Unmarried couples in Poland = pathology

The perceived modern failure of marriages is in fact, due to that quaint (and entirely liberal/modern) expectation that one marries for love, and not duty. The 'success' of marriages in the idealised past is inextricably linked to the notion that duty overrides all the other crap that a spouse would otherwise not put up with.

And I partly agree with you, if someone marries only for love than it will fail . Love is not eternal. It expands and contracts like a balloon. When it is full you can float above all the crap below you but withut a care in the world but when a little air seeps out things can look a little brighter looking somewhere else.

I guess I'd rather just be happy in life.

Duty and self sacrifice is an integral part of a succesful marriage.

My wife wouldn't have tolerated it.

But what you say about self-sacrifice (not the same thing at all, it's more personal, less dictated by convention) strikes a chord with me. It got us (15 years and counting) through a rough patch a while back. Perspective (and a gorgeous 1-year-old boy, the apple of our eyes and all that) shows us what a huge waste it would have been to have thrown in the towel then. Now the love is fully restored, we're closer now than we've ever been.

Now, why should this only happen in a married couple? In an unmarried couple there can be a similar fear of retribution.

Now, why should this only happen in a married couple? In an unmarried couple there can be a similar fear of retribution.

I think without that piece of paper there is a lessened sense of duty and commitment.

It's about respect for the other person in your life. My relationship has outlasted most marriages, through thick and thin. No need for a piece of paper. We have joint ownership of property, live together, have the same friends...we can't fall back on that piece of paper, we adjust ourselves to make things work because we want to be together. Good times.

Nice. Think you would have thrown in the towel had you not had that 'piece of paper' saying you were married?

So it wasn't religion or social stigma it was the lady herself.

Now, why should this only happen in a married couple? In an unmarried couple there can be a similar fear of retribution.

People keep talking about about failed marriages. How many failed relationships have we all been in. I would venture to say there are a lot more failed relationships out there than marriages. Is this only because there is some economic deterance involved with getting divorced or is it people still try harder when they are married?

Dunno, I guess I'd rather just be happy in life. It's working out pretty well so far.

There is very little social or religious stigma associated with divorce today. Turn back the clock 50 years and there is a huge difference.

were in fact single. No strings attached. The fact we are married makes me strive to make it work even in the poor times.

Is this only because there is some economic deterance involved with getting divorced or is it people still try harder when they are married?

Agreed. They're necessary - but not sufficient. I see too many cases where duty is the sole justification for a marriage to continue, and that's unacceptable in modern times.

People keep talking about about failed marriages. How many failed relationships have we all been in. I would venture to say there are a lot more failed relationships out there than marriages. Is this only because there is some economic deterance involved with getting divorced or is it people still try harder when they are married?

An important aspect of marriage and divorce is to look at why people get a divorce.

I am a monogamist by default, I think most people aren't and infidelity, is one of the major reasons people get divorced. Anther reason is because of financial difficulties.

i also don't think that having kids should be available just to anyone...

You can't catch a fish here without having a license but you can have as many kids and let others pay to raise them as you want. Something wrong with this...

Absolutely. Why should someone without kids subsidize someone with kids. In complete agreement with you there. Public schools financed through property taxes, tax credits (form of subsidies), Medicaid... bin it all.

alternatively, go to UK and claim chid benefit there.

Right. Like people already on the public dole...

But is that not a good thing? If they had married there would be more failed marriages.

Personally I think divorce is often too easy. I was stunned when, at a class reunion, I met an old friend and commented that our other friend had just got married. The reply, with no trace of irony or joking was, "Congratulations, first or second?"

I also think the days of pressure to get married early and for economic reasons allow more relationships to develop. True, they might break up but I also think this is better than more broken marriages. I think marriage is a serious commitment, not just to be taken for social staus

If you are talking about, a young couple marrying only because they are going to have a baby,

In most religions infidelity is grounds for divorce anyway is it not?

*If it's tradition, pressure, love, reckless abandon... none of them seem to be good enough to even get a tatoo!

*If it's insurance, economics, sense of safety - all false, judging from divorce rates and lawyers raking it in.

*If you think you're going to be a better person because you signed that paper - that hardly ever works. It's not the same thing like paying a lot of money for the gym will make you go more often.

To me, marriage does not represent commitment - staying together whether you're married or not, does. Seems much more so when you're not married.

To me, marriage does not represent commitment - staying together whether you're married or not, does. Seems much more so when you're not married.

I do not see marriage remotely similar to joining a gym.

I still don't want to talk to you.