People who bought in Katowice Oak teraces phase I and phase II

Witamy, [Guest 38.107.191.85]

eleanoroconnerThreads: 4 Posts: 62 Joined: Nov 8, 07 Gender: Female	Jan 28, 09, 15:53 #81
eleanoroconner: SeanBM: But Eleanoroconner is not saying that Wroclaw Boy's prices are bad Absolutely. They are not for Oak Terraces and the like But, but, but - forgot to mention this: I would be very happy with Wroclaw Boys finish on a 1970s build or bottom end student type property. However there is one other thing to add to Margaret's comment. She said it's important to know what you are getting. It is also important to know who you are dealing with. The outbursts from WB in this thread would make me think twice. I want to deal with a professional company, not someone who goes off the deep end at criticism. Can you imagine the snagging? ... "This doesn't look right" "Your just saying that because you hate me! You don't know what your talking about! Don't ridicule my company" Sorry WB but if this thread is anything to go by I wouldn't risk it... It's no offence to you, and I know you are about to come back with a knife between your teeth, but if this forum is anything to go by you do what might be good work a great disservice. Ultimately where I might have used you in the future I hesitate because of your defensive, rather than constructive nature. Seen it in Poland too many times. But as you have said in previous posts you don't want my business so no lost sleep for you there!

margaretThreads: - Posts: 7 Joined: Jan 2, 09 Gender: Male	Jan 28, 09, 16:10 #82
eleanor, yes you are right, there is not much point flaffing around when you dont know what your doing, but fortunately our time spent is within our job context and hopefully will be rewarded when we continue to expand into the polish market. Our apartments are our polish pilot scheme and will form part of our portfolio. we are not actually intending to get into the fit out market like mamdom, but more the design end of things, but who knows. thanks for your help with all your comments as they have let us know we are heading in the right direction.

eleanoroconnerThreads: 4 Posts: 62 Joined: Nov 8, 07 Gender: Female	Jan 29, 09, 11:11 #83
I found my "back of a fag packet calculations" today from a couple of years back when I was working out how much it would cost me to do the fit out myself. I've done some updating on the costs so stand back for the math! Flights Got to get there! 300 PLN for an easyjet return flight if you book well in advance. One trip at the beginning and hopefully no others until the end. 300 x 2 = 600 PLN Accommodation and Meals I reckoned on 10 days in all, 7 at the beginning and 3 at the end to choose, buy and get materials. A hotel like the Camponile is about 170 PLN a night and you'll need to eat out noon and night which would be about 80 PLN per day. 10 days at 250 PLN per day - 2,500 PLN Car Hire As Margaret mentioned there'll be driving involved to find the stuff and you'll need an estate car just incase you need to take it from the shop yourself. Lets take a Ford Focus which will be about 180 per day for 7 days. We'll need petrol - maybe 200 PLN. 180 x 7 = 1260 + 200 = 1460 Incidentals There will always be other costs - airport parking, a bottle of wine to keep you sane, etc. Rule of thumb would be 10%. 4,560 x 10% = 450 (to keep things straightforward). So far the tab is 5,000 PLN but now there is an cost for further down the road. Tax You can't take any of the above expenses off your rental income even though you had to spend them because of the property so you will need to pay about 20% tax on money you haven't really earnt from your rent. 5,000 x 20% = 1,000 PLN Materials and Labour No matter what you do you are not going to buy at the same terms as a full time fit out company - they're probably in bed with the manufacturer or the wholesaler. In Margarets case above she pad 1,085 per square meter. I paid 875 per sqm for materials and labour. Difference of 210 but to keep things simple and be conservative we'll say an average punter will pay 200 PLN per sqm more than the pro's and an average apartment is 50 sqm. 50 x 200 = 10,000 PLN Lost Rent While your banging your head against a brick wall in a shop a fit out company is already working. We'll assume it takes you two weeks longer than the pro's (and I believe that to be very conservative) and your apartment would rent for 2,000 PLN per month which is low end. 2,000 / 2 (half the month) = 1,000 PLN So the tab so far is 17,000 PLN for the tangables. You can plug your own figures in - save a bit by bedding down in a hostel with the backpackers or surviving on kebabs or you can pay a bit more staying in a more upmarket hotel and eating Sushi! For a 50 sqm apartment a project management fee from the likes of Mamdom or Keen (et al.) is going to be about 30,000 PLN. So from Wroclaw Boys point of view I'm being "taken to the cleaners to the tune of 13,000". If you were doing this with, say two others you could divide the costs but then the Mamdom fee would be lower as well so it works out about the same. Now come the intangables. Labour - this is hard to find in the UK, let alone in a foreign land so some of what you are paying for is the fit out companies knowledge in this area. Time - if you can value your time it's quick to work out. I'm self employed and if I'm not here I'm not earning. On this measure alone I would be worse off if I spent my time trying to sort out the fit out. If your rich, don't need to work and don't have anything else to do the value of your time is zero! Stress - things go wrong in life and with building work. Value peace of mind however you want - its why I pay lettings agents in the UK to give me Property Management. Design - where is that fine balance between "bland" and "neutral"? I'm not a designer so I don't know. A good fit out company who knows the local market does and so you pay to some extent for this skill and knowledge. If you get it wrong your property will have longer void periods which looses rent - that's a cost for down the road but a very real one Opportunity Cost - if your flaffing around in a shop your not looking for your next investment. I spend about half my holidays each year sniffing around the edges of Polish cities for non-descript new developments where I can pick up a good buy-to-let deal. The other half is actually my holiday and we all need that so by trying to do a fit out myself I might be loosing out on getting my money into something that will give me a return. This, I have to say, is very different to Margarets situation. For her these early "losses" are part of a learning experience because she will be doing this over and over again in the future. In her case its an investment and if you, like Margaret and I, are still expanding your Polish property portfolio while everyone alse in running around like startled chickens in a farm yard, and you have the time and resource, it's worth thinking about. You have to make your own cost calculations to see how it would work out for you but it's important to remember what you are really "saving". Don't be like the muppet who drives to the next town to save 2p per litre on unleaded!!!!

real state	Jan 29, 09, 13:06 #84
wow that was a long one elenor, how much did you lose composing that,maybe people like spending time doing it all themselves, and get a kick out of saying, i done the lot and then only profit say 15,000 euros as oppose to 20,000 euros and the five thousand was spent on self education and fun, go on would you, here you are educated by the way and probably loaded so fair play to you,,,and heres us thinking scottish people were tight lol lol lol lol lol

real state	Jan 29, 09, 13:13 #85
eleanoroconner: Agreed Wroclaw Boy - there are plenty of agents and fit out companies that do the same but cheaper. PS/RedNet/Keen Property have been doing well and fair cop to them because investors have been lazy. elenor me old girl , are you contradicting yourself, or have i read you wrong, thought you were running down people who went to do the work themselves. maybe not, go on give us your reply, seeing you have loads of time to do so because you are also a lazy investor

Wroclaw Boy	Jan 30, 09, 05:11 #86
eleanoroconner: I would be very happy with Wroclaw Boys finish on a 1970s build or bottom end student type property. However there is one other thing to add to Margaret's comment. She said it's important to know what you are getting. Ive only got one thing to say to you: what part of we too can install expensive 1500 PLN / m2 fittings do you NOT understand?

dtaylorThreads: 15 Posts: 1016 Joined: Sep 15, 07 Gender: Male	Jan 30, 09, 05:18 #87
Elenor works for Mandom...

eleanoroconnerThreads: 4 Posts: 62 Joined: Nov 8, 07 Gender: Female	Feb 10, 09, 10:44 #88
real state: thought you were running down people who went to do the work themselves Fair point. But there are two types of "doing it yourself". Homework you can do on the net or by 'phone which takes very little time and tramping around shops trying to find tiles in a foreign country. My point was many PS says "Buy on this development" and the investors say "alright then". PS say "use rednet as your agent" and the investors say "alright then". Rednet say "use Keen to fit your property out" and the investors say "alright then" without ever doing any of their own homework to see if any of the above is actually a good idea. I had a look at the PS forum the other day. Lots of people moaning about how they hadn't made any money - now where's the "secret" in that? Wroclaw Boy: what part of we too can install expensive 1500 PLN / m2 fittings do you NOT understand? Hoorah WB! At last! I don't think we would ever have had this argument if you had looked at Oak Terrace, understood it and proposed a sensible finish at a sensible price. But 1500 is not expensive. A flat that won't rent or sell is expensive. A fit out which needs rework in the first 24 months is expensive. real state: how much did you lose composing that dtaylor: Elenor works for Mandom... I think you're saying I am obsessing about this. Thank you for the slap in the face. 'nuff said.

SeanBMThreads: 37 Posts: 5419 Joined: Mar 10, 08 Gender: Male	Feb 10, 09, 11:14 #89
eleanoroconner: But 1500 is not expensive. Does that price include furniture etc... i.e. completely finished ready to let out?.

Wroclaw Boy

Edited by: Wroclaw Boy Feb 11, 09, 09:04 #90

eleanoroconner:

Hoorah WB! At last! I don't think we would ever have had this argument if you had looked at Oak Terrace, understood it and proposed a sensible finish at a sensible price.

She's saying im too cheap, thats a first. BTW dont forget this is Katowice were talking about here not the business district in Warsaw.

eleanoroconner:

But 1500 is not expensive. A flat that won't rent or sell is expensive. A fit out which needs rework in the first 24 months is expensive.

Look youre a foreigner, foreigners are charged way over the top as their options are limited. Can you imagine Poles paying 1500 PLN / m2, for the same service you had? not in a million years love. If youre going to act like a child i'll talk to you like one.

eleanoroconner:

A flat that won't rent or sell is expensive.

Shes convinced she has to pay loads of money for fit outs or her apartment wont rent or sell.

Here are some pics of one of the more expensive fit outs we covered last year, we charged 850 PLN / m2. 55 m2 apartment.

