other people here ;0)

hythornThreads: 6 Posts: 843 Joined: Feb 21, 08 ♂	Jul 3, 11, 23:20 #9
i am not going to broadcast the contact details to a respected colleague on an internet site made up mainly of trolls

JonnyMThreads: 16 Posts: 4,487 Joined: Mar 9, 11 ♂	Jul 3, 11, 23:33 #10
Sminti: What if I set up a company in Poland It doesn't make a difference - unless the ownership of the company is 50% Polish. hythorn: i am not going to broadcast the contact details to a respected colleague on an internet site made up mainly of trolls Strange - why not PM him yourself?

SmintiThreads: 4 Posts: 17 Joined: May 23, 11 ♂	Jul 6, 11, 08:13 #11
Thanks for your help guys. Seems my only real option is to give the money to a trusted friend to buy it in his/her name...and fingers crossed!

Wroclaw BoyThreads: 57 Posts: 5,478 Joined: Jul 3, 09 MEMBER ♂	Jul 6, 11, 08:24 #12
Sminti: Thanks for your help guys. Seems my only real option is to give the money to a trusted friend to buy it in his/her name...and fingers crossed! there are no trusted friends in money, dont do that. Try Piotra smagala in wroclaw, setting up a company seems your best bet.

hague1cmaeronThreads: 21 Posts: 1,654 Joined: Mar 30, 10 ♂	Jul 6, 11, 11:20 #13
Sminti: Thanks for your help guys. Seems my only real option is to give the money to a trusted friend to buy it in his/her name...and fingers crossed! Good luck I hope your investment and restoration work comes to fruition, as well as the restoration company that you want to set up sounds like a great idea.

warszawskiThreads: 60 Posts: 2,389 Joined: May 21, 10 ♂	Jul 6, 11, 13:28 #14
Sminti: Thanks for your help guys. Seems my only real option is to give the money to a trusted friend to buy it in his/her name...and fingers crossed! Simple is best, become a Polish resident...

WroclawThreads: 77 Posts: 7,404 Joined: Apr 1, 06 ♂ [Moderator]	Jul 6, 11, 14:41 #15
Sminti: Thanks for your help guys. Seems my only real option is to give the money to a trusted friend to buy it in his/her name...and fingers crossed! not wise at all. in your friend's name, you do the work, the value of the property goes up, he takes another friend's advice, gets a lawyer, and leaves you broke. it's one of the Polish ways in business. they take no prisoners.

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Jul 7, 11, 10:18 #16

thanks for the advice

I heard that simply becoming a resident won't help me get the permit - I'd still need the family connection which I don't have.

I'd happily become resident as I live here anyway (currently employed in UK via internet, but live and work here) and I own my flat in Krakow.

will investigate the company option - even at 50% ownership by Polish friend is better than 0% in just giving the money to a friend to buy in their name. the problem with that last option is the restoration will cost more than double the price of the house, so there would be a considerable capital increase in value by the time the law changes to allow foreigners to buy in 2016.

G

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Jul 7, 11, 10:48 #17

Sminti:

The problem is the house comes with 30,700m2 of land

If there is an existing house, a section of the land must be " działkę budowlaną ". The current owner of the land/property may not have applied for documentation, normally because it takes time and costs money. The situation you find yourself in 2011, is quite simple to sort out, you need to find the correct person to assist you in this matter. A lawyer in Tarnow, that is familiar with real estate matters, you will also have to be honest with the person about your legal status in PL. The first stage will be you becoming a resident and paying tax in PL.

SmintiThreads: 4 Posts: 17 Joined: May 23, 11 ♂	Jul 7, 11, 21:23 #18
thanks - yes a small part of the plot is Budlowlana - the problem is that the rest is 'rolna' and foreigners aren't allowed to buy rolna without permit, and permits only given if you have Polish ancestry. :( Greg

WroclawThreads: 77 Posts: 7,404 Joined: Apr 1, 06 ♂ [Moderator]	Edited by: Wroclaw Jul 7, 11, 21:38 #19
Sminti: yes a small part of the plot is Budlowlana why can't you just buy this part. and risk your friend (with your money) buy the other part. you must be able to come to some sort of arrangement. offer a couple of favours to the land owner. edit: or find a local farmer who is only interested in the land.

