Should Poland continue to support Bush's war on terror?

Do you have one, lol?
I didn't want to hurt your feelings man, I know you don't.

BTW freebird, thats an incitement to Murder,whats the jailtime like for that in NYC,?
Freebird,lets face it ,your a knob jockey, the sort of Gobshite that defines Gobby Yanks the world over,the very reason why most desent Americans claim to be Canucks when they travel in Europe,because muppets like you and your type just really dont endear themselves to anyone,period.
Your full of hot air and bluff and blusterand are actually one of the funniest things on the internet at the minute,infact,your such a negative stereotype of a dumb yankee that Im begining to susspect your probably actually a Red Chinese agent attempting to subvert the good name of Uncle sam .....

Now you're getting too stupid man. No more fun talking to you. Nite nite little idiot.

Sorry,just thought Id point out you broke NY State Law, Incitement to murder via electronic means........I knew those years as a Jerry Orbach fan would pay off ......

Thats, Night,Night, ya big jessy.

I know you're not there and i know you have jack and sh!t to do with the military efforts going on in the world past and present(it's really really obvious) . give up the game, you're an armchair soldier and a wanna be victim that makes big sacirifices like paying a lot for gas.

Don't dishonour the vets. Don't dishonour the fallen.


Screw me? struck a chord have i? anger is the first stage on the road to acceptance, enjoy your journey and i wish you well.

I hope when US soldiers build accomodation for Iraqis,they make for them jacuzzi as well,cause pool is not easy to be enjoyed in the winter.

war? what is it good for? (not lennon nor tolstoy) LOL

Oh no I may just go cry....Not

Stop that fighting, Christamas isn't a time for fighting, Christmas is a time for baking cookies.

New release on Australian leader

http://cnnwire.blogs.cnn.com/2007/12/22/australian-leader-we-will-be-i n-afghanistan-for-the-long-haul/

Number one issue in America is Iraq war. This is what the top runners have said.

http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2008/issues/issues.iraq.html

Carol

Carol

Iraq war or Iraq occupation?Celinski would you like Poland occupation to be number one issue in nazi Germany?

Do you read or just look at pictures? This artical shows what the candidates running for Presidency feel should be done and what they have done in the past. Now if you are done with your non stop bull shit attacks on me could you please try to educate yourself vs. spending ever one of your posts putting someone down.

To answer your comment, yes if they were occupied by Germany I would love to have the world involved and following every last move.

Carol

sweet baby jesus is choking on the irony of that one!

You make the issues personal,so you will endure personal attacks.You do not examine them from a distance but from high level of engagement.Since you add your person inside,the person will suffer.

oh I just feel the love in this thread.. :D

yeah same place you got your info.. guess we all will never know the real truth
because anything we know is media fed...

apparently were all fighting over something that none of us have any control over
personally.. Peace all.

The conflict is deeper than you think.

ding, ding, ding! attention please, southern has just given the gift of the "correct" to this forum a full 2 days before christmas!

well it sounds like the person inside is suffering from a female having solid points..
so you jump in a conversation that involves two other people and its two men
against one woman, thats so gentleman like , especially coming from you southern
the man with the gentle touch towards women.. its hard to believe its so deep
of a conflict that you cant let this one go... and of course if carol does put her heart
into things like most of our gender does because thats what seperates us from you
brutally disgusting and mean persona ... Carol, be who you are and thats all thats
required,, you dont have to explain to anyone what your here for and why...

Bummer I am human.



It is better to have loved and lost than to have never loved at all. Ding Ding Dong.



Thank you it means alot, Carol

well. its true.. your here for your reