Luksa - Big problems with developer in Lwowska, Krakow

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Mar 4, 08, 03:29 #1

Anyone out there trying to buy property in Krakow through a builder called Luksa. We (3 Irish guys) are being screwed big time. We signed preliminary agreements in 2006 with relevant solicitor agreements and notarial sign off and paid 10% deposit and now the builder is now claiming that he can't get planning permit for our three apartments. We assume he is trying to offload us from the deal so that he can sell on and get a higher price. Our Polish solicitor is dealing with the issue but the builder is resolute in claimimg that there is no building permit. For some reason we cannot legally check out whether or not he even applied for a permit or whther this is a scam similar to the Bud Mar trails I have been reading on this site. How did that resolve itself. Anyone else in same boat.

silooy	Mar 8, 08, 11:23 #2
Did your agreement state that the project was conditional on receiving local building permission (most development contracts do in my experience) if yes, then there is not much you can do, but presumably you should get your 10% back if your contract was worded correctly.

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Mar 19, 08, 03:27 #3

I work for a real estate agency here in Krakow. We had two clients invest in this development with Luksa (called 'Lwowska Residence'). I am not sure the reasoning behind the developer not wanting to proceed with this investment. More than likely they sold it too cheaply in the first place, and either want to sell on the plot or resell the apartments at higher prices. Obviously, this is a developer not to be trusted. My advice to you is to try and get your money back, and then move on. One of our clients has already been paid his money back (plus a penalty), and the other one should have his money back shortly.
Regarding your question about Bud Mar and it's investment nearby ('Adonis Residence' I think it is called). Well, they are very close to delivering the finished apartments. Very late, but at least the clients will get what they paid for, unlike Lwowska Residence

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Mar 19, 08, 11:48 #4

I appreciate your thoughts. Our solicitor is trying to first of all establish whether he has the funds to repay us our deposits plus penalty. I'd be interested to find out in your opinion what would the developer do if we just hung on in there - could he sell on to third party or resell at higher price while we were still refusing to sign any agreement cancelling our preliminary agreement. ITs a real shame cause we (3 in total) have lost over 2 years growth and Lwowska is such a nice spot.

thedomThreads: 1 Posts: 9 Joined: Mar 4, 08 ♂	Mar 21, 08, 07:09 #5
Did your clients negotiate an 'amicable termination' fee from Luksa in addition to the fixed 20% penalty. If so how much? I still would like to know what happens if we refuse to sign termination and just hang on - do we risk losing all?

erangeyjj	Mar 24, 08, 07:33 #6
I terminated the contract and am due to receive repayment on the 1st of April to include deposit (plus 20%) and any expenses incurred. My suggestion would be to immediately cancel your contract. At this stage I wouldn't believe anything what this developer says. You would be brave to hang on.

Guest	Apr 7, 08, 17:35 #7
Just to keep you updated. I was due to get my deposit back plus compensation by the 2nd April 2008. I followed the correct procedure and went through a notary accompanied by a lawyer to cancel the contract with the agreement also being signed by a representative of LUKSA. As expected they did not pay anything.

hullo	Apr 8, 08, 02:28 #8
Guest: As expected they did not pay anything. What made you think they would??? Once a company is going bad, the directors make sure the funds are taken out and put into overseas accounts and try getting blood from a stone. Luksa is not the only company having problems!

MEMBER ♀

Apr 12, 08, 14:00 #9

thedom:

. Our Polish solicitor is dealing with the issue but the builder is resolute in claimimg that there is no building permit.

What are you doing guys?Why don't you go to court with your lawyer?
These bandits/developers have to stop ripping off people!
They claim they don't have a buiding permit? Then just wait until they get it!
They cannot breach the contract unless you accept.
They will sell the flats 3 times what they warranteed you would pay, for sure.
The only problem is that you have to be ready to wait for a long long time before getting your flats.But you should stick to them and shake the city! Go to the mayor! Write to Donald Tusk and some newspapers!
I am one of the buyers from Lwowska Krakow/Bud Mar and we are still waiting after almost 3 years!

