Poland's apartment prices continue to fall

No way. The prices in Poznan (except some very exclusive developments - so exclusive that no-one wants to live there) are between 4000-6000PLN per square meter.

a few of them in wroclaw.

You are mixing the so called developers that targeted high end and got their market research wrong. Truly exclusive developments in PL will always sell because they are sold to family ,friends.biz contacts and investors. They never reach the open markets. I could give you two examples of this type of building in Warsaw that has been sold in the last 12 months, the company decided who would live there, not the market.


Krakow has the strongest tourist market in the whole of PL, so why give the rights to a market that does not need the extra tourism traffic. Moreover, because of its geographical location and the ease of traveling to Lviv, football fans who follow the teams that play the knock out stages in Lviv, will base themselves in Krakow.

It makes complete sense, Gdansk, Poznan, Wroclaw need to be given a leg up on the tourist map. Warsaw is of course the capital. Krakow will always be the number one location in PL for tourists, 2012 Euro or not.

I said it depends where and never mentioned the type of property. The various reports I've seen about prices in cities indicated a higher price than that.

In Krakow, looking in estate agents windows its about 7.5K per M2 around here. In the old town it more like 9.5K. Which is less than before certainly.

thenews.pl/business/artykul152278_germans-and-dutch-snap-up-polish-property.html

looks like everybody except Poles are purchasing property.

Oh dear Mark, I see that your reading skills are as tragic as ever: that article has nothing at all in it about Poles purchasing or failing to purchase property.

I can see that prices have fallen, but the price change is very slow to to see from the seller to the buyer. The prices still seem very high. I mean, who can afford some of these places?

Janek

I,m sure Poland is no millionaires paradise, so .......
People with funny money ?
or, they simply don,t sell. Anyone can put a valuation on their property but finding a buyer is the drawback.
Ultimately your property is only worth what someone is willing to pay for it. A lot of the valuations in Poland are over inflated ( looking for a sucker ). This is one of the reasons holding back foreign investment.

There are some very wealthy people in Poland.

More than some. So what difference does that make. Are they playing "monopoly" ?

wbj.pl/article-54776-polish-house-prices-fall.html


wbj.pl/article-54807-apartments-in-poland-cheaper-than-in-2010.html?typ=pam

This proves my origional point, that the places with the highest emigration will be the slowest to go down in price because the real-estate bubble is driven by poles working in the West.

So you are saying Warsaw has the highest emigration to the west?
That's far from the truth.

SeanBM - Milky, I would have thought the emigration was from rural Poland which has the highest areas of unemployment. Guys I live in Warsaw and the amount of immigrants/expats arriving here is very much on the rise and noticeable, especially in the last twelve months.

????????????
Place like Lublin and Puławe have seen little or no price reductions, due to the mass emigration in these areas.

So what happened to the 60% price crash then?. You can't have it both ways Mark.

Pulawy, there are places around there, that have not recovered in price after the floods.

Mark, you call me a "Thatcherite" as if I should be ashamed of that. I know the following artical is meant to apply to the UK, but, I also believe this is what should be happening in Poland.

"It is more important that the young should have the chance to buy an affordable home than that their parents should be able to call themselves nominal house-price millionaires.

Housing is a difficult political issue that is not being handled well by the Coalition. If they were Thatcherites they would take the obvious step and release more sites to bring down the price of development land and, ultimately, of houses.

The present situation has become intolerable. The best the Government could do now is set a target of 260,000 houses a year to be built and sold - and at an affordable price and at a profit to the developer".

Read more:
dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-1394244/UK-housing-market-Why-Britain-launch-land-war.html#ixzz1OQhv2S2Y

“There are two main reasons behind this decline in average prices – lower apartment rates and a different structure of the market,” Jerzy Ptaszyński, an analyst from AMRON, told Rzeczpospolita.

According to developers that I know, who build projects throughout Poland, they are focusing on affordable housing 4-6000 PLN per m2 and 40-60 m2 per apartment. In May 2011, their company sold more apartments than any other month in the last two years. If I remember correctly - Avalaon, made this same call, well over a year ago on this forum.

Its not clear what he's saying. Krakow prices fell more than Warsaw


At that rate of descent it will take another five years.

True, true. Also, as the rail infrastructure improves, people can buy cheaper places in small towns in the outlying areas.

True a journey that takes 40 mins by train today to central Warsaw, will take 15/20 in the future. 2 million PLN in Mokotow,Zoliborz or Saska kepa, will get you very little these days, 200 m2 build with a 300m2 garden, in need of refurb, so why not buy on the outskirts with good communications.

won't the good communications push the house price up

just asking.

Wroclaw

In my opinion, there is still value, buying property in areas with good communications of the outskirts of Warsaw, Gdansk,Krakow,Wroclaw and Poznan. You are going to get much more for your 500-1,000,000 PLN than buying something in better districts of town.

i can go along with this for a while.

but i see a future of private estates springing up on the outskirts. these will include homes in the hands of doctors, lawyers etc.

i can think of one such (gated) estate in the wroclaw area.

apartment prices: the google building here in wroclaw is an example of overpriced apartments, still on sale after being on the market for a couple of years. the price won't drop. if it does it will be a desperate measure by the developer just to get things moving. (my opinion)

this brings up another problem that may affect prices. some developers build in the strangest of places.

Here in Warsaw, there are well in excess of 25 gated communities . Poles have always had an issue with security, look at any house built in the 70's, its like they are living in the Bronx with the security bars on the windows. If you are looking for a good area, look at a place that was once the pre-war summer retreat of the wealthy in Wroclaw, these things don't change. Prestige will always be prestige. Here in Warsaw we have Konstanscin, Milanowek/Podkowa, Zalesie G/D and Hornewek/Stare Mlociny.

Sorry, i meant (gated) housing estates. 50+ houses, nice gardens.

is this what u meant ? if it is then house prices will never go down.

i would think that the only way to get a cheap apartment would be to buy something in an old style block. but then pay on top of that to bring it up to date. so, in the end. property prices are not going down

You are only saying that to wind (Milky) Mark up.

No, It will not. The prices In the cities will continue to fall until they reflect the wages of the Polish workers in Poland and its cities. The prices will not go up anywhere in Poland, they will just go down slower in Poor parts(lublin) were emigration to the west is very high. The wages in parts of the east are so low that people struggle to put petrol in their cars,never mind buying a property that has gone from 15000 euro to 50000 euro between 2004 and 2007.

"Good communication" will push nothing up,(although it will reduce road accidents and help deal with the imaginary third lane) as the West is in recession, and the "West" is what drove the prices up in the first place(as every jackass knows except for the developers on here who are "pretending" otherwise) as Poles went there in their millions and Westerners invested blindly in Polish , Hungarian property etc. For those looking for links to verify what I have said, "here you are", have a look, I have them written on my arse.

It makes a change from the so called facts that come out of the same place.

Everyone on here is a liar except you Mark.