Russian's blame Nazis for "Katyn",are we going backwards?

No reason to lie.

That too. But personally I don't care so much if Russians will admit their blame or not. It won't change the fact. It should be more important for them because if they don't admit, then all nation looks like bunch of cowards and liars.

The problem is that feelings are carried through the generations and have a negative effect on present international relations. Another caveat must be that the atrocities of yesteryears were perpetrated by single ruthless minds or groups of reprobates. We can't hold a nation to account for the blunders of previous administrations. Russia is hardly rubbing anything in Poland's face. People will react the way they will react tho. I remember when the then PM of Japan, Junichiro Koziumi, went to pay his tributes at temples to dead war heroes which triggered no end of criticism and animosity. He was castigated by fellow Asian countries but he was merely following his side

Thanks GOD!!!!! Golden words!!!! I know, you are a really claver woman!!!

At last the truth will be at hand. This was not a war directed at Jewish, this was directed toward "ALL POLISH", we shall no longer be forgotten.



http://www.spiegel.de/international/germany/0,1518,535594,00.html

Isn't it the same?

No, not all Polish are Jewish, in fact most are Catholic.

But sure all jews are polish

quote=ConstantineK] all jews are polish [/quote]


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Land_of_Israel

You sicken me, 'Constantine'.

Here is an interesting article about the new movie dealing with Katyn...it is written by Israel Shamir, a Russian Jew who grew up in Israel, and is now converted to the Russian Orthodox church...he writes some insightful articles about the Palestinian situation, and also about Zionism in general...however, he is a bit hard on Poles...he is very pro-Russian, and claims to still belive in Socialism...anyway, I thought it would be a contribution to the thread...Celinski might be interested:

http://www.israelshamir.net/English/Eng31.htm

Thanks it was very interesting. Shamir and friends are fools that hold a pen. Did you see where there is not one mention of Poland becoming free in 1989. Lets see maybe not being able to speak of the crimes for 60 years under "Communist Poland" had something to do with it.

I think you may be right...by the way, have you seen this film 'Katyn' and if you did, what did you think?

No it's not out in the USA until March, have you? I could have purchased a bootleg but wouldn't feel right. My grandfather told me about it long, long ago. His numbers were way off, I thank God he's RIP and never learned the true numbers. We are still waiting for the day Russia tells of the other graves and the real number is disclosed.

Such a evil person "Stalin" was, I will never understand how anyone knowing the truth could be so cold as to call him, "Great". Thanks again for the artical, Carol


Important update:


Israel Shamir: Wolf in Sheep’s Clothing

Here is the background to my hostility towards Israel Shamir, who also writes under the names of Schmerlin, Robert David, Vassili Krasevsky and Jöran Jermas. I cannot vouch for which of these is the real Israel Shamir:

http://www.socialistviewpoint.org/sept_04/sept_04_22.html

Israel Shamir loves to stir up...****. It is best for all to ignore his writings, whatever they are, for whatever side.

I say 'Stalin the Damned' for surely that's where he is, with 'Ol' Scratch'!

It hurts that Russia never held their people accountable for the Katyn Murders. I wonder, do these old men drink happily and talk about old times, or have their consciences caught up with them?

Unlike how the majority of the Nazis have paid for their crimes, the Katyn murderers have been FREE all this time. I only pray that they have grown a conscience, and pray forgiveness.

I do not hold every German or Russian responsible for the past. Yet you have to understand, I've worked with a German gentleman, who's parents lived in Germany during the Nazi regime. He said his own mother doubted the Holocaust, and felt it was created to punish HER!? We had many, many arguments and fights during lunch; all I can say, is that in the end, God will deal with the Evil people, after they die.

I wish to deal with the Evil People who are STILL alive, and I don't care HOW old, or decrepit they are - they had the privilege of living, after passing judgement.

They are STILL rounding up Nazis after all these years, but Mommy Russia has been protecting her 'boys'! That is what is wrong with this picture; that is what is wrong across the board.

Just because you are ordered to commit genocide, doesn't mean you do it, and have a clean conscience! You should do what is right, and NOT kill, and free them all - you'd then would have had a fighting force to PROTECT YOU!

Many of these men and women felt safe, under the sanctions of the 1864 GENEVA CONVENTION. That is what was violated by BOTH the Nazis and Stalin! Perhaps why it was so hard for the world to believe the nightmare of whole sale extermination that became life for so many.

Now, tell me - how is forgetting the past, going to help us!? We need to stop, pause for thought. LEARNING from the past, accepting the truth (Russian bullets in our family members' heads), and making amends.

We cannot make amends with those who refute the truth - Russia is acting like a child, like a kid caught with their hand in the cookie jar. Perhaps because Communism has collapsed, like it was doomed to.

The rest of us know the truth; we need to make sure this never happens again. It's happening in Kenya right now.

Why we can say all dirty things about Russian openly, but Jewish theme is always untouchable? Do you all love Jewes? Come on dont be so hypocritical !!!! Such hypocricy makes me feel sick even more.

Don't worry I don't forget them, they did forget us. And why do you take this personal, this was Stalin and he gave orders, he also killed you, as victims of this tyrant why not take the stand with the victims vs denying or adding insult to injury by saying it never took place?

Here, here, Celinski - you put it all most succinctly, thank you.

'Constantine' I don't get where you keep putting words such as 'Jews' in my mouth! Did I mention it, along with the Geneva Convention? Or Katyn? NO. You are the one waving the banner, not I. I double and triple checked.

Now - have the conversation just about Katyn and the Polish officers, and the Russians who killed them. I will grant that Stalin ordered the death of Russians, too.

BUT the conversation is about Katyn!

Andrzej Wajda's feature film Katyn about the killing by the Soviet
NKVD police of Polish officers in 1940 has been shown in Moscow amid
fevered scenes to get tickets.

The 1100-seat Cinema House was packed to capacity, with many people
standing along the walls and a crowd of cinema fans unsuccessfully
trying to enter the hall.

The audience included President Putin's advisers for the development
of contacts with the E.U. Sergey Jastrzembsky and for culture Jurij
Laptiev, as well as prominent artists and human rights activists.
http://www.polskieradio.pl/thenews/culture/?id=78355

I'm sure they thought they were seeing quite a hachet job, but it's all true.

Yes and what's that saying "The truth shall set us free." Maybe questions will be asked as to why Poland is stuck with the bill to compensate "Soviet" damage on claims they caused in eastern Poland on the property now outside Poland's boarders?