How do I rent a flat in Poland?

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May 31, 11, 11:56 #1

Assuming I find a letting agent or rental agent that I can at all communicate with :o) how do I rent an apartment in Poland? I'm thinking of a modest one bedroom flat in or near Wroclaw or possibly Krakow. Any tips or warnings of pitfalls would be welcome.

Also not sure on the tenancy length procedures etc. In the UK they often stipulate 12 months but on negotiation will usually come down to 6 or 7 or even 3 months if that's what's needed. Do they demand n prepaid month(s) or ask for one month down and one month as deposit?

I also believe most categories of Brit staying in Poland beyond 90 consecutive days need a visa, so in the unlikely event I'm in Poland beyond 90 days, can anyone please show me which visa form I need to complete - I've been to the Polish govt sites and cannot see the right visa form for a Briton asking to reside 90 days plus.

Thanks.

EdWilczynski	May 31, 11, 12:07 #2
BritinPoland: I also believe most categories of Brit staying in Poland beyond 90 consecutive days need a visa If you are British passport holder you do NOT need a visa. Of course if you plan to work in Poland thats a different matter.....Then you need to register etc.

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May 31, 11, 13:02 #3

EdWilczynski:

If you are British passport holder you do NOT need a visa.

Thanks for replying. Yes, I had thought I didn't need a visa too - but apparently any stay over 90 days regardless of working or not working -needs a visa. Please see this link:-

http://www.msz.gov.pl/Countries,whose,citizens,are,not,required,to,hav e,a,visa,when,entering,Poland,2347.html

Countries whose citizens are not required to have a visa when entering Poland

Polish VISA REQUIREMENTS for holders of ordinary passports

Citizens of the following countries are not required to be in possession of a visa when entering Poland for less than 90 days:
.../
United Kingdom
.../•Their visit is of not more than three months’ duration

and http://www.paiz.gov.pl/polish_law/residence_in_poland

1. EU and EEA citizens

Citizens of European Union (EU) member states and members of their families, and also citizens of states from the European Economic Area - Norway, Iceland, Liechtenstein and Switzerland (EEA) and members of their families, may enter and stay in the territory of the Republic of Poland for a period not exceeding a total of 90 days without the necessity of holding a visa.Crossing the Republic of Poland border by a citizen of the EU requires that a valid travel document be held or another document confirming the identity and citizenship. A family member not being an EU citizen may enter the territory of the Republic of Poland on the basis of a valid travel document and a visa, if this is required.

.../

and note the 90 days asterisk here http://www.theschengenoffice.com/poland_need_visa.html

BUT if the law has changed, perhaps someone can tell me where I can find it, I have checked here etc
http://www.londynkg.polemb.net/index.php?document=45

JonnyMThreads: 16 Posts: 4,487 Joined: Mar 9, 11 ♂	May 31, 11, 13:26 #4
BritinPoland: but apparently any stay over 90 days regardless of working or not working -needs a visa. Please see this link:- This is wrong. British citizens do not need a visa to be in Poland and vice versa.

BritinPolandThreads: 8 Posts: 131 Joined: Oct 30, 10 ♂	May 31, 11, 13:37 #5
JonnyM, well...why do the official websites say otherwise then? Have a look at them, please let me know where I'm misunderstanding the official websites. Thanks.

JonnyMThreads: 16 Posts: 4,487 Joined: Mar 9, 11 ♂	Edited by: JonnyM May 31, 11, 13:45 #6
BritinPoland: why do the official websites say otherwise then? Because they are wrong. If you think otherwise, just phone the Polish consulate. Stop trolling.

BritinPolandThreads: 8 Posts: 131 Joined: Oct 30, 10 ♂	May 31, 11, 13:48 #7
JonnyM: Because they are wrong. Stop trolling. How can official websites be wrong? As far as I know, I have supplied you with official websites. And no need to get snappy and unpleasant is there, Mr JonnyM, pretty ridiculous atttitude to take with me for pointing out official websites to you isn't it.

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May 31, 11, 13:53 #8

BritinPoland:

How can official websites be wrong? As far as I know, I have supplied you with official websites.

It's clear you haven't been in Poland very long. 'Official' websites don't count for anything.

BritinPoland:

And no need to get snappy and unpleasant is there,

And no need to post rubbish about UK citizens needing visas, Mr Brit in Poland in body but not in mind.

BritinPoland:

pretty ridiculous atttitude to take with me for pointing out official websites to you isn't it.

