The importance of Catholicism during marriage with a Polish girl

I have been dating this polish girl for almost 3 years and among the strong difficulties, e.g. distance (I am in germany) and she in Poland, and only visiting each other for a few day every 2 months, the religion is a big deal, in my point of view. This is because I am not into the religion as she does. I do believe in god, but not in such a strong way, for me it is not important the church/place and all festivities around it, I try to follows what is right based on the human common sense. At the begin was great, promises from her side, to follow me event to my place, time & separation change her mind, and now I am restricted to stay in UE. Sometime I feel a bit of immaturity, anyway I am deviating my question. Maybe another time!.

One question to the audience is about: if my character as a liberal will bring more troubles of understanding in the future as a couple, maybe even during a long-term marriage.

If there's mutual understanding and the two of you are able to appreciate each other's company and compliment each other both mentally and physically, value each other's personalities, really love each other, share a sense of humour and have a lot of patience with each other then I really don't see how religion could ever be more important than the two of you? (But I guess that's just my opinion!)


I've got to hand it to you, you almost had me bragging again.

;P

Liberal view is what you will get here as 90% of posters here are not Polish (AJ is Dutch, BTW), and they mostly hate anything that has a cross on it. Dozens of threads will confirm this.

Liberal view, here? Really? Did you manage to forget about all the right wing Polish Americans? Dozens of threads certainly confirm that there exists a significant amount of right wingers on here.

This forum seems to be pretty evenly split between liberal Europeans and conservative Americans.

Incidentally, most liberals don't hate the cross, but rather hate the people who use the cross as a political weapon. Many liberals (myself included) despise the use of the cross as a political weapon by *all* sides.

As I wrote, there are nearly no Poles here. I know you don't hate the cross since you don't really follow Judaism.

Welcome to the rest of the world?


Yes he is. (Got a problem with that?) I don't hate everything that has a cross on it, but it's not exactly a mystery I strongly disagree with judgemental and narrow-minded people who happen to lie and slander anyone and anything for merely having different ideas.


Read my last post in No Nonsense's thread about the Catholic Church, and then tell me what's so hateful about anything I wrote. You? I'm not even going to tell people what you are, because I will let people think for themselves. (And I'm pretty sure they will notice!) You can stop lying about me though, because I don't actually hate anyone who has a belief. I'm sure you've noticed we all have freedom of speech, and I'm just as much entitled to an opinion as you are. It's cool if you disagree, but don't lie about me. Thank you.

:)

Religion can divide people. It doesn't have to be important at the beginning when emotions and feelings are at the first plan, but I'm afraid if she is a strong Catholic the fact you aren't very much into religion will finally cause she will start to think if she wants to be with a person for whom belief is not as important as it is for her.

You can always discuss the matters of faith and God.

The faith and the God which divides people and make them think of separating, are both unnecessary and trouble makers. Sorry if it offends you or anyone, but just my opinion.

Lodz_The_Boat

Yeah, that's truth, I agree with You. It doesn't look good IMO, when faith becomes a problem in a relationship.

Firstly, the reason you fell in love with this woman was for who she is. Religion is a strong part of her upbringing and values. If you make her change, she will not be the same person. If you respect her 100% then you should accept her belief in god and her values.If you decide to get married, you are allowed to be married in a Catholic church as an agnostic, but you will make a pact with god to bring up your children as Catholics. This is what she would want as a Catholic mother.

This thread should really be about "Is it acceptable to force religious change or blackmail on someone" the obvious answer is " NO"

Well, I dont agree with that. If you really respect each other religion. And it should be mutual. There shouldnt be such pact that the kids have to be Catholics. Impart them with the values of both religions and let them choose what religion they want to adapt or may be both. Why not both? Religion is just a link to supreme God.. And there are many links. I believe one should be a good human rather than too religious. I would like to quote something that once I read..

"People have forgotton the message of God and rather they are following the messengers blindly. They should follow the message, not messengers"

Right you are, Noreenb.
Galford, answering your question, looks like the girl is a bit of a parochial orthodox. With your open-mindness and her lack of it, you will be having misunderstandings in many major issues of your common life. The relationship is a big question mark here, sorry...

