PolishForums.com
POLAND . The Unofficial Guide
Unanswered | Archives
Poland Now and Then Witamy, Guest | PF Members | Gold Members

Polish Forums / Rozmowy po polsku /

Blake'a idea Upadku


page 2 of 2:  « Prev  1  2 posts: 36

Des EssientesThreads: 11
Posts: 2,318
Joined: Feb 6, 10
 Pictures: 4[Suspended]
 Mar 8, 11, 01:01    #31
Sorry I can't speak Polish, but I did read Mi³osz's In The Land Of Ulro a few years ago and I had the impression that maybe Czes³aw had started to go a little crazy when he began talking about how God appears to people, like his uncle Oscar, as a bright fiery sphere. As for the false dichotomy he gleans from Blake between belief in natural cycles that must lead to selfish nihilism or belief in life as "eternal existence in one divine Man" I'd say that there is another way of seeing the world with its natural cycles as materially divine. Matter is Mother. It is a foolish attachment to the pneumatic conception of an eternal creator that is somehow separate from His temporal creation that has misled both Blake and Mi³osz into gloom.

AdamKadmonThreads: 38
Posts: 1,120
Joined: Apr 23, 10
Edited by: AdamKadmon  Mar 8, 11, 13:24    #32
Des Essientes:
I had the impression that maybe Czes³aw had started to go a little crazy


As Mi³osz admits, his book is both exotic and eccentric, he says that a writer can afford to produce in his lifetime one maverick work; to be frank with readers, he warns them: Dear reader, this book was not intended for you, and I feel you should be forewarned before you enter its bizarre tangle. Maybe it is not for you, maybe it is not for me either.

Many times value lies in what we push aside as worthless. I think this book gives only but glimpses to dangerous truths which are yet to be sheltered from the wrong people. In the land of Ulro it is better to keep thoughts to himself/herself. The fate of such men like Ezra Pound on the one hand and Bruno Jasieñski on the other proves that it is easier to go along to get along than to go against the flow. Now when we all found themselves in the end of history and the only legitimate citizens of this world are the worshipers of the Golden Calf there arise a question where this brave new world is aiming at. Mi³osz when he wrote about Nazism and Stalinism considered both ideologies as dead, so he tried to take on something considerebly more profound. I think that he gained a measure of success in it. He provided a good, tho' vague diagnosis, but did not show us the way out of the land of Ulro.

Now about those vague terms he uses. First, "eternal existence in one divine Man". Have you ever come to think of eternity and what it is? I understand eternity as something you share with other people, either people of the past or of the future, something which does not die in you when you die - that's what I understand by a divine Man. I think that Mi³osz does not want us to return to past time - to the medieval ages, but seeks for a new science, new knowledge, which would return a man to his spiritual home and out of the world in which he is reduced to a superfluous number in a mechanistic universe.

And last excerpt, I think an interesting one:

An idea or an inspiration, no matter how noble, becomes watered down and devalued the more it is worked over by inferior minds; in other words, “everything of substance is undermined, hollowed out by the termites of inferiority.” Says Mi³osz, A priest nurtured on the Freudian-Marxian-Chardinian dregs will be a priest in name only; a teacher, though able to read and write, an illiterate and a corruptor; a politician, an outlaw; artists and poets, the helpers of circus managers who stage spectacles with real blood and live copulation, exactly as in those Roman circus-theaters described by Tertullian. There is the “law of triumphant banality” in which, “weathered by time, the transitory and the spurious fade into gray banality.”

Isn't this an accurate description of where we have found ourselves now?
AdamKadmonThreads: 38
Posts: 1,120
Joined: Apr 23, 10
 Mar 8, 11, 14:12    #33
Errors

is:

we all found themselves

should be:

we all found ourseves
AdamKadmonThreads: 38
Posts: 1,120
Joined: Apr 23, 10
 Mar 8, 11, 14:51    #34
I think that the last excerpt we should take not only as a fine description of today's situation, but also as a warning for us not to water down what Mi³osz wrote in order to make it more accessible for an average man.
Des EssientesThreads: 11
Posts: 2,318
Joined: Feb 6, 10
 Pictures: 4[Suspended]
 Mar 9, 11, 00:51    #35
AdamKadmon:
Have you ever come to think of eternity and what it is?

I have given it some though and come to the conclusion that only Being is eternal whereas beings like ourselves are not. If Mi³osz means Being by "eternal existence in one divine Man" then I object to his anthropomorphic terminology, which I suspect is prompted by his wish to believe in a personal God named Jesus. (Incidentally an idea of "eternal existence in one divine Man" is found in diverse religions such as Cabbalistic Judaism and Jainism. Believers in the latter faith place our current position in the Cosmic Corpus somewhere in the Cosmic Bowels whereas liberated souls inhabit the heavenly Cosmic Brain.) Of course it is likely that I do not understand what Mi³osz meant at all in his strange book. As for "the law of triumphant banality" that is a metaphysical truth that could sadden me everyday. Truly our culture is becoming more and more stupid and there seems to be no effective brake to halt, or even slow, this descent, but rather than despairing over it in the "Spirit of Seriousness" I choose to laugh at it. Mi³osz in his poems and in his superb novel The Issa Valley has such a wonderful sense of humor that is completely lacking in the Ulro book. I gather from some of his autobiographical writings that, while teaching at Berkeley, Mi³osz was deeply offended by the moral relativism of many of his students, so perhaps it was some of my fellow Californians the made him into a curmudgeon. We can have that effect on people. Adam you mentioned the Golden Calf and if I remember correctly there is a passage in Ulro wherein Mi³osz pledges allegiance unto death to "the God of Abraham and Isaac." I object to taking Judaic mythology seriously. Western humanity's universe was once filled with myriad gods but they all died from laughing so hard at grim Jehovah's claim to be the only one.
AdamKadmonThreads: 38
Posts: 1,120
Joined: Apr 23, 10
Edited by: AdamKadmon  Mar 9, 11, 15:27    #36
Des Essientes:
I have given it some though and come to the conclusion that only Being is eternal whereas beings like ourselves are not.


The growing and unacknowledged anxiety in the face of thinking no longer allows insight into the oblivion of Being which determines the age.


page 2 of 2:  « Prev  1  2

Home / Rozmowy po polsku / Unanswered [this forum] | Similar


Similar discussions:

HBO " Czekaj±c na sobotê"  W co inwestowac w Polsce?


Random: Life in Lomza

Only registered and logged-in users may post here. Please log in or register.


36 [Guests - 29 / Members - 7] users on live forums now


Home | Unanswered | Archives | Random | Statistics Time in Poland: 03:12 / May 27

About Us | Contact Us | Rules, Privacy | Poland Advertising

© 2005-12 PolishForums.com