How to get my property back in Poland? I left 36 years ago.

yurek760	Sep 27, 11, 02:55 #1
I'm looking for a lawyer in (possibly in Szczecin) who will help me to get my property back I left in Szczecin 36 years ago.

beckskiThreads: 19 Posts: 2,148 Joined: May 15, 07 MEMBER ♀	Sep 27, 11, 06:48 #2
who will help me to get my property back I left in Szczecin Are you referring to real estate, personal property or both? A sincere thanks PF, for putting up with me FIVE terrific years, muah!

Grzegorz_Threads: 81 Posts: 6,213 Joined: Nov 16, 06 ♂	Sep 27, 11, 08:20 #3
How did you "leave" it ? Was the government forbidding you to sell it ? If not then I really doubt you can do anything about it.

yurek760	Sep 28, 11, 04:50 #4
That's Real Estate, very big condominium/apartment.

antheadsThreads: 13 Posts: 306 Joined: Jan 21, 11 ♂	Sep 28, 11, 04:51 #5
this is interesting, can you give us the circumstances on how you left it , what the goverment did, who owns it now?

yurek760

Edited by: yurek760 Sep 28, 11, 05:16 #6

I left without passport in 1978. After 3 years my wife fixed me status "lost" in Poland because I was escapee, in Communist Poland that was easy. Thanks to my birth certificate I took with I regain my Polish Citizen Passport with Pesel Number in 2005. During that time my wife in Poland payed off our very big condominium we use to live in. She payed it off with my $$$ I was sending her from US and erased my name from the Deed. It's a 110 sq. m condominium in very big town. She live there now with her "husband".
I am both Polish and American Citizen living in USA.

BBmanThreads: - Posts: 459 Joined: Jan 4, 11 ♂	Sep 28, 11, 05:57 #7
Ouch! Sounds like you need a lawyer.

pawianThreads: 90 Posts: 5,415 Joined: May 30, 08 ♂	Sep 28, 11, 06:19 #8
=BBman]Ouch! Sounds like you need a lawyer. And a calculator too. =yurek760] I left 36 years ago. =yurek760]I left without passport in 1978.

yurek760	Edited by: yurek760 Sep 28, 11, 07:08 #9
yup. I figured...... lol seriously, I don't have any idea how to start it up :(

RichfilthThreads: 8 Posts: 327 Joined: Mar 8, 09 ♂	Sep 28, 11, 07:16 #10
Do you have any proof of the payments you sent to her during that time? You need to collect as much evidence of what you did between 1978 and now, otherwise it's just your story against hers.

yurek760	Edited by: yurek760 Sep 28, 11, 07:22 #11
I have some and I have a witnesses also but isn't it enough that she took me off from people's evidence in Poland. I wanna be back on the Deed

bullfrogThreads: 4 Posts: 390 Joined: Apr 23, 09 ♂	Sep 28, 11, 09:31 #12
It's a 110 sq. m condominium i our very big condominium I thought 110 sq m was more a closet size for Americans.. For communist Poland, i would agree it's big, but not by today's standards

WedleThreads: 24 Posts: 786 Joined: Sep 27, 11 ♂	Sep 28, 11, 09:46 #13
I have some and I have a witnesses also but isn't it enough that she took me off from people's evidence in Poland. I wanna be back on the Deed When did you get divorced and when did she delist you?

rozumiemnicThreads: 4 Posts: 1,023 Joined: Nov 16, 09 ♀	Edited by: rozumiemnic Sep 28, 11, 11:00 #14
well you ran away from her...what did you expect? I bet you left her to pay for everything and sent her about $20 a week while you swanned around pleasing yourself for years. Great husband. Now that things are shyte in USA you want to go running back. I think any judge would laugh you out of court. There's two sides to every story.... Silly man.

♂

Sep 28, 11, 15:37 #15

Are you still married to her? Was the property acquired during the time you were married? If the answer to those two questions is yes, you are most likely still the owner of half the property as it will be common property.

However, the first thing to do is to try to settle this matter with your wife without getting any lawyers involved. Getting lawyers involved won't mean there is any more money for the two of you to share, it will just mean that there is less money for you to share. I'd suggest you ask her to have the property valued by three independent valuers and then ask for half of the average of the values. You can discuss with her payment terms (i.e. all spread over say ten years, half now and half over ten years, all now, etc).

If that doesn't work, you need to contact a lawyer in Szczecin. I can't recommend anybody there personally.

yurek760	Sep 28, 11, 16:07 #16
in 1981

PWEIThreads: 5 Posts: 894 Joined: Jul 28, 11 ♂	Sep 28, 11, 16:09 #17
yurek760 in 1981 In 1981 what?

yurek760	Sep 28, 11, 16:14 #18
Are you still married to her? Was the property acquired during the time you were married? I'm not married to her anymore. The property was acquired during the time I was married.

WedleThreads: 24 Posts: 786 Joined: Sep 27, 11 ♂	Sep 28, 11, 16:24 #19
I'm not married to her anymore Is this the building?

PWEIThreads: 5 Posts: 894 Joined: Jul 28, 11 ♂	Sep 28, 11, 16:54 #20
I'm not married to her anymore. The property was acquired during the time I was married. So try and settle it with her and then speak to a lawyer if she won't settle.

♂

Edited by: Midas Sep 28, 11, 17:11 #21

Amazing what rising property prises in Poland bring out in people. Not talking only about Poles, either.

Anyways, statute of limitations in Poland is 10 years and ownership of real estate passes from the legal owner to the person that uses the property for 20 years, 30 years in case of bad faith ( article 172 par 2, Polish Civil Code ).

