Should Germany claim to be the victims in Poland?

Don't be childish. You've been talking about this crap for years and yet haven't even started building that. We in similar case would simply do It and wouldn't give a damn what others think. You are one of the biggest pussies in the world and you with all your "strong rethoric" only make yourself look stupid. You won't agree with me but I'm sure that deep inside you know that It's true.



But they aren't allowed to shoot :):)

Paying Poland?

How much worth are territories and deutschrein cities???




Hey! Don't mix me with "falkster"!!! :)

Just as I thought it all comes down to the almighty buck, reguardless of the price.


"Aug. 10, 2006

Berlin exhibition angers Poland

Mr Kaczynski said the exhibition aimed to distort history
Polish PM Jaroslaw Kaczynski has condemned an exhibition documenting the stories of millions of Germans expelled from Eastern Europe after World War II.


Both parties say they will not support claims for compensation by former expellees or their relatives - which would only exacerbate Germany's relations with its eastern neighbours, especially Poland and the Czech Republic. "
Carol



http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/4781369.stm

That's a bit illogical, isn't it?

After centuries of german rules there were millions of Poles living besides Germans. In some territories even the majority...how horribly must prussian rule have been, right?

And after few years of polish rule no Germans can live in the same lands anymore...all ethnic cleansed!
Who is the Monster here?

The facts speak another language...but nooo...it's only always the poor Poles and the oh so bad Germans!

And yes...the Poles in the thirties were alot like the Poles today...aggravating and annoying and provoking their neighbours.
They never could back their arrogance and were humiliated horrible...like today...

you have been already mixed with brave Russian soldiers :)

BTW I dont understand why eastern Germans have such problems and are so rasists ... they should accept their origin and live like other nations ... we are Westren Slavs ... Russians are Eastern Slavs and Eastern germans are original mix (Russian - Polish -German) ... and everything is ok :) I dont know what is wrong with them maybe thy need some acceptation form their western brothers (who dont seam to accept them as true Germans ) BB live your life now we are Europeans :) even your PM Merkel (from eastern Germany) is 25% Polish (her Grandfather was Pole form Poznan)

Aren't you abit obsessed with the blood thingy???

Makes you sound like a Nazi....

Isn't it important where your loyalty lays?
I know of millions of Germans with polish roots (those ...*ski's you know) who
were and are loyal Prussians/Germans...who fighted for Germany...who play
football for Germany...:)

And I thought you were going to say dead.

Not to mention the display is "aggravating and annoying and provoking their neighbours"

but it is noticable that eastern Germans are different form Poles and from western Germans ... I have hearded how western Germans call their brothers form east ... for me it is really strange that eastern Germans are so nationalistic ... more than Western.

I think that in your case starting discussion and using terms like nation heritage etc. is trap

Are you sure ? She shouldn't be so ugly then.

Yes...they were spared the west-german lefty "internationalist" brainwashing (falkster is with guarantee a Westerner)...but the Ossies have already taken over...our chancellorMrs. Merkel is an Ossi! :):):)



You know...during the third Reich the police was that everybody knew where their roots where...for many it was a matter of life and death.
So even today most Germans have a good idea (and the evidence) about where they come from, if they mixed with Poles, or Jews...or if they were "arisch".
To make career in the military and for other jobs you had to prove your heritage centuries back so yes,
I KNOW my heritage...I think better than you do...:)

You know that inbreeding is not good, don't you? :)

:)

It's not me bringing the "blood" thingy up here again and again....

Eastern Germans more nationalistic than Poles and Western Germans ... and disrespected by both ... (because of their point of view)

I think there is kind of mix of complexes ... they feel worst than Western and better than Poles ... interesting



not only during 3rd reich ... whole XIX century ... yes yes we remember ...

We are talking people right... I am sorry but to one in the USA where all are equal, you sound as if you feel this makes you superior. Carol

More nationalistic than Western Germans? You bet!

More nationalistic than Poles???? Is there such a thing??? :)



What did you learn in history?
It was policy at that time...everybody had to research their ancestors and heritage...

Very much so. I think Poland had to account for the ones that had their lives cut short and the ones scattered across the nation, and the ones raped. Guess the Xrays were not all that helpful.

Why do you come into PF and say the things you do, don't you have an display to run?


Carol

sure...

or if you said somewhere earlier...

"you wish!" ;-)

A Display???

I came back just to correct some things this falkster said....I couldn't stand it any longer...this guy is so wrong on so many counts it wasn't funny anymore.

PS: I know you prefer to stay with yourself and like minded and yes sayers...no opposition wanted...but....here I am! :)




Do we have an Ossi-chancellor or not?
Does Mrs. Merkel have a 70 percent approving rate or not?
Will the center be build or not?

Hehe! :)

The next time you sprout one of those opinions of yours please support them with something...stats, images, surveys, articles...ANYTHING! Would you....

Oh...and just for you falkster to drive home the point:

"SPD und Union einigen sich auf Vertriebenen-Zentrum"

http://www.spiegel.de/politik/deutschland/0,1518,513139,00.html

"...Der Erinnerungsort an die Vertreibungen soll demnach eine historische Ausstellung, Seminarräume, ein "künstlerisches Element des Gedenkens" sowie eine Ausstellungsfläche von mehr als 18.000 Quadratmetern umfassen. Das Dokumentationszentrum könnte im Deutschen Haus am Anhalter Bahnhof untergebracht werden...."