I did understand her reason, in part I am a bit like her in other issues, my career and dreams/action to stop people damaging themselves and our world. I feel a bit responsible for that and thus I follow blindly strong moral principles. We are similar in a coarse picture, just in the local day-and-day we have different perspective. I wish people could organize better the global part of the live, project and try to help each other. So far, I am patient and try to adapt myself to her ideas, it cost a lot and sometime I feel that I will get tired one day. Hopefully, she might understand if not too late the importance of the partner "above everything" , his dreams and wishes for both. I do and try to help us as much as possible!.

You mean she should give up her religion, because you are more important. What about her wishes for both and the future extended family.

I did not mean that, she is totally free to continue having her religion and put it above our relationship.[this is perhaps where I do not get the point of the religion&long-term relationships, are they equal for some Catholics, someone who is into that can explain it to me] Honestly, I believe it is right because one cannot change my girlfriend's mind, what I am asking whether she could open a bit more her mind, for sure there is plenty of space and there I would like to see us, and no more religious constrain, for example: The fact that sex (i.e. make love) has to be waited until the marriage or some no tolerance to other people's behavior, while I spend more time in this relationship I see both sides, beautiful to find someone who believes in family,supports the boyfriend (in the future husband) project of life and above all security that she will love you truly for who you are and not cheat on you with the first fancy guy. On the other hand, to be limited by such ideas, no possibilities to explore everything together makes me sad.

Catholics and christians are taught to love GOD above everything so religion is first and foremost. We are only here a short time compared to eternity and your

girlfriend wants to be in heaven for eternity. You should respect her for her religious beliefs or go with someone who doe not truly believe in GOD and does not

care about eternal life.

Sorry dude but Catholicism states that girls that don't marry in the Catholic church can be excommunicated, therefore she won't be able to marry you any other way. You should be able capitalize god......God, not god... if you have respect for your creator. You should be into catholicism it is the only true religion, all others are fake. You can not be a true believe until you follow Catholic teachings, "christianity" is just created by protestant reformation who wanted to destroy Catholic church because they were too lazy to keep up with Catholic traditions. If you want to marry her you better get baptized or else she probably won't marry you. Especially because 99% of Polish people are catholic, Pope John Paul II was Polish he was archbishop in Krakow before being Pope... therefore Polish people highly revere the Pope and prominent Catholics especially when they are Polish. Polish people see Catholic church and Jesus and the most important thing in life. If you have any respect for her you will convert to catholicism.

Could anybody else have summarized things better? Great advice.

BS. Christ's Resurrection was physical not spiritual.

For me, not at all. For my wife's bro's, very important. What is it that they would insist on beyond baptisms?

Not so fast. :):):)


Yes, everything may be fine, as long as you haven`t got children.

What will you do if kids appear? Will you agree to your wife teaching them Catholicism? When staying in Poland, will you agree to send them to Catholic religion classes at school? Accept Holy Communion? Confirmation? Catholic wedding?

If your answer is yes, there won`t be any problem.


Not true.

Galford, a piece of advice, if I may. I married a strong Catholic believer and I don`t regret. She is a good, faithful wife and I fully trust her.

Accept your partner`s beliefs, have a lot of children and teach them your wife`s faith. If you also teach them tolerance and understanding, they will be perfect citizens one day.

Okay people, please hear me out, whether you are religious or not? I will try to explain what *I* think your religion *should* be about.


According to some texts, Jesus told people to love God like we love ourselves, and to love each other like we love ourselves, and he *also* told us that God is inside each and *everyone* of us, and that we are *all* a part of God ourselves. He told people that God is love. So in loving each other we *are* loving God, whether we realise this or not, believe this or not, follow these rules or not, make mistakes or not.

Why do you think that, according to various texts, Jesus told people that a servant of God serves all people? That's right, because he told people that we're all a part of God like God is a part of us. So in serving people you serve God according to Jesus. In loving people you love God. So come back to me when you love the Prnstar just as much as you love the Priest, because then you'd truly *understand* what Jesus *tried* to teach you.

:)


I have two words for you: Unconditional love. Do you *really* know what unconditional means? Are you sure? Because it seems to me you're *still* afraid..


You shouldn't do anything what someone else tell you. You should listen to your *own* heart and what it tells *you*, because that's the *only* way that you'll *ever* find love. It starts with accepting yourself for who you are, instead of judging yourself for who you are. I happen to respect people who believe in something, but of course that doesn't mean I'm *always* telling everyone non sense, and I'm certainly not telling you *any* lies here.