SeanBMThreads: 37 Posts: 5419 Joined: Mar 10, 08 Gender: Male	Feb 12, 09, 07:41 #91
1500Zloty is too much even for Oak teraces but it is the going rate for foreigners. Some posters try too hard to justify the price they paid.

daniel.podpora	Mar 11, 09, 10:09 #92
halo all In last week I daid goodbye to rednet. I have notice that a lot of my cusotmers are here. if you have not heard from me please contact me to daniel.podpora@gmail.com Ps also blocked my login in PS forum :) what they are affraid of? good service from myme? regards Daniel Mortgage Advicor

Guest	Mar 16, 09, 23:15 #93
Daniel, Sad to hear your going - you are the only one who replied to mails. From SusanC - does this mean that Rednet are going under or am I over reacting? There is also no word from Mikolaj? Are you still acting as a mortgage advisor? Susan

daniel.podpora	Mar 18, 09, 22:41 #94
halo Susan thank you for a good word from you. at the moment Mikolaj was moved to developer to sell units and he is overloaded so he is not able to check even e-mail. there is only one person who left in rednet finance and i hope that you have been informed that I left the job and they gave you support with the loan. At the moment I am working as Independent Mortgage Advisor - free lancer if you need any advice please do not hesitate contact me on my e-mail daniel.podpora@gmail.com kind regards Daniel

daniel.podpora	Mar 23, 09, 19:36 #95
halo SusanC how things move on with your loan? everything is fine. I hope rednet arranged for you a good deal regards Daniel

Wroclaw Boy	Mar 27, 09, 08:19 #96
eleanoroconner: But 1500 is not expensive. What happened to elaine? Did i finally put her away for good?

davidpeakeThreads: 18 Posts: 532 Joined: Nov 7, 06 Gender: Male	Edited by: davidpeake Mar 27, 09, 11:01 #97
WB have you done any house fit outs around the Wroclaw area?

Wroclaw Boy	Mar 27, 09, 11:09 #98
davidpeake: WB have you done any house fit outs around the Wroclaw area? Pm sent

davidpeakeThreads: 18 Posts: 532 Joined: Nov 7, 06 Gender: Male	Mar 27, 09, 11:59 #99
thanks, will send you a more detailed one next week when i have time.

SusanCThreads: - Posts: 4 Joined: Dec 7, 08 Gender: Female	Jul 1, 09, 20:19 #100
Hi Daniel, Sorry... I do not check this forum often. This whole investment is a mess for me iPA have completely been rubbish at delivering any service and also I have been through Open Finance and the only mortgage they could get after rednet let me down was 9.9%. They had said that this was because of short notice and I needed to act quickly. What are the best offers at the moment? I have another development on and need to get a mortage. I am currenlty approaching Deutche Bank? Thanks, Susan

daniel.podpora	Jul 5, 09, 20:31 #101
halo Susan I was sending you many e-mails but I have not received reply. As I see you have been given the most expensive offer on the market. 9,9% is very high especially when your financial situation is very good. If i were you I would apply to another bank because you will not receive a bank decision in time from DB. If you wish to use my service please contact me on daniel.podpora@gmail.com regards Daniel

parkheathThreads: - Posts: 3 Joined: Oct 1, 09 Gender: Female	Oct 1, 09, 17:19 #102
We have just sold 3 flats on Debowe Tarasy (Oak Terraces). If anyone wants to sell his flat- please, contact us, as we have few customers looking in buying something in phase 1. m.janikowska@parkheath.com Monika Janikowska

Wroclaw BoyThreads: 25 Posts: 1745 Joined: Jul 3, 09 Gender: Male GOLD MEMBER	Oct 1, 09, 17:27 #103
parkheath: We have just sold 3 flats on Debowe Tarasy (Oak Terraces). Did you make the owners any money?

parkheathThreads: - Posts: 3 Joined: Oct 1, 09 Gender: Female	Oct 1, 09, 19:06 #104
Of course. That's what we are for.

Wroclaw BoyThreads: 25 Posts: 1745 Joined: Jul 3, 09 Gender: Male GOLD MEMBER	Oct 1, 09, 19:09 #105
parkheath: Of course. That's what we are for. Incorrect youre here to sell property for your own personal gains, can you confirm the price / sq meter youll be advertising the properties for?

parkheathThreads: - Posts: 3 Joined: Oct 1, 09 Gender: Female	Oct 2, 09, 08:18 #106
Price per sqm depends on the building, floor and size of flat. If you owe an apartment, please send me details om my e-mail- we will make a valuation and agree the price.

vishalThreads: - Posts: 1 Joined: Oct 11, 09 Gender: Male	Oct 19, 09, 19:26 #107
Hi After a year of red tape with my Polish bank in getting them to release the second tranche of the mortgage, I am nearly in a position to fit out my apartment in Oak Terraces II. Also in the final stages of fitting out an appt in Platan, Swinoujscie where I faced the same issues with the Bank. Good news is that I am finally making progress before my cash totally runs out. Would welcome getting in touch with folks that also bought in either developments. Vishal

Previous thread	Next thread
Alternative energy sources to use with newely-built houses in Poland	PRICE OF WARSAW BED-SIT?

Poland: the Good, the Bad, ...	Latest Discussions \| Unanswered Poles in Poland and Abroad	Witamy, [Guest 38.107.191.85]