Poland: the building boom goes on

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Jun 25, 10, 21:48 #1

The Polish GDP train never stops Grrr!!!!

A report by Raiffeisen International, the Austrian bank, predicts spending on road and rail construction will remain high for the next two or three years, and when those projects begin to come to a close, the country’s huge huge need for power generation investment - estimated at more than 100bn zlotys ($30bn) to 2020 - will provide another boost for the construction sector.

Those projects make Poland the biggest construction site in Europe – surpassing even London’s preparations for the Olympic games. The scope of new road construction is attracting international attention – China’s COVEC is building two chunks of Poland’s main east-west highway – but the biggest beneficiaries are likely to be local construction companies. Funding for road building is to peak this year at about 35bn zlotys, and will fall slowly after that – but the prospect for new players to get into the market is limited as a lot of the biggest contracts have already been put out to tender.

http://blogs.ft.com/beyond-brics/2010/06/25/poland-the-building-boom-g oes-on/

SeanusThreads: 22 Posts: 30,158 Joined: Dec 25, 07 ♂	Jun 26, 10, 20:09 #2
It wasn't maintained across the board and Poland's GDP also dipped during the crisis. It stands to reason. Also, much assistance came from EU funds and willing Chinese participation.

joepilsudskiThreads: 44 Posts: 2,529 Joined: Apr 27, 07 ♂	Jun 26, 10, 20:30 #3
Building infrastructure a good thing.

David_18Threads: 111 Posts: 1,212 Joined: Jan 4, 07 ♂	Jun 26, 10, 20:31 #4
Seanus: Chinese participation Maybe europe has something to learn from the chinese?

SeanusThreads: 22 Posts: 30,158 Joined: Dec 25, 07 ♂	Jun 26, 10, 20:37 #5
We do learn from them in ways.

THE HITMANThreads: 1 Posts: 416 Joined: Jun 15, 10 ♂	Jun 27, 10, 00:55 #6
David_18: Those projects make Poland the biggest construction site in Europe – surpassing even London’s preparations for the Olympic games. This is comparing a country to a city. It,s all optimistic speculation. There,s no building boom whatsoever.

David_18Threads: 111 Posts: 1,212 Joined: Jan 4, 07 ♂	Jun 27, 10, 01:06 #7
THE HITMAN: This is comparing a country to a city. It,s all optimistic speculation. There,s no building boom whatsoever. They were comparing Warsaw to London. And how do you speculate in Govermental funds?

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Jun 30, 10, 22:20 #8

David_18:

They were comparing Warsaw to London.

David_18:

Those projects make Poland the biggest construction site in Europe – surpassing even London’s preparations for the Olympic games.

I can read !

Anyway I still don,t think Warsaws economy surpasses Londons by a long shot. We,ve been down this road before on this forum and prooved the bulls4it figures given by Poland.

David_18:

And how do you speculate in Govermental funds?

Borrowed money. GDP can go the same way as Greece. Already the Poles are making excuses for the forthcoming year, where EU hand-outs will be limited.

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Jul 1, 10, 12:28 #9

THE HITMAN:

Borrowed money. GDP can go the same way as Greece. Already the Poles are making excuses for the forthcoming year, where EU hand-outs will be limited.

Maybe the poles should learn from the brittish?

Brittish super economy!!!

Exports $351.3 billion (2009 est.)

Imports $473.6 billion (2009 est.)

Gross external debt $9.088 trillion (30 June 2009) Second largest debt in the world.

Public finances

Revenues $819.9 billion (2009 est.)
Expenses $1.132 trillion (2009 est.)

This ecenomy is going down pretty soon...

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Jul 1, 10, 12:53 #10

David_18:

The Polish GDP train never stops Grrr!!!!

