Warsaw City in 2020

JonnyMThreads: 16 Posts: 4,487 Joined: Mar 9, 11 ♂	May 3, 11, 00:15 #31
PennBoy: The Palace will be surrounded by skyscrapers towering over it That was proposed by some fool a few years ago, but won't happen for a whole raft of reasons to do with green space and geology.

warszawskiThreads: 60 Posts: 2,389 Joined: May 21, 10 ♂	May 3, 11, 00:46 #32
JonnyM: Those of us who live on the proposed route would like that JohnnyM, ul Belwerderska ?

♂

May 3, 11, 00:56 #33

Harry:

If Zlota is finished by May 2012, I'll give you 10,000zl.

I don't see it happening, the building has been plagued by problems, I was quoted 16,000 PLN per m2 finished ( not stan surowy) for Zlota 44, there is always a clause in the contract, that if for unforeseen problems the price may increase. I wonder what the price has increased to, now for the off plan buyers.

Here is a quote from the Zlota 44 blog

- The construction of the building at Złota 44 is our absolute priority. The maintenance of the current optimum speed of works will make Złota 44 building to be seen literally growing in the eyes of Warsaw citizens. We endeavour to complete the construction of the structure and external elevations of the building by the Euro 2012 Tournament – said Alicja Kościesza, the Sales and Marketing Director of Orco Poland.

♂

Edited by: JonnyM May 3, 11, 01:11 #34

As far as I know, the developer has run out of money and at least a year ago a well-known firm of architects were commissioned to look into alternative uses for the building as it stands - not building it to full height. This is problematic due to the size of the central service core, the low ceiling height and the distance of some parts of the building from the nearest window.

warszawski:

JohnnyM, ul Belwerderska ?

Near the back of Powazki. Belwederska from 2004 until Oct 2009.

Monia

May 3, 11, 01:12 #35

The spire tower is under construction already

[imgs=http://www.placdefilad.pl/]Spire Tower [/imgs]

[imgs=http://bryla.gazetadom.pl/bryla/1,85302,8712952,6__Warszawa__Kal eidoscope_Tower__170_metrow_,,ga,,6.html]Kaleidoscope [/imgs]

soon to be under construction

[imgs=http://bryla.gazetadom.pl/bryla/1,85302,8712952,7__Warszawa__Twa rda_Tower__160_metrow_,,ga,,7.html]Twarda [/imgs]

ground works has already started

JonnyMThreads: 16 Posts: 4,487 Joined: Mar 9, 11 ♂	Edited by: JonnyM May 3, 11, 01:16 #36
Monia: ground works has already started Let's hope there's a vacant lot for it, unlike all the buildings you pretend are going to replace the beautifully reconstructed listed buildings.

warszawskiThreads: 60 Posts: 2,389 Joined: May 21, 10 ♂	May 3, 11, 01:17 #37
JonnyM: Belwederska from 2004 until Oct 2009. ok I understand.

WroclawThreads: 77 Posts: 7,404 Joined: Apr 1, 06 ♂ [Moderator]	May 3, 11, 01:32 #38
JonnyM: unlike all the buildings you pretend are going to replace the beautifully reconstructed listed buildings. they could move the listed buildings or build over them. the sony centre in berlin with the emperor's hall can be used as an example.

♂

Edited by: JonnyM May 3, 11, 02:10 #39

Wroclaw:

they could move the listed buildings or build over them. the sony centre in berlin with the emperor's hall can be used as an example

Moving buildings is hugely expensive and time-consuming (it's been done once in Warsaw for Trasa W-Z when there was no other alternative) and the Emperor's hall is only small part of one ruined room of one long destroyed building incorporated into a new complex.

If they want to build a concrete jungle, rather than follow the model of Beijing where so much of the historic city has been wiped out (and God knows, Warsaw has had enough of that) why not follow the model of Paris la Defense. The vast site of the tractor factory in Ursus is waiting.

sobieskiThreads: 82 Posts: 1,143 Joined: Jun 1, 08 ♂	May 3, 11, 11:51 #40
Monia: There will be secon subway line partialy completed for Euro 2012 guests No it will not be. Building permission has only now be granted for the drilling, and for only 3 of the 6 stations.

Monia

May 3, 11, 12:56 #41

The new binding urban plan for Warsaw`s Plac Defilad considers -

in the closest vicinity of the palace of culture :3 buildings as tall as 233 , 245 and 220 m .
and in the area closer to Aleje Jerozolimskie the height of buildings must be a little lower , as figh as 128 - 140 m , on the other side of the square , again some lower buildings . It will be built exactly the way it is showed in a visualization placed in my first post .

The cost of the infrastructure will be about 550 milions zł , but the income from the sales of lots to private investors should be as high as 662 milions of zł , so the budget of the city will be balanced .
The green area will be increased by 1 hectare from the existing area . Besides of the office buildings and shops there will be a museum of modern art and the public space for everyone , so the area will be the real thriving centre for people all day round .

The aldermans who voted for this plan didn`t say a word about geological problems ,the same as planists , architects and construction engineers, whose plan was officially approved .

BTW - the construction of subway is going very fast.

http://www.biuranetnews.pl/news/3263/nowe-projekty/jest-plan-zagospoda rowania-przestrzennego-rejonu-palacu-kultury-i-nauki.html

Monia

May 3, 11, 13:29 #42

The progress in building of Złota 44 developement is very fast and it is an absolute priority for the developer - Orco Group

Deweloper Orco Property Group jest zdeterminowany i dokłada wszelkich starań, aby budynek był widoczny w pełnej krasie na Euro 2012. Dzięki osiągnięciu tak szybkiego tempa budowy będzie to jak najbardziej możliwe. Z uwagi na zdecydowane przyspieszenie tempa prac zwiększono liczebność ekipy budowlanej - obecnie na terenie inwestycji pracuje ponad 120 osób. Liczba robotników od tego momentu będzie się stopniowo zwiększać. Obecnie montowane są szalunki i ściany nośne kolejnego 23 piętra. Na placu budowy od kilku tygodni pracują już dwa dźwigi wieżowe. Każdy z nich ma ponad sto metrów wysokości. Ich wysokość będzie rosnąć razem z budową kolejnych pięter. Jeden z żurawi będzie mierzył 203 m, drugi - 192 m, czyli swą wysokością dorówna Złotej. Prace wspomaga również jeden dźwig pomocniczy. Aby ułatwić robotnikom pracę, jak również ze względów bezpieczeństwa na trzech najwyższych kondygnacjach budowy zamontowana została osłona przeciwwiatrowa RCS. Dzięki niej na wysokości ponad 75 metrów nawet silnie wiejący wiatr nie stanowi przeszkody dla pracujących tam robotników. Latem b.r. rozpocznie się montaż elewacji budynku. Obecnie trwają prace nad projektem tej unikalnej fasady i przygotowania do jej produkcji.

http://www.bankier.pl/wiadomosc/Zlota-44-rosnie-w-rekordowym-tempie-23 27009.html

The progress in the construction of the second line of subway is also very fast thanks to the unique drilling method allowing to move as fast as 1 km per month ( there will be six stations, some parts of the tunel will be swiped under Wisła river . This is the third largest developement in Poland . The whole line will be completed in 2013 .

[youtube=http://www.onet.tv/druga-nitka-metra-w-2013,5635514,11,klip.h tml#]

db1874Threads: 10 Posts: 251 Joined: Jun 28, 07 ♂	Edited by: db1874 May 3, 11, 13:30 #43
Monia: The spire tower is under construction already Warsaw Spire? No it's not, plenty of signs up but no construction yet.

Monia	May 3, 11, 13:38 #44
http://www.urbanity.pl/budynek733/warsaw-spire Can you just wait , few days ? When I have some time I will make a picture myself as some of you are so anxious . Have you visited the construction site personally ?

db1874Threads: 10 Posts: 251 Joined: Jun 28, 07 ♂	Edited by: db1874 May 3, 11, 13:51 #45
Monia: Have you visited the construction site personally ? I've got a grandstand view of the Warsaw Spire site from my apartment and as I said, no construction has started yet, hopefully soon though.

♂ [Suspended]

May 3, 11, 14:04 #46

Monia:

This is what you said :

onetPLuser:
alias Harry -
all the above buildings are either already built, or under construction

I have no need to use aliases when I point out that you are a liar.

Monia:

This is what I said :

Monia:
Some buildings are under construction and some are already build .

No, your orginal statement was in this post and was "Some buildings are under construction and some are already build .Everything should be completed by may 2012". So you lying about what you said.

And you said "Some buildings are under construction and some are already build .Everything should be completed by may 2012" about this film http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cNdpWpH9-Pw&NR=1
That film shows 24 structures: for seven of them construction has started although most of them are still on the stage of doing the foundations; for seventeen of them construction has not started and in many cases will never start. Not a single one will be finished by May 2012.

Monia:

The new binding urban plan for Warsaw`s Plac Defilad considers - ... It will be built exactly the way it is showed in a visualization placed in my first post .

Either you don't know what the word considers means, or you can see into the future or you're a liar. Well, which of those three things has been repeatedly proven?

