PLN 2,500 the going rate for an apartment in Poland

plk123Threads: 30 Posts: 6,412 Joined: Aug 29, 07 ♂	Edited by: Administrator May 25, 10, 17:03 #1
Pola: PLN 2500 wow! thread created by mod

pgtxThreads: 49 Posts: 6,327 Joined: Feb 14, 09 MEMBER ♀	May 25, 10, 17:09 #2
isn't it cheaper just to buy than to rent...?

dtaylor5632Threads: 49 Posts: 4,459 Joined: May 2, 09 ♂	May 25, 10, 17:15 #3
It's about the usual price when punting towards foreigners. I've seen a few places in Krakow going for upto 4k a month for 2 bedrooms and a living room. Generally the reason you will have 6 students to a 3 bedroomed flat.

♂

Edited by: plk123 May 25, 10, 17:22 #4

pgtx:

isn't it cheaper just to buy than to rent...?

it's gotta be..

dtaylor5632:

I've seen a few places in Krakow going for upto 4k a month for 2 bedrooms and a living room. Generally the reason you will have 6 students to a 3 bedroomed flat.

it would have to be.. no one can afford that kind of crazy price.. this completely validates everything said in the other polish property thread..

pgtx:

rip-off...

something... jeezas..

milkyThreads: 10 Posts: 1,229 Joined: Oct 26, 09 ♀	May 25, 10, 18:27 #5
This has to be a joke...2 people working would hardly earn this in a month.. Thing are really messed up if he gets anything near this(criminal)

MEMBER ♂

May 25, 10, 18:31 #6

milky:

This has to be a joke...2 people working would hardly earn this in a month..

Im afraid its not Milky, I advertised a similar apartment 53 m2 in fact with two sepearte bedrooms and achieved 2400 PLN / month (excluding bills) two years ago!! I actually could have rented it 5 times over from one advert.

Dont ask me where they get the money form but rest assured they do....

Private ads get loads of attention as the potential tenents know theres no agency commission.

♂ [Suspended]

Edited by: delphiandomine May 25, 10, 18:31 #7

milky:

This has to be a joke...2 people working would hardly earn this in a month

Really? And how many people earning such low money expect to live in a 60sqm apartment in a decent location, furnished to a very high, modern standard?

2500PLN is nothing for a professional couple.

Sure, if you're staying at home looking after the baby (because no-one will employ you) while your wife works in a poorly paid job because she didn't go to a real university - then 2500PLN is a stretch.

plk123:

no one can afford that kind of crazy price..

Really? Take IT guys - a professional couple, one practicing IT and one as a lawyer can reasonably expect to take home in the region of 8000-10000PLN in their late 20's in Wroclaw. What's 2500PLN for rent?

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Edited by: convex May 25, 10, 18:38 #8

milky:

This has to be a joke...2 people working would hardly earn this in a month.. Thing are really messed up if he gets anything near this(criminal)

2500 with utilities for a furnished apartment in the center is criminal?

Average salaries here run about 3300/mo. That's about 2700 net.

What's everyone whining about?

Full time starting out at McDonalds and you've got 1100/mo in your pocket at the end of the month.

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May 25, 10, 18:47 #9

milky:

This has to be a joke...2 people working would hardly earn this in a month.. Thing are really messed up if he gets anything near this(criminal)

Welcome to the EU. Did you really think that you would get all that money for motorways without some kind of payback? We've had to put up with this overpricing nonsense for years!

That said, I don't pay much more for a similar amount of space over here, and I've got outside space, too. I know where I'd rather live (clue: it's not Poland ;) ).

All that money spent on "trendy" furnishings and they still went and put net curtains in the living room!! lmao! Horrible colour scheme, too.

But where's the photo of Pope John Paul II? How can you have a Polish flat without one of those??? :)

WroclawThreads: 77 Posts: 7,404 Joined: Apr 1, 06 ♂ [Moderator]	May 25, 10, 18:56 #10
SouthMancPolak: and they still went and put net curtains in the living room That's standard for Poland. It also might tell one that the view across the street is another block.

SouthMancPolakThreads: 2 Posts: 202 Joined: Apr 10, 10 ♂	May 25, 10, 18:59 #11
Wroclaw: That's standard for Poland. It also might tell one that the view across the street is another block. More proof that Poles have little sense of style. Everyone knows it's all about Venetian blinds ;)

pgtxThreads: 49 Posts: 6,327 Joined: Feb 14, 09 MEMBER ♀	May 25, 10, 19:04 #12
convex: What's everyone whining about? well, it's lots of money... better buy an apt...

convexThreads: 46 Posts: 7,185 Joined: Nov 25, 09 ♂	May 25, 10, 19:10 #13
pgtx: well, it's lots of money... better buy an apt... Compared to what? Other furnished apartments with bills paid in central Wroclaw? Renting is cheaper than buying at the moment.

Wroclaw BoyThreads: 57 Posts: 5,478 Joined: Jul 3, 09 MEMBER ♂	May 25, 10, 19:15 #14
This all sounds rosey but getting the money from the buggers on time every month is another story all together. Credit checks and references should be scrutinised, i dont think thats practised in poland.

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May 25, 10, 19:30 #15

So the average wage is close to 700 euro a month is it...well thats great to hear...Is that true?????
are the Polish the second class citizens of europe that they must pay this price and have western europeans justifyng it. I earn about 700 euro a week in Ireland and I pay the same rent as is wanted for this..
Even if you earn 2700 zloty a month how can handing over all your wages to the lanlord be justified...what a mess

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May 25, 10, 19:48 #16

Haven't been back to Poland for a while eh? Anyway, a couple of months ago, the average salary here was around €950 a month...

There are apartments outside of the center which are somewhat cheaper.

so €700/week is about what, €2200 a month after taxes? So how much is a furnished 60m2 apartment in central Dublin with all bills paid? While we're at it, how much is a beer and a pack of smokes going for now a days?

Is real estate overpriced? Sure. Is rental property unaffordable...nope.

convexThreads: 46 Posts: 7,185 Joined: Nov 25, 09 ♂	May 25, 10, 20:18 #17
Anyway, the people that live here, in Wroclaw, know where this apartment stands in the scheme of things.

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Edited by: delphiandomine May 25, 10, 21:43 #18

pgtx:

well, it's lots of money... better buy an apt...

Easier said than done in a country where the banks are very risk adverse and exchange rates are extremely volatile right now.

Wroclaw Boy:

Credit checks and references should be scrutinised, i dont think thats practised in poland.

Is there even a central credit database like in the UK?

References, without a shadow of a doubt.

milky:

Even if you earn 2700 zloty a month how can handing over all your wages to the lanlord be justified...what a mess

As I said - if you're unemployable and having to live off your partner's salary (which isn't very high because she went to a private university to earn a joke degree in "marketing" or likewise) - 2700zl is a lot of money. But then again, you can't expect to live in a fully furnished apartment in a good location if you're earning that kind of money, either.

I'm not sure why people are so shocked at higher-end apartments being priced at a level that only higher-end people can afford.

convex:

While we're at it, how much is a beer and a pack of smokes going for now a days?

Beer is running at what, about 4-6 euro in Dublin. Cigarettes - last time I was there, they were running about 8 euro a packet.

pgtxThreads: 49 Posts: 6,327 Joined: Feb 14, 09 MEMBER ♀	May 25, 10, 21:47 #19
delphiandomine: higher-end apartments being priced at a level that only higher-end people can afford. yeah... i guess so...

delphiandomineThreads: 42 Posts: 9,954 Joined: Nov 25, 08 ♂ [Suspended]	May 25, 10, 21:49 #20
pgtx: yeah... i guess so... Look on the other side though - you can get reasonable flats in reasonable (non-city) locations for an absolute killing. I found one flat in Kalisz (not a small town by any stretch of the imagination) for 75,000zl - that is absolutely nothing!

pgtxThreads: 49 Posts: 6,327 Joined: Feb 14, 09 MEMBER ♀	May 25, 10, 21:53 #21
would any of you living abroad recommend buying an apartment in Poland, rent it out and try to manage it from across the ocean...?