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Edited by: warszawski Jul 7, 11, 23:06 #20

Sminti:

hanks - yes a small part of the plot is Budlowlana - the problem is that the rest is 'rolna' and foreigners aren't allowed to buy rolna without permit, and permits only given if you have Polish ancestry. :(
Greg

Greg, if there is will, there is a way. Find a Polish lawyer in his 30's, explain your situation in full and ask him to do the job for you. Pay him on a win fee basis only ( fair price ). Most of these young lawyers know the law can be an arse ( sometimes) and they will find a solution for you. Poles can be very determined and creative, when pride is concerned. Good luck and don't give up on your dream.

SeanBMThreads: 41 Posts: 8,727 Joined: Mar 10, 08 ♂	Edited by: SeanBM Jul 7, 11, 23:12 #21
Sminti: What if I set up a company in Poland (happy to do this)? I think buying it in a Polish company should do it, ring a lawyer though, it should be your first question.

SmintiThreads: 4 Posts: 17 Joined: May 23, 11 ♂	Jul 8, 11, 10:22 #22
thanks for the advice everyone :) Greg

brisrodneyThreads: 1 Posts: 23 Joined: Jul 13, 11 ♂	Jul 13, 11, 19:55 #23
I agree no friends or family when it comes to money

JonnyMThreads: 16 Posts: 4,487 Joined: Mar 9, 11 ♂	Jul 13, 11, 20:58 #24
SeanBM: I think buying it in a Polish company should do it It makes no difference. Depends on the ownership of the company.

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Jul 16, 11, 10:23 #25

in case it helps others in future - it seems the best solution is to

1. try and buy the plot of 'budowlana' outright in normal way - ie just the house and immediate garden
2. sign a contract on the 'rolna' until 2016 to rent it, with a pre-arranged purchase price of the land in 2016.

note that whenever you buy anything in Poland the government checks the value of it after if it seems to be too cheap (in case you've avoided tax), so not to arrange too low a value on the land.

it took me 2 years to get to understand this, so hope it saves someone else the hassle I've been through!

thanks everyone for your advice.

polishmortgagesThreads: 7 Posts: 20 Joined: Jun 22, 10 ♂	Jul 23, 11, 15:24 #26
halo, to be honest the only option to check if the bank can chase you in UK is to ask a lawyer, but the good one. Any one of you have spoken with lawyers? Now I am at the stage of checking it for one of my customers, but if anyone want to receive some info, please write me daniel(at)polishmortgages(dot).eu. I will not paste a such information on the forum... regards

delphiandomineThreads: 42 Posts: 9,954 Joined: Nov 25, 08 ♂ [Suspended]	Jul 23, 11, 15:26 #27
I will not paste a such information on the forum... Why not? You advertise on here - so the least you could do is share information.

milkyThreads: 10 Posts: 1,229 Joined: Oct 26, 09 ♀	Edited by: milky Jul 23, 11, 15:29 #28
to be honest Polishmortgages LOL

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Aug 2, 11, 09:55 #29

I purchased around 4 acres in Zawoja some 5 years ago it was a royal pain in the butt and took nearly 6 months to complete.I had no connection to Poland at the time.Every form of ID from passport to bank statements,birth cert had to be translated in to Polish by a
registered translator.At the final meeting with the notary and the people selling the land again a registered translator had to be present.It seemed like a never ending process with visits to the local public office to get various bits of paper work stamped.I can build on the land all be it a small section due to local restrictions.It is possible but it take time and make sure you get friendly with the local Wojt ;-)

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