:)


Could there be anything *more* important in a relationship than loving each other for who we are to each other? (Apparently some people here seem to think so!)

:S


Oh really? So which is the part you disagree with? (I'm curious!)


Think about the future of your children for a second and be sensible, and have one or two children. I mean, do you *really* want your children to grow up in a world of twenty billion people or maybe even more, because everyone wants to have a lot of children?


I will let them be kids, and try to teach them about life and people as best as I can.


No. But don't worry, I'm not going to date someone who doesn't understand anything about life, and that's *exactly* why I've said mutual understanding is *very* important.


No. I believe children should be allowed to form their own opinions about life as they experience life for themselves in *all* freedom. How will children know *anything* about what's true or false if they're not allowed to experience the truth for themselves? How will children *ever* learn from anything if they're not allowed to make mistakes? How will fear of doing something wrong shape their character? How will that teach them *anything* about love, respect or tolerance?


No. I believe we're *all* human beings, and that *all* of us are *extremely* capable of being unpleasant towards one another, just as we are *all* capable of being good to each other, no matter how many labels we attach to ourselves to make ourselves look or sound different from one another. My philosophy is that the only remedy for hatred, intolerance and agression is to accept that we are *all* human beings.


Who knows? If I ever have kids, and they grow up, and they want to become Catholic out of their own free will as young adolescents who *are* capable of thinking for themselves, then who am I to tell them I will excommunicate them from my family if they would ever marry a Catholic girl or guy? All I care about is if they genuinely *love* each other.


Let me tell you one thing about life, because I think *everyone* who's mature enough will understand me; There's *always* a problem. But you know, I wouldn't have it any other way, because this means we *still* have the freedom to disagree with each other. It would be a *real* scary world if we would all think the same, talk the same, look the same and sound the same. I just hope that one day we will *all* agree about *one* thing though, and that's that you should be allowed to be yourself and allow others to be themselves as well. I don't see why we should shut each other out because of a different opinion, a different idea or a different belief when we can listen to each other, talk to each other and who knows we can learn a thing or two from each other in doing so.


According to some texts, Jesus told people there is no sin. But have it your way: According to Catholic texts, Jesus died for our sins. Either way: There is no sin. (According to me quite a few written words in quite a few sources are *lies* which were designed to keep people small.)

;))

A J, you are highly educated but many Catholics here are nothing more than label slappers. Why bother? You are dealing with those that look for that which they feel they should be rather than who they actually are at heart.

:):):):)

I can see you qouted me many times. And presented your stand quite thoroughly. It sounds reasonable and very wise. Taken from great philosophy and ethics classes, for sure. However, I don`t care about it because what I said was directed to galford, not you. And what is more, I hate philosophy. But thank you anyway. :):):)


However, this part is really pathetic. It is not longer philosophy, it is a cry of an impotent. :):):)

Typical Pole. A J puts forward a cogent and clear case and Poles sweep it off. Shame on you! Poles are just sticker slappers and folk like A J will always come out tops when it comes to rational argument. He knows what he is talking about whereas Poles simply don't. Poles don't even know what Catholic means, ROTFL.

Seanus, I can see that today you have fallen out not only with mods, but your wife again. :):):):):):):)
Stop this cheap bashing, really. :):):):)

Shame on you. :):):):)

PS. I hope you are all right.
PS2. Sorry for that impotent. I didn`t intend to offend you.

My wife is fine, thanks :) I was just being truthful. In Scotland, we are trained in how Catholics are different from Protestants. We have a sectarian divide and educated folks see the difference. In Poland, you have never truly known that so you have no benchmarks or yardsticks. Too much blind faith exists here and A J would embarrass many with his smart analysis.

Now, it is better. :):):)


She may be fine, but you aren`t. :):):)


Yes, and I appreciate it. :):):)


Great, however, half of it is lost on me and other Poles, I suppose, as you are using too sophisticated coloquialisms. :):):) I don`t have time to look them up. Could you write normal English? What is sectarian divide, benchmarks, yardsticks? :):):):)

No it doesnt, it sounds like lets throw everything into the air and see what happens. The sense of community and continuity that belonging to a church brings should not be underestimated.

My differences place me above, pawian. A J and I see it much better than weak sticker folk.