SeanBMThreads: 41 Posts: 8,727 Joined: Mar 10, 08 ♂	May 25, 10, 21:54 #22
Pola: MODERN APARTMENT IN WROCŁAW FROM NOW And by the look of the photos, not a straight wall in the whole place :)

convexThreads: 46 Posts: 7,185 Joined: Nov 25, 09 ♂	May 25, 10, 21:55 #23
pgtx: would any of you living abroad recommend buying an apartment in Poland, rent it out and try to manage it from across the ocean...? Rental income will barely cover the mortgage (if at all). Buy gold, thank me for it in 5 years.

SeanBMThreads: 41 Posts: 8,727 Joined: Mar 10, 08 ♂	May 25, 10, 21:56 #24
pgtx: would any of you living abroad recommend buying an apartment in Poland, rent it out and try to manage it from across the ocean...? It depends where but in city centres, no not yet. Also, it would be better if you gave it to a reputable company to let it out and look after it, on your behalf.

pgtxThreads: 49 Posts: 6,327 Joined: Feb 14, 09 MEMBER ♀	May 25, 10, 21:59 #25
SeanBM: It depends where but in city centres, no not yet. what about buying a bit of land and build a house? not in the city center of course... SeanBM: it would be better if you gave it to a reputable company to let it out and look after it, on your behalf. how much do they take? i would worry that my apartment gets ruined...

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Edited by: plk123 May 25, 10, 22:00 #26

convex:

Buy gold, thank me for it in 5 years.

terrible idea at the moment.. the next bubble to pop.

pgtx:

would any of you living abroad recommend buying an apartment in Poland, rent it out and try to manage it from across the ocean...?

nope..

SeanBM:

Also, it would be better if you gave it to a reputable company to let it out and look after it, on your behalf.

you'll get raped by those scoundrels.

♂

Edited by: convex May 25, 10, 22:06 #27

This is like some impossible math problem...

There is an apartment for sale, same buildings, same street, except it's 52m2...415,000zl

Which is about "normal". Say you put 20% down in cash, about 90,000, and take a 30 year credit for the remainder. That puts your monthly payments for a smaller apartment than is advertised her at between 1900 and 2200 a month.

What a deal!

plk123:

terrible idea at the moment.. the next bubble to pop.

It's a great idea. It's not an asset bubble, it's a safe haven from debt laden paper.

How the hell did we get here on an ad?

plk123Threads: 30 Posts: 6,412 Joined: Aug 29, 07 ♂	Edited by: plk123 May 25, 10, 22:09 #28
convex: What a deal! is that sarcasm? at least YOU own that appt.. no? convex: It's a great idea. It's not an asset bubble, it's a safe haven from debt laden paper. it's way overpriced at the moment.. it's bound to crash soon enough.. just you watch

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Edited by: convex May 25, 10, 22:13 #29

plk123:

at least YOU own that appt.. no?

You won't be able to cover expenses with the rent, and I think they are way way way overpriced for all the reasons mentioned earlier.

So you **** away 90k of liquid capital and chain yourself to 30 years of payments in exchange for a piece of property that you can rent for less money...and is in a market that is currently on the ass-end of a bubble.

With regards to gold, heard the same thing a year ago...

The big boys are building up their gold holdings... China, India, Japan... The worlds creditors are starting to lose interest in treasuries, which means they don't trust the ability of the currency to hold value, which means the paper is worthless.

♂

Edited by: dtaylor5632 May 25, 10, 22:18 #30

This is quite typical of Krakow as well. Problem with the "average" wage is that it doesn't represent the majority. Generally it is boosted up due to some very very high earning directors compared to the "normal" employees of a company.
An Accountant working for an international company with a masters degree in Finance and Accounting would expect as a wage of about 2500pln per month (before tax). This is why it is written into their contracts that they cannot discuss their pay with anyone. The same position with the same company in the USA or Western Europe would be about 4k-6000 dollars. Pretty sh1t position to be in to be honest.
In the last 2 places I stayed in Krakow I shared with a Young husband and wife because even though He worked as an engineer in Germany and she as a Nurse in Poland, they still couldn't get credit to buy or had enough money to rent. :(

In Scotland I rent a 3 bedroom place in a very desirable area back and front garden. Bills included it costs me only £350 a month. A lot cheaper than it would in Poland. That's what is fecked up.

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