Polish system for flats/apartments. Owner have to pay a rent?

LorencThreads: 6 Posts: 30 Joined: May 13, 08 ♂	Sep 13, 10, 14:11 #1
Hello, I've been told that in Poland, if you live in a block of flats, you have to pay a rent even if you are the owner of the flat, and that owners and non-owners end up paying each month the same (for this "rent", bills, block expenses). Is it true? If so, what's the rationale behind it? Thanks!

alexw68	Sep 13, 10, 14:25 #2
Think of what the owner pays as 'ground rent' (business letting has this term in the UK, even if residential doesn't). It supposedly covers some rates and upkeep of the building. In all too many cases, though, it finances rampant inefficiency and bureaucracy on the part of the housing association/managing company. Ale to samo życie.

♂

Sep 13, 10, 14:31 #3

In blocks of flats you normally need to pay "admin" fees, normally this includes some kind of utility as well, for example where i live, the admin fee includes water, waste and weekly communal cleaning. Where my in-laws live it includes heating, waste and communal areas are cleaned daily.

My landlord doesn't separate the costs and the "admin fee" is included in the rent i pay him one amount.... job done.

If you own your flat then you still need to pay administration fees for the above reasons.

Someone has to keep the areas clean and ultimately the building will need some kind of maintenance throughout its life.. the money has to come from somewhere! with big blocks they publish the income, whats being done, how much its going to cost etc on a yearly basis.

♂ [Suspended]

Sep 13, 10, 15:50 #4

Lorenc:

I've been told that in Poland, if you live in a block of flats, you have to pay a rent even if you are the owner of the flat, and that owners and non-owners end up paying each month the same (for this "rent", bills, block expenses).
Is it true? If so, what's the rationale behind it?

Yes it is true. Somehow the cold water I use plus upkeep of the building, heating, removal of rubbish and cleaning communal areas can not be done for a single grosze less than the 385 zloty extracted from my wallet on a monthly basis.

♂

Sep 13, 10, 16:28 #5

Let me try to get this right. This how I see things. The following things may need to be paid:

1) Utility bills (water, gas, electricity, telephone...)

2) Ordinary maintenance of the block (cleaning of common areas, repairs, administration costs,...)

3) In the UK most flats are leaseholds. This (roughly!) means that, a), the landlord has "ownership" over the flat only for a limited, but possibly very long, period of time (e.g., 100 years) and, b), that he or she has to pay a "ground rent" to the "real" owner (the freeholder).

4) In the UK most people who are not students need to pay a tax to the town council the live in (Council Tax).

5) If you don't own the flat you live in you pay a rent to the landlord. The rent may automatically include some of the costs of points 1-4.

Which of these points apply to Polish flats? Is there something alike the ground rent of point 3?
Thanks!

TeffleThreads: 28 Posts: 2,105 Joined: Aug 26, 10 ♂	Edited by: Teffle Sep 13, 10, 16:53 #6
Ah well this explains something anyway. I was pleasantly surprised to see that some residential areas that looked "a bit rough" to me were all very clean, neat and tidy. Maybe as much to do with the fact that the cleanliness is paid for as mere civic pride then!

inkrakow

Sep 13, 10, 17:01 #7

Lorenc:

Which of these points apply to Polish flats?

1, 2.

There's no council tax as you understand it in the UK as the local councils get a good chunk of their funds from income tax. Most property is share of freehold so if you're an owner, you pay an admin fee to the management company for the shared costs (usually includes a contribution to a sinking fund) and to pay them for keeping the accounts (a legal requirement). The admin fee also usually includes building insurance and a small annual property tax.

♂

Sep 13, 10, 18:50 #8

1, 2.

Thank you, inkrakow. But surely you should also pay 5 , the "pure" rent, woudn't you?

I am perplexed because I was told that in "council" estates if you don't own the flat you pay so many złoty per month, and that, were you to purchase it, you would still have to pay that many złoty per month. My guess is that the bulk of what one's pays each month is made up mainly by 1-2, so that paying or not 5 to the council doesn't make much difference overall.

Does this make sense? Or am I missing something?

♂

Edited by: warszawski Sep 13, 10, 19:13 #9

Lorenc:

Does this make sense? Or am I missing something?

As the owner of a flat in Poland, you will pay a monthly admin fee this can range from 6PLN to 15PLN per month per 1 sq mtr. The admin fee normally includes the following:

1. Administration of the building.
2. Cleaning of communal areas.
3. Removal of rubbish.
4. Upkeep of building.
5. Enclosed parking if available.
6. Security.

It does NOT include amenities,

1. Electricity
2. Gas
3. Heating
4. TV,internet and telephone.
5. Water

If you are the owner you are obliged to pay the above.

If you are renting, some owners will include the admin costs in the rent, others will charge you as an extra, there is no norm it is up to the owner.If you are renting all should be in your contract.

inkrakow

Sep 14, 10, 00:28 #10

Lorenc:

I am perplexed because I was told that in "council" estates if you don't own the flat you pay so many złoty per month, and that, were you to purchase it, you would still have to pay that many złoty per month. My guess is that the bulk of what one's pays each month is made up mainly by 1-2, so that paying or not 5 to the council doesn't make much difference overall.

I think you probably haven't been told the whole story. 1+2 would end up being the same, regardless of whether you or the council owns the property. It's conceivable that 5 isn't much, but it's not nothing.

milkyThreads: 10 Posts: 1,229 Joined: Oct 26, 09 ♀	Feb 16, 12, 14:11 #11
In relation to other countries,what is the Admin fee,excluding 1. Electricity 2. Gas 3. Heating 4. TV,internet and telephone. 5. Water What is it in France, Germany,England etc Its about 300 euro a year in Ireland. Whats the average in Poland?

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