That's Polish Civil Law 1.01 and it pretty much means You're screwed.

PWEIThreads: 5 Posts: 894 Joined: Jul 28, 11 ♂	Sep 28, 11, 17:23 #22
Anyways, statute of limitations in Poland is 10 years and ownership of real estate passes from the legal owner to the person that uses the property for 20 years, 30 years in case of bad faith ( article 172 par 2, Polish Civil Code ). Depends on when they got divorced then.

♂

Edited by: Midas Sep 28, 11, 17:52 #23

Not really, if he "left Szczecin 36 years ago" and during that period his wife was in possession of the flat without any breaks she has already obtained ownership regardless whether she ****** him out of it by the book or not --> art. 172 par. 2, Polish Civil Code, as mentioned before.

She could have walked him out of that flat at gunpoint, if he didn't do anything about it for 30 years passed its all fine and dandy according to Polish law.

She payed it off with my $$$ I was sending her from US

Oh, yeah, rolling on the floor laughing here.

♂

Sep 28, 11, 18:02 #24

She could have walked him out of that flat at gunpoint, if he didn't do anything about it for 30 years passed its all fine and dandy according to Polish law.

But by your reasoning, a couple could buy twenty rental flats and then when they divorce 25 years later one party assert that the other had no claim to the properties as no use had been made by that person of those properties.

It also depends on when she acquired the flat and when they divorced (from what I'm seeing, they didn't own the flat when he left but she acquired it at a later date).

♂

Sep 28, 11, 19:27 #25

Not really, if he "left Szczecin 36 years ago" and during that period his wife was in possession of the flat without any breaks she has already obtained ownership regardless whether she ****** him out of it by the book or not --> art. 172 par. 2, Polish Civil Code, as mentioned before.

I am with Midas on this fact.

Depends on when they got divorced then.

As far as I understand she reported him as a missing person at some stage, she informed the authorities, no knowledge of his whereabouts, if this happened after they divorced, it would prove in fact she knew of his whereabouts and had recently been in contact with him.

The property was acquired during the time I was married.

I really think yurek is drinking in the last chance saloon on this one.

♂

Edited by: Midas Sep 28, 11, 19:27 #26

But by your reasoning, a couple could buy twenty rental flats and then when they divorce 25 years later one party assert that the other had no claim to the properties as no use had been made by that person of those properties.

It also depends on when she acquired the flat and when they divorced (from what I'm seeing, they didn't own the flat when he left but she acquired it at a later date).

My reasoning is perfectly ok, thank you.

If I need to spell it out: If he was removed from the deed by way of illegal or underhanded means and 30 years passed from the date of said removal art. 172 par. 2 of the Polish Civil Code protects the sole right of "ownership" of his wife. She can claim that in any court after he files whatever his Polish lawyer draws up for him.

It is a little something they refer to as "zasiedzenie" in Poland, it applies to real estate and based on the very same article a hobo who builds a shack on someone's plot and manages to live there unnoticed and uninterrupted for 30 years could try to claim ownership.

He could theoretically claim there were interruptions of her stay in the flat and that if anything might be able to save him if 30 years indeed passed from the date I mentioned. Also he could theoretically claim that she obtained his removal by way of crime which would, if I correctly understand, make all the fruits of such behaviour unclaimable in civil court ( my lawyer knows this stuff better, sorry ) but the Polish criminal statute of limitations covers her on this end.

I would also like to point out that I am rather well-versed in the "zasiedzenie" related issues, as some of my Jewish friends who tried to reclaim property were blocked exactly by the article and paragraph I just quoted. So unless someone is going to make a properly backed up legal argument please don't tell me I don't know jack in this particular matter.

♂

Sep 28, 11, 19:42 #27

I would also like to point out that I am rather well-versed in the "zasiedzenie" related issues, as some of my Jewish friends who tried to reclaim property were blocked exactly by the article and paragraph I just quoted. So unless someone is going to make a properly backed up legal argument please don't tell me I don't know jack in this particular matter.

I'm not saying that you know nothing, I'm saying that if she acquired ownership of the property less than 20 years ago (i.e. neither of their names were on the deeds before then) and they were still married when she did, he might have a claim.

But you might also want to note that my advice to him was to try to settle it with her and then to speak to a lawyer.

pawianThreads: 90 Posts: 5,415 Joined: May 30, 08 ♂	Sep 28, 11, 21:52 #28
=rozumiemnic]sent her about $20 a week That would make about 1000$ per year. Incredible amount of money in communist Poland.

yurek760

Edited by: yurek760 Sep 28, 11, 22:44 #29

actually there was $150/month (at that time $150x zl120=zl 18000/month!) for 5 years which was total $ 108000! We're talking about Big Bucks!!!!
The 1 sq.m of that apartment was zl 1850 (about $15)/1sq.m at the time we bought it (1980). She put down payment and than payed of with couple of lump sums from money I was sending her. That was done before divorcing her by me in USA. She never had divorced me in Poland. I don't even know if she has any divorce.
I didn't leave because a criminal stuff etc, I was perfectly clean. My wife and I we arranged together that I'll run away and she will come along after 2, 3 years, instead she'd got pregnant and had a daughter with some Bulgarian guy - that's why I divorced her. Before that she'd got me status of missing person in Poland.

yurek760	Sep 28, 11, 22:52 #30
That would make about 1000$ per year. Incredible amount of money in communist Poland. Yes it was: 1 US Dollar was zl 120 on black market !!!!!!!!!!!!

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