Monia

May 3, 11, 14:26 #47

Monia:

The new binding urban plan for Warsaw`s Plac Defilad considers

But you obviously don`t know the meaning of the above sentence . You have no idea about planner`s work . This will not happen overnight , it will take 10 maybe more years to come . But everything will be built according to the existing urban plan for this area .

Today there is a plan that is just for the begining .
Why would I lie about that ? There was a huge team of people preparing it for lots of money, so do you think it was just a prank of a city mayor ?

IronsideThreads: 59 Posts: 6,786 Joined: Feb 26, 09 ♂	Edited by: Ironside May 3, 11, 14:34 #48
Phallic symbols of the Greed Civilisation, sporting symbols of a globalisation sham all over the globe. Thy who backed a spotted dick should consume it! Monia: so do you think it was just a prank of a city mayor ? that stupid ***** is capable of everything, should be burnt on stake !

♂ [Suspended]

May 3, 11, 14:46 #49

Monia:

But you obviously don`t know the meaning of the above sentence .

They say "We consider ..." You say "There will be ..." See any difference there?

Monia:

But everything will be built according to the existing urban plan for this area .

No it won't? How many plans for central Warsaw have come and gone over the years? The Zelazna Brama estate was built to be temporary housing while Ursynow was built (hence the 25-year lifespan) but 40 years later they are still there! Even MDM hasn't been finished yet!

Monia:

Why would I lie about that ?

Because you can't help yourself and you think that you are smart enough to get away with it. But you are not smart enough and you can not get away with it. See for example the way in my post above where I point out that none of the buildings you claim will all be completed by May 2012 will be finished by then and the vast majority haven't even been started yet (or never will be).

Monia:

There was a huge team of people preparing it for lots of money, so do you think it was just a prank of a city mayor ?

The city is extremely good at wasting money. Just look at how they started building a new Saski palace and then realised that firstly they didn't have the money and secondly they had no idea what was going to be in huge space that they would build!

Monia

May 3, 11, 17:54 #50

Harry:

Not a single one will be finished by May 2012.

You are the one who will be informed as first person about the cancelled , ongoing or finished construction by the city hall and the investor, aren`t you ?
If you are able to read polish , you will find out that 5 of them will be finished .

As you can see on the movie , there are some office buildings which are already finished but they are not all situated in the city centre .

Speaking about high rise buildings , 5 of them will be finished ( at least the front ), so don`t say they will not .

I have never said that they would be occupied by tenants by 2012 . Read my information as a general information .

I am not going to argue with you .

My intention was to inform some members about new developments which are being prepared . Some movies were prepared before the crisis, so maybe some of the buildings will not be finished by Euro 2012 . It is also not my fault if some developer cancelled his planned construction . But it was not my intention to give some misleading information to anybody . I gave the link - if someone have got some time he can always find out more about certain developments . Because I don`t have time to check all the specifications about constructions showed in that particular link it is not a reason to call me a liar .

I have no reason to do it , but I have to admit that you are on the other hand one of a kind compulsive denier!

JonnyMThreads: 16 Posts: 4,487 Joined: Mar 9, 11 ♂	May 3, 11, 18:16 #51
Monia: some of the buildings will not be finished by Euro 2012 Some or most? Monia: It is also not my fault if some developer cancelled his planned construction Well, it would be good to have up to date information rather than something that sounds like a press release from North Korea. The forum for Warsaw at skyscrapercity.com is usually a bit more accurate.

♂ [Suspended]

May 3, 11, 18:17 #52

Monia:

If you are able to read polish , you will find out that 5 of them will be finished .

Could you perhaps name the five buildings which you claim will be finished by May 2012? Just so we know.

I've just stuck my head out of the door and had a look at the building in your sci-fi flicks which will be most finished 12 months from now: there is no way in hell it will be ready for handover in 52 weeks!

Monia:

so maybe some of the buildings will not be finished by Euro 2012

Not even a single one will be.

You remind me a bit of the Turks some of us met a year and a bit ago: they couldn't understand why everybody laughed when they said "The Metro will be finished by 2012". Although I get the feeling that your comments are based rather on lies than on ignorance.

Monia

May 3, 11, 19:24 #53

Skyscrapers under construction:

no. name of the building total height height to the roof number of floors planned year of finishing
1 Złota 44 (Orco)
2 Hines Tower (Twarda Tower)
3 JM Tower
4 BBI Development (Plac Unii)
5 Prosta Tower

Those 5 will be build and finished by 2013 , not everything wil be occupied by tenants of course in 2012 , it all depends on the situation , so if anything slows down a bit , I am certainly not the one to blame !