Don't be so optipistic, David. Don't look at the present economic situation, but look ahead what may happen in about three years. Public finances of Poland are pretty much in the same state now as Spain's were three years ago. Of course, we don't have one million newly-build unsold homes, but our public deficit is quite high and growing. Even in the years of the greatest prosperity we run a budget deficit, while Spain had not. The cost of servicing the debt was and is much lower in the case of Spain as they enjoy lower interest rates of the eurozone, than it is in the case of Poland since we don't have the euro. A decent curb on public deficit looks pretty unlikely as a parliamentary election is due next year in Poland and politictians bid high in their promises.

milkyThreads: 10 Posts: 1,229 Joined: Oct 26, 09 ♀	Jul 18, 10, 17:10 #11
Ziemowit: Don't be so optipistic, David. Don't look at the present economic situation, but look ahead what may happen in about three years What would happen if the majority Poles abroad had to return home due to the world recession. It would be back to square one again. Tusk and Co would have to admit that nothing has been achieved and that its all illusion perpetuated by spin.

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Edited by: peterweg Jul 22, 10, 09:00 #12

milky:

What would happen if the majority Poles abroad had to return home due to the world recession.

Why would they return when most of them can claim British unemployment benefit?
Few do, however because Poles are not in jobs that will be hit by the recession. Even those jobs that are lower paid, after a year they can claim tax credits. £5000 a year for my friends father who is sending it back to Poland to support his six children.

milky:

Tusk and Co would have to admit that nothing has been achieved and that its all illusion perpetuated by spin.

When you pump money into an economy, it doesn't tend to disappear. People spend it on houses, consumer goods and higher wages.

As the report by the Austrian Bank says, house prices are going to go up..

convexThreads: 46 Posts: 7,185 Joined: Nov 25, 09 ♂	Jul 22, 10, 09:29 #13
Stop the presses, a major financier of construction projects says that there will be more construction projects for years to come?

VarsovianThreads: 91 Posts: 568 Joined: Nov 23, 06 ♂	Jul 22, 10, 10:52 #14
Yeah, sure the Chinese helped. I mean, they have been awarded ONE cut price highway construction contract, and fairly minor at that. However, what is slightly worrying is that the govt signed immigration deals with the Indian and Chinese govts allowing up to 100k people of each nationality entry into Poland. No-one kicked up a fuss at all.

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Jul 22, 10, 11:05 #15

milky:

What would happen if the majority Poles abroad had to return home due to the world recession.

a lot of Polish builders have already returned to Poland. You can spot the ones who were working in the UK as they are the ones sporting new DeWalt cordless power tools.
I have met so many Polish people who came back and who had these great ideas of opening private businesses and changing the world and were just demotivated by bureaucracy and apathy back home.

However the ones who do come home will have a completely different view on life than the ones who stayed unemployed in Poland and didn't do a damn thing except moan about not being able to find work.

you are far better off riding out a recession in the UK where you have ultra cheap processed food from Iceland and where welfare covers most of your outgoings.
Polish friends of mine were given council housing in Glasgow (admittedly in the Govan) after being in Scotland for only three months.

milkyThreads: 10 Posts: 1,229 Joined: Oct 26, 09 ♀	Jul 24, 10, 10:26 #16
My point was "If they returned back to Poland" My point is that it would be very similar to the pre 2005 state. Unemployment etc..

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Jul 27, 10, 17:16 #17

milky:

My point was "If they returned back to Poland" My point is that it would be very similar to the pre 2005 state. Unemployment etc..

maybe for some of them yes. however for many of them they would have the capital, skills, tools, drive, ambition, passion etc in order to get off their collective backsides and carve out a living.
particularly now as you can register as unemployed and then open a sole trader enterprise and get an EU grant for 2000 euros to spunk on vans, more tools etc

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Jul 27, 10, 20:10 #18

I love it how they're building everywhere in Poland the country sure is changing, Warsaw is becoming a nice looking city. Motorways, stadiums, skyscrapers, alot is changing. I remember when i still lived in Poland just after communism fell, old, gray, ugly buildings, very bad roads, pollution. Even the city i lived in Stalowa Wola which is a boom town (huge sleet mill), it was to Poland what Pittsburgh is to Pennsylvania, has changed alot about half the city looks different.