Even more ridiculous to keep posting out-of date information when you've been told by three long-term residents that it's wrong. Just phone the consulate instead - their number's in the book.

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May 31, 11, 13:56 #9

I think if you are more than 90 days in poland, you are suppose to register that you are here. This is very different from needing a Visa, and as part of the EU you are able to live and work here without a visa. I lived and worked here for year before actually applying for the residency card. dont worry if you are here for more than 90 days, they wont be knocking on your door!!!

In relation to renting an apartment, normally a months deposit and the first month paid is required when you sign the tanancy agreement. You can get tenancy agreement with open ended finish dates. This will realy depend on the landlord you are dealing with. Normally, there will be a stipulation of both parties having to give a months notice of termination of agreement. Hope this helps.

BritinPolandThreads: 8 Posts: 131 Joined: Oct 30, 10 ♂	May 31, 11, 14:04 #10
JonnyM, you're making about as much sense as a chocolate teapot. I wasn't rude to you - do not be rude to me or if you can't help being rude then just don't post on any of my threads, please.

JonnyMThreads: 16 Posts: 4,487 Joined: Mar 9, 11 ♂	May 31, 11, 14:07 #11
BritinPoland: a chocolate teapot Weird. You've had three or four answers, all good. But don't keep repeating stuff from websites that are never updated. Trust me - if you have a UK passport, you don't need a visa to live in Poland.

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Edited by: BritinPoland May 31, 11, 14:10 #12

vndunne:

Quote

I think if you are more than 90 days in poland, you are suppose to register that you are here. This is very different from needing a Visa, and as part of the EU you are able to live and work here without a visa. I lived and worked here for year before actually applying for the residency card. dont worry if you are here for more than 90 days, they wont be knocking on your door!!!

In relation to renting an apartment, normally a months deposit and the first month paid is required when you sign the tanancy agreement. You can get tenancy agreement with open ended finish dates. This will realy depend on the landlord you are dealing with. Normally, there will be a stipulation of both parties having to give a months notice of termination of agreement. Hope this helps.

Many thanks for that. The other thing I was wondering is whether, and I hesitate to even post this question in case I put ideas into lettings agents' heads :o) is whether they charge a tenant fees here when he/she applies for a tenancy? In the UK they do - anything from £50 to £500, depending on how much the agent thinks they can get away with. They only started that nonsense in the UK about 12 years ago, and now they charge for everything from drawing the agreement up, credit/reference checks, fee collection, checking in, checking out, the whole lot. And if a tenant fails references, the lettings agent keeps the fee anyway. I have never failed a reference, but if I did I would want my fee back - although I could whistle for it as once they have your fee money they have your fee money.

JonnyMThreads: 16 Posts: 4,487 Joined: Mar 9, 11 ♂	May 31, 11, 14:13 #13
BritinPoland: is whether they charge a tenant fees here when he/she applies for a tenancy? Some do - usually half the first month's rent payable when you sign the contract. If any want a finder's fee just for looking, avoid them. There are usually no credit checks. Try gumtree - you can filter out agents' ads and judt see ads from the person renting.

BritinPolandThreads: 8 Posts: 131 Joined: Oct 30, 10 ♂	May 31, 11, 14:15 #14
JonnyM: Some do - usually half the first month's rent payable when you sign the contract. If any want a finder's fee just for looking, avoid them. There are usually no credit checks. Try gumtree - you can filter out agents' ads and judt see ads from the person renting. Thank you for the answer and pointers, JonnyM.

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Edited by: JonnyM May 31, 11, 14:19 #15

BritinPoland:

the answer and pointers

No worries - excuse my earlier tetchiness - I've had years of dealing with the Polish state and know not to trust any 'official' information. You can get two civil servants sitting at adjacent desks, doing identical jobs and saying three entirely different things! The rules and regulations usually change far more slowly than the reality.

As for renting, Poles avoid using agents wherever possible. But be careful - some adverts that pretend to be private ones turn out to be agents. Much better to deal direct here.

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May 31, 11, 14:32 #16

JonnyM:

No worries - excuse my earlier tetchines - I've had years of dealing with the Polish state and know not to trust any 'official' information. You can get two civil servants sitting at adjacent desks, doing identical jobs and saying three entirely different things!

As for renting, Poles avoid using agents wherever possible. But be careful - some adverts that pretend to be private ones turn out to be agents. Much better to deal direct here.