But the nice elevation structure will be seen during Euro 2012 , it really doesn`t matter if some inside work will be still under way . Who cares about it anyway . To me the most important idea will be that Warsaw will look nice , we will get some new high rise buildings and whats more important , a new national stadium and few other in other cities, quite new road system and highways will be built ( thats more important ).
I am very happy about it , but if you prefer to critisize everybody for everything and looking for some flaws that`s your problem .

Do you find it funny to argue with me about the things I have not any influence above . I am not a mentalist contrary to you .

♂ [Suspended]

May 3, 11, 20:01 #54

Monia:

1 Złota 44 (Orco)

There is no chance at all that that building will be ready for handover by May 2012. Even the developers themselves say that they will "endeavour to complete the construction of the structure and external elevations of the building by the Euro 2012 Tournament", i.e. they are trying to have the outside done by June 2012 but not a chance of it being finished inside by June 2012.

Monia:

2 Hines Tower (Twarda Tower)

Remind me how many floors of that have so far been built. Oh yes, less than zero: they are not even close to finishing the foundations yet. Clearly that will be finished 52 weeks from now! Even this time last year, before they hit the usual delays, completion was scheduled for 'end of 2012' (source)

Monia:

3 JM Tower

The shell should be done by May 2012, but will it be ready for handover by then? Not judging from what I saw when I walked past it three days ago.

Monia:

4 BBI Development (Plac Unii)

They haven't even selected the general contractor yet! Even the developer is currently saying on their own website "Construction works at Plac Unii have started in September 2010 and will finish in mid 2013." (link) but you tell us that you know better than the people who are building the thing when it will be finished. Either that or you're just lying, yet again.

Monia:

5 Prosta Tower

That building was supposed to be up by 2008 as appartments but now it is supposed to be offices but before it can be finished a few tiny little problems with loans to pay for the work need solving!

gumishuThreads: 17 Posts: 3,943 Joined: Apr 6, 09 ♂	May 3, 11, 20:13 #55
Harry: The real scandal here is that city hall keep spending money on making this kind of utterly stupid design projects when they'd do better to purchase a few lorryloads of tarmac, some shovels and some guys who actually do some work. what do you expect of a PO+SLD run local government?

HarryThreads: 62 Posts: 8,508 Joined: May 2, 07 ♂ [Suspended]	May 3, 11, 20:50 #56
Monia: Those 5 will be build and finished by 2013 Oops, I just noticed that bit! Given that your original claim was that "Everything should be completed by may 2012", does you changing your statement to "by 2013" mean that even you now agree that your original claim was a lie?

♂

May 3, 11, 21:34 #57

Monia:

The progress in the construction of the second line of subway is also very fast thanks to the unique drilling method allowing to move as fast as 1 km per month ( there will be six stations, some parts of the tunel will be swiped under Wisła river . This is the third largest developement in Poland . The whole line will be completed in 2013 .

More bare faced lies.

gumishu:

what do you expect of a PO+SLD run local government?

Yet they've achieved more than the PiS boobies ever did. And the citizens of Warsaw are quite clear who they trust.

sobieskiThreads: 82 Posts: 1,143 Joined: Jun 1, 08 ♂	May 3, 11, 22:03 #58
gumishu: what do you expect of a PO+SLD run local government? The only thing the duck was doing in Warsaw was the uprising museum and then turning into a propaganda statement.

♂

May 3, 11, 22:10 #59

JonnyM:

Yet they've achieved more than the PiS boobies ever did. And the citizens of Warsaw are quite clear who they trust.

with the great help of central government and EU funds I guess - things Lech Kaczyński could only have dreamed of while in the office - I don't claim his presidency was perfect or even better than average - but there was very little corruption unlike in the present (you are witnessing one of the current presidency scams just here in this thread as suggested by Harry)

HarryThreads: 62 Posts: 8,508 Joined: May 2, 07 ♂ [Suspended]	May 3, 11, 22:14 #60
gumishu: but there was very little corruption unlike in the present (you are witnessing one of the current presidency scams just here in this thread as suggested by Harry) Could you remind me which party it was that decided to spend so much money building a new Saski palace? Under PiS equally stupid plans for the centre of Warsaw were drawn up too.

POLAND . The Unofficial Guide	Unanswered \| Archives
POLAND . The Unofficial Guide	Polska, Polonia, Poland	Witamy, Guest \| PF Members \| Gold Members

Home \| Unanswered \| Archives \| Random \| Statistics	Time in Poland: 01:16 / May 27
About Us \| Contact Us \| Rules, Privacy \| Poland Advertising	© 2005-12 PolishForums.com