A JThreads: 19 Posts: 4,639 Joined: May 21, 10 ♂	Jul 27, 10, 20:15 #19
Okay, so with all this building going on, what would you say is the average rent for a flat or apartment in the bigger cities of Poland? (Warszawa.) Is the average rent going up or down? :)

milkyThreads: 10 Posts: 1,229 Joined: Oct 26, 09 ♀	Jul 27, 10, 23:41 #20
aligator_s: 2000 euros to spunk on vans, more tools etc need a lot more than this PennBoy: Motorways, stadiums, skyscrapers, alot is changing. What about property-bubble,High rent, growing unemployment, mass immigration?

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Jul 27, 10, 23:51 #21

milky:

growing unemployment

Just because you can't get a job doesn't mean that everyone in Poland can't get a job. In fact, you might want to take a look at this -

http://thenews.pl/business/?id=136230

June saw another drop in the unemployment rate in Poland by 0.3 percent.

Sorry, but it looks like you need to find another excuse for Kasia ;)

aligator_s:

particularly now as you can register as unemployed and then open a sole trader enterprise and get an EU grant for 2000 euros to spunk on vans, more tools etc

Getting those funds is nearly impossible if you aren't from a priority group. Anyone male between the age of 25 to 50 has nearly no chance, for instance. Even in Poznan, a rich city - the funds are massively oversubscribed.

milky:

mass immigration?

What mass immigration? The only thing Poland has to fear is the way that some people sit at home and leech off their wives' contribution to ZUS, thus giving them health care.

Varsovian:

However, what is slightly worrying is that the govt signed immigration deals with the Indian and Chinese govts allowing up to 100k people of each nationality entry into Poland. No-one kicked up a fuss at all.

That's because it's not true. Would this be like your claim that Komorowski isn't actually Komorowski?

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Jul 28, 10, 00:08 #22

David_18:

Maybe the poles should learn from the brittish?

Brittish super economy!!!

Exports $351.3 billion (2009 est.)

Imports $473.6 billion (2009 est.)

Gross external debt $9.088 trillion (30 June 2009) Second largest debt in the world.

Public finances

Revenues $819.9 billion (2009 est.)
Expenses $1.132 trillion (2009 est.)

This ecenomy is going down pretty soon...

And here is the problem:

aligator_s:

where welfare covers most of your outgoings.
Polish friends of mine were given council housing in Glasgow (admittedly in the Govan) after being in Scotland for only three months.

The solution is obvious.

aligator_sThreads: 1 Posts: 136 Joined: Jan 7, 08 ♂	Jul 28, 10, 10:06 #23
delphiandomine: Getting those funds is nearly impossible you are welcome to your own opinion of course however I know lots of people who are getting on the EU gravy train 2000 euro is about the going rate for setting up as a sole trade they are not from priority groups either Poznan has the highest GDP per capita per head after Warsaw so hardly a deprived area

PennBoyThreads: 157 Posts: 3,443 Joined: Dec 7, 08 ♂	Jul 28, 10, 16:09 #24
delphiandomine: Just because you can't get a job doesn't mean that everyone in Poland can't get a job. In fact, you might want to take a look at this - Well said, unemployment is dropping, those who can't get a job are full of themselves and the education they gained and simply will not accept a job not in their field for less money, or one that requires physical labor.

THE HITMANThreads: 1 Posts: 416 Joined: Jun 15, 10 ♂	Jul 28, 10, 18:05 #25
How did this topic change to employment statistics ? What about the building boom ? Oh, there obviously is no boom. Boom boom !! Any more good jokes ?

David_18Threads: 111 Posts: 1,212 Joined: Jan 4, 07 ♂	Jul 29, 10, 03:25 #26
THE HITMAN: What about the building boom ? Read the article...

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