I see, so at the risk of sounding very naive why are those civil servants not up to speed on current laws and why does that go so far, as you suggest, as wrong info being on their govt's website? I had thought if there were regulations and they are published on a website with a Polish government URL that I could depend on them? But apparently not?!? Visa rules have changed and are out of date but no one's updated the website? Is that what's happened? I am just wondering why that is? I don't want to be tedious or annoying, I'm just puzzled.

Regarding renting, thank you for the tip re dealing direct. As you probably know, in the UK it's not unheard of for people to get hold of empty flat keys and pretend to be landlords and then steal your deposit, happened to 2 people I've heard of, one of them I know personally. Never saw their money again. Well-known newspapers and websites there have this as a problem from time to time.

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May 31, 11, 14:37 #17

BritinPoland:

e why are those civil servants not up to speed on current laws and why does that go so far, as you suggest, as wrong info being on their govt's website?

It's simply not a priority for them. Websites, government or not, are not official channels of information here.

BritinPoland:

I had thought if there were regulations and they are published on a website with a Polish government URL that I could depend on them? But apparently not?!? Visa rules have changed and are out of date but no one's updated the website? Is that what's happened?

That's exactly what's happened. Normal here in PL.

BritinPoland:

As you probably know, in the UK it's not unheard of for people to get hold of empty flat keys and pretend to be landlords and then steal your deposit, happened to 2 people I've heard of, one of them I know personally. Never saw their money again.

Here people are far less trusting - they often want to see all the documents etc. The best way to find somewhere to rent is either through Gumtree or ideally by asking around. Best to avoid professional renters with several flats to let and stick to people who are renting just the one.

BritinPolandThreads: 8 Posts: 131 Joined: Oct 30, 10 ♂	May 31, 11, 14:52 #18
JonnyM, thank you for taking the time to post all that info, much obliged to you, and others who replied on this thread.

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May 31, 11, 16:54 #19

BritinPoland:

I see, so at the risk of sounding very naive why are those civil servants not up to speed on current laws and why does that go so far, as you suggest, as wrong info being on their govt's website? I had thought if there were regulations and they are published on a website with a Polish government URL that I could depend on them? But apparently not?!? Visa rules have changed and are out of date but no one's updated the website? Is that what's happened? I am just wondering why that is? I don't want to be tedious or annoying, I'm just puzzled.

Fully appreciate your frustration on this but this is somewhat a reality here. I think part of the problem is that up to recently, Poland has not had to deal with that many people coming to poland but this is changing. Unfortunately, the process is not. It can also be different from city to city. As i said, I appreciate your frustration but if you are coming here to live, best to count to 10 and accept it. I know it is a defeatest attitude but otherwise you will go mad with frustration.

JonnyM:

No worries - excuse my earlier tetchiness - I've had years of dealing with the Polish state and know not to trust any 'official' information. You can get two civil servants sitting at adjacent desks, doing identical jobs and saying three entirely different things! The rules and regulations usually change far more slowly than the reality.

Sad but true!!!

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May 31, 11, 18:00 #20

JonnyM:

The rules and regulations usually change far more slowly than the reality.

vndunne:

Sad but true!!!

When as in England, everyone in the numerous UK govt places I know of is terrified of being seen to deviate from any written rules and regulations and even if those rules change they want a memo in writing before daring to advise a member of the public anything contrary to what would be on a website or pamphlet.

Well, this has been something very interesting for me to learn - I knew there were cultural differences but didn't realise this dimension to things.

I feel less worried now if I am still here beyond 90 days, it's put my mind at rest that I won't have a load of hassle. Thank you all (and those who PM'ed me to advise and help also)

warszawskiThreads: 60 Posts: 2,389 Joined: May 21, 10 ♂	May 31, 11, 19:41 #21
vndunne: I think if you are more than 90 days in poland, you are suppose to register that you are here. vndunne, 14 days I believe, register for the first 90 days, and then apply.

vndunneThreads: 72 Posts: 340 Joined: Jan 12, 07 ♂	May 31, 11, 21:48 #22
warszawski: vndunne, 14 days I believe, register for the first 90 days, and then apply. HHmmm..something about that rings a bell, alright. It has been so long since i looked into it i cant remember but that does sound familiar. That being said, EU citizens are ok. I was here a few years before i got around to registering.

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Edited by: BritinPoland Jun 1, 11, 10:26 #23

One more question:
Do landlords negotiate on price here in Poland? In my experience in the UK they almost always do - up to 5% off usually instantly or without too much stress, and 6% to 12% off in the past took over a week or so of negotiations. In one case I reduced my rent just under 15% off for a year. That's because over there, rather than a flat sitting empty earning no rent, some landlords realise it's better to get less and a tenant sooner. However, some stick to their prices even if it means a void of months, one refused me and had his empty for (and I am not joking) 9 months (outskirts of London, Hertfordshire border).