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Apr 14, 08, 05:11 #10

Good advice but will it work. We were informed by legal rep that in the interim there is no guarantee that Luksa won't sell investment to third party and the third party could change original plans (the project of the new third party developer may be completely different from original). In that case, the conclusion of the promised contract would be impossible.
Don't mind sitting it out if it takes that to get apartment.

thedomThreads: 1 Posts: 9 Joined: Mar 4, 08 ♂	Apr 25, 08, 05:52 #11
I heard a rumour that demolition had started onsite -any truth in that. Did you get your money back + 20% yet?

erangeyjj	Apr 29, 08, 13:50 #12
No money yet. I was told that Luksa were to draw down a mortgage at the start of April to allow them to make payments. For the past 3 weeks I am being told that they are going to pay next week, getting the runaround. I sent the cancellation contract to my lawyer today and I am waiting for them to get back to me with information on what I can do next. I will keep you posted....

Guest	May 2, 08, 13:43 #13
Hi Guys, Hopefully after several months of troubles with Mr. Liszka finally I got back my money (even 2 weeks longer than was written in the contract). Luksa paid me deposit + 20% penalty + cost of contract and agency fee ! So NEVER again anybody with LUKSA, PAWO (clone of LUKSA) and Mr. Liszka !!!

Wroclaw Boy

May 2, 08, 13:46 #14

Guest:

Hi Guys,

Hopefully after several months of troubles with Mr. Liszka finally I got back my money (even 2 weeks longer than was written in the contract).
Luksa paid me deposit + 20% penalty + cost of contract and agency fee !

So NEVER again anybody with LUKSA, PAWO (clone of LUKSA) and Mr. Liszka !!!

Glad to hear it although it sounds as though Mr Liszka still made a sizeable profit taking into consideration the massive capital appreciation sustained in krakow from when you placed your deposit till now.

Is the development still being built?

Guest

May 2, 08, 15:53 #15

Wroclaw Boy:

Glad to hear it although it sounds as though Mr Liszka still made a sizeable profit taking into consideration the massive capital appreciation sustained in krakow from when you placed your deposit till now.

Is the development still being built?

It seems that Mr Liszka is trying to sell it

allegro.pl/show_item.php?item=335381130

From my previous investigation it seems to be very difficult to build there anything because of neighbours protest - the "Lwowska Residence" building is too high and it will make shadow to the neighbours residence ...

The pity is that Mr. Liszka is fully aware of it this problem and he used investors and now he wants to sell this **** to others !!!!

thedomThreads: 1 Posts: 9 Joined: Mar 4, 08 ♂	May 7, 08, 06:25 #16
If demolition has started - who is doing it and surely demolition can't start without agreement on what is going to be built there. Can anyone ascertain for me if this is Lwowska Residence site being demolished.

erialc43Threads: 3 Posts: 48 Joined: May 6, 08 ♀	May 7, 08, 09:59 #17
This fiasco does worry me. Where are all the positive aspects of buying property in Poland? C

inkrakow	May 7, 08, 10:10 #18
some of the positive aspects are now sitting in my bank account... you'll get dodgy developers everywhere, particularly if you don't want to/can't come over and get involved.

erialc43Threads: 3 Posts: 48 Joined: May 6, 08 ♀	May 7, 08, 10:22 #19
inkrakow: some of the positive aspects are now sitting in my bank account... you'll get dodgy developers everywhere, particularly if you don't want to/can't come over and get involved. I am thinking of moving to Poland for 6-12 months, renting initially, see how the land lies, and possibly buy an appartment once I am happy with everything. What advice would you give me? Claire

inkrakow	May 7, 08, 13:14 #20
Buy now while prices are depressed and buyers are thin on the ground.