I have heard that majority of Eastern Germans would like to re-build Berlin Wall :)))

LOL

Even if so...what does that have to do with the center for Expellees??? :):):)

But I doubt that...just watch our sports teams...so many Ossis going for medals and awards....and the whole of Germany is loving them and praising them...waving the german flag!

:)

you dont like your West brothers ? or they dont like you ?



and they call you as they call ... ;-) we know everything

There are lot's of upstanding Westerners too...especially the last Football World Championship was a revelation.
We all partied together, happy and proud to be Germans...rooting for our Wessi/Ossi Team (Michael Ballack, our team captain for example is an Ossi too)...I didn't thought the Wessis had it in them.
It was great!

:):):)

We will repeat that in Austria/Swiss next year, no doubt!

Remember the football games against Poland?
Or the handball finale against Poland?
One happy, proud country!
(Lot's of Ossis in both teams!)

Rebuilding of the wall and weakening our chances??? Nah....

(There is nothing like a game against Poland to gather the country together behind our flag...LOL )

on last tournament we eleminated you in semifinal (in Germany)


as to you ... I think that you are trying sth to prove ... but the fact is that ... you want to rebuild Berln Wall (I have heard both sides would like to do it) ... you dream about 3rd reich ... social benefits ... changing history ... ehhhh .... weakness ...

as to the future I hope that brainful people like the_falkster will be in majority and we will have freindly realtionship ...

Yeah...ummm.....:(



I think you will be dissappointed Lukazs...the time of the "falksters" is going to end.
They were successfull denying such a memorial for decades but no longer.
The re-unification and the addition of Millions of not brainwashed but nationalistic Germans changed the country in more ways than you can imagine! :)
(And yes, they....these "falksters"... HATE the Ossis because of that...destroying their little, quiet Bonner Republic!)

Germany is reasserting itself in Europe and the world....the post-war age is over!
The cards are mixed anew....:)

Yes, this is what we do. When you try to do this today if your family was in eastern Poland in 1940, good luck. Our heritage was destroyed. Churches burned, houses burned, family killed and then whats left exiled to another part of the world. Communism made us unable to search let alone seek our lost family.

Made our research a joke. Even today if you find the grave you lucked out, as most were not afforded so much as a box for the body. Our markers are non existant due to a pile of naked bodies being lit on fire didn't need one. I can tell you 100% Polish Eddie's 3 1/2 year old body was left in Siberia. My grandmother and two aunts made it to So. Africa. Is that how you look into your heritage? Do you understand where you ended up if you were 100% Polish?

And now Germany wants to be the victims, sorry if I seem insensitive. I wish all that happened to my family were they had to move over to a new boarder. No, we got to go to USA, start a new life from nothing, all this and learn to speak English. For our loved ones that got to stay in communism.....

38ee1.jpg

I understand where you are coming from and your opinion.
But the point in this discussion here is that NOBODY would ever deny you the memory, the remembrance to your fate, to your history.
It is openly acknowledged, Germans apologized (did the Russians?), you have many memorials, movies, days for commemorating etc.

Nobody is denying your suffering or want to talk it down or fights against a tiny center against the forgetting of this fate of your people....

This thread seems to have developed in to a Poland versus Germany argument , and the thread has got a bit lost.... Being English maybe i can make a comment that isn,t anti German or anti Polish.....This exibition in Germany is just about the German civilians who were forced out of their homes , often killed if they took too long packing their stuff , and who suffered terrible treatment...As far as i can tell nobody is trying to deny that the Germans caused untold suffering to people of many nations , or that Germany started the war in the first place.....I own a farm in the part of Poland that was German land before 1945 , and i am very aware that this farm was once the home of a German family....Maybe they were devout Nazis , who fully supported Hitler , but maybe they were just peasant farmers just doing what farmers do...Either way , in the eary hours of the morning some Polish and Russian soldiers turned up , along with a Polish family that was to be given their home , and they were given only minutes to get what they could and be on their way....Its been difficult to find out exactly what happened , but i know the family was never heard of again...I supect they are burried somewhere on my land....As i said , no one wants to deny that People of all nationalities suffered in the war , but i don,t see why there is such hysteria because someone wants to tell a story about German people that suffered....I accept that if you support someone who starts a war and then loses it you can,t expect too much sympathy , but i think that there is no reason why the story can,t be told.... The German people were victims of Hitlers lunacy too.....

Ok now we can back to this center issue ....

The fact is that former nazi organizations participate in this project (30% of members are former SS soldiers or NSDAP members) , face of this project will be Steinbach maybe she isnt important, but all in all history of her family shows what kind of expeled she is ( she came to Poland togehther with German armies in 39 and was expeled in 45 )

BB is supporter of NPD (about 30% of support in some parts of East Germany) big chnces to get into parlament in next elections.




Merkel wats to be reelected and cant ignore such big electorate and have started to flirt with them and have made some commisions ... What is more Germans dont want to be puppet and want to be player (noticable) I think that boys like BB are still margin but are stronger and their opinion is taken serious

You are very right, I am waiting for Russia and Ukraine to take responsability and seek resolve. Until this takes place healing cannot take place. How do you trust that change has taken place without this taking place. This is another topic and believe me I get enough backlash for bringing up the past in my other questions.

Back to this question, Is Poland represented and if it is, by whom. If we cannot stop this from happening then maybe we need a "great big" display on the Polish people, all Polish not just Jewish.

Carol

But Tusk (our PM ) propsal is ok ... he dont want former nazist to participate in this project ... his proposal is to cooperate in this issue because he agreed that sth should be done ... but maybe not in Berlin and maybe not by former SS soldiers ...