HarryThreads: 62 Posts: 8,508 Joined: May 2, 07 ♂ [Suspended]	Jun 1, 11, 11:21 #24
BritinPoland: Do landlords negotiate on price here in Poland? Generally not. You could ask for maybe 100zl a month off but here people seem to have a very fixed idea of what their place is worth and they won't take anything less (even if it means their place standing empty).

BritinPolandThreads: 8 Posts: 131 Joined: Oct 30, 10 ♂	Jun 1, 11, 14:13 #25
Thanks Harry, but 100zl in your example being approx what percentage of the asked for monthly rent, please?

NataszaMilkovaThreads: 2 Posts: 2 Joined: May 31, 11 ♂	Jun 1, 11, 14:47 #26
When I was rented the flat in Krakow I used website KrakowFlats.com and DiscoverCracow.com because they had a good price. I don't know how that looks now.

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Jun 1, 11, 14:48 #27

Harry:

Generally not. You could ask for maybe 100zl a month off but here people seem to have a very fixed idea of what their place is worth and they won't take anything less (even if it means their place standing empty).

One good side of this is that you can unashamedly ask for less money and simply walk away if they don't match it - they won't waste your time mmming and aahing over it.

Must admit though, I've never understood the Polish mentality of leaving a place empty and having to eat the family dog just for the sake of a bit more cash at the end.

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Edited by: Dominicus Jun 1, 11, 14:51 #28

Finding an appartment for a few months in Wrocław or Kraków isn't hard, as long as you are out by October 1, when the students come back.

A one room apartment will set you back at least 1000 PLN in Wrocław, and a little more in Kraków. Add utilities and your looking at at least 1300 PLN. 1500 total is more likely what you will have to pay.

Estate agents usually take 1 months rent as their fee. I don't know about short-term rentals like this, though. Estate agents are generally for people who have cash to burn, not for ordinary mortals.

Landlords expect 1 month deposit. They usually won't let you haggle.

The best way to find an appartment is on Gumtree Wrocław or Kraków. You'll need the help of a Polish friend to do this, but you'll save a lot of money.

If the price I gave you is out of reach, then considering renting a room in someone else's apartment. I just rented out a room in mine. Expect to pay 600 to 700 total.

Make sure you know where the room is. A room in Złotniki or Psie Pole, for example, may be cheap, but it's time-consuming to get to the city center from there. Check before you agree to anything, and insist on seeing pictures of the apartment.

As for visa, the UK is not in the Schengen zone, and Poland is. The rules covering visas for you to Poland are the same as for France or Germany. Take care of this BEFORE you leave.

Last of all, as others have said, do not rely on information given in official Polish government websites. Poles do not look for information in this way, so the sites are often not properly maintained and may give outdated information.

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Jun 1, 11, 15:03 #29

Dominicus:

Take care of this BEFORE you leave.

So, I do need a visa then? Some are saying I do, most are saying I don't! I am already in Poland btw.

delphiandomine:

Must admit though, I've never understood the Polish mentality of leaving a place empty and having to eat the family dog just for the sake of a bit more cash at the end.

DD, They do the same in England, I assure you! Plenty of landlords, even the very experienced one I used to rent from, get a void of months and months rather than negotiate. I had told him I wasn't staying there any more unless he either cut the rent or refurbished. He refused to cut the rent and refused any meaningful refurbishment. I left. He had it empty for over 6 months and he had to refurbish it before it let. This was near London. I spoke to the tenant who is there now when I collected nearly a year of post (very kindly they kept it for me) and they did not negotiate anything off the much increased rent, a very young and inexperienced couple had taken it. Adding up what the landlord lost by not negotiating with me, they will have to stay there overpaying as they are for many years to make up the void money.

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Jun 1, 11, 15:15 #30

BritinPoland:

So, I do need a visa then? Some are saying I do, most are saying I don't! I am already in Poland btw.

No, you do not need a visa and you can not actually even get a visa either. Don't listen to what Americans say, listen to what British passport holders in Poland say. What you need is a Residency Registration Certificate confirming your stay in Poland (Zaświadczenie o Zarejestrowaniu Pobytu Obywateli Unii Europejskiej w Polsce). However, as far as I know, not having such a certificate is not sufficient grounds to be deported.

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