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May 8, 08, 04:33 #21

Morning all,

just found this link and we are in Lwowska as well ! our lawyer has been chasing and chasing Luska for months to get some sort of answers, they 'lost' our expenses claim more times than i care to remember. We have set them a deadline of 15th May and then we're taking them to court... another lengthy process im told. On the up side, Im assured by our lawyer that they cannot sell the land as certainly we did and im sure others did register our interests on the land registry. I think the money will come back at some point, but probably only when the developer wants to either sell or pull his finger out and actually build something there.

This is a real shame because we have some other investments in Krakow that have done very well indeed, you win some you lose some i guess !

Guest

May 8, 08, 13:40 #22

Hello again,

I will check the status of existing building of Lwowska, but I'm sure nothing happened there. There are several people living still in this building and last year even I noticed that they replaced old windows for the new one (just guess who will invest his own money while he knows that building will be destroyed).

Mr. Liszka is lying and promising faster than he's breathing ;)

The only one solution is to call him as often as possible - sometimes I called him twice per day all the week !

You need to be very careful because now of course they can't sell land, but if you will agree to terminate agreement they usually setting long payment time so it is possible to sell it in mean time and then money will disappear :(

Normally Developer is proud of his brand name but they ( Liszka and Co) are dealing with 4 - 5 different names and always they are selling apartments through the real-estate agency in order to not have so many people in their fake office ...

BTW: have you guys been in their office ? - Amazing 2 secretary working for dozen of different companies like Luksa, Pawo, etc in parallel ;)

there is even no Luksa logo at the entrance of the office and door

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May 11, 08, 15:42 #23

Thay are trying to sell the development but it was unsuccesful at auction. We 3 are sticking our ground for now. Our names are on the register of land and mortgages for that site. The only way out for us is a healthy settlement or he builds what he promised us according to our orginal agreement. Lets keep all interested parties posted of anything new regarding this development using this posting thread.

Later

MEMBER ♀

May 11, 08, 19:39 #24

Guest:

BTW: have you guys been in their office ? - Amazing 2 secretary working for dozen of different companies like Luksa, Pawo, etc in parallel ;)

Wow incredible ! Dozen of different companies ...Such a dishonest way of conduct business should really be punished.
They are some real bandits in the Krakow Real Estate and development industry.
Naive buyers should be informed about the good and bad developers .
Where is their office?( The Luksa office?)

Guest	May 14, 08, 08:21 #25
I was informed my an estate agent that some demolition has started on site

Guest	May 14, 08, 08:23 #26
contact details Grupa Inwestycyjna Pawo sp. z o.o. ul. Wielopole 18B, 31-072 Kraków NIP: 676-23-00-867 REGON: 120084120 KRS: 0000241966 ING BANK ŚLĄSKI O/Kraków 98 1050 1445 1000 0022 9512 1780 tel. (0048 12) 429 37 11 fax (0048 12) 294 44 92 e-mail: biuro@pawokrakow.pl Internet: pawokrakow.pl

Guest	May 16, 08, 11:11 #27
seems Luksa does not want their location known. pawokrakow.pl is no longer available as the DNS, website, was deleted 2008-05-16 16:12:14 MEST as per internet page dns.pl/deleted_domains.txt

Guest	May 16, 08, 11:15 #28
have a look at the following forum discussing Grupa Inwestycyjna Pawo (LUKSA) forum.gazeta.pl/forum/72,2.html?f=778&w=54286156

SeanBMThreads: 41 Posts: 8,647 Joined: Mar 10, 08 ♂	May 16, 08, 11:39 #29
Guest: have a look at the following forum discussing Grupa Inwestycyjna Pawo (LUKSA) I am sorry but I do not speak Polish well enough, could you give us the gist of the discussion, please.

Guest	May 16, 08, 17:08 #30
DOMAIN:pawokrakow.pl is undergoing verification created:2007.05.15 14:14:07 last modified:2007.05.29 option: the domain name has not option REGISTRAR: Grupa Onet.pl SA ul. G. Zapolskiej 44 30 - 126 Kraków Polska/Poland +48. 12 2600200 bok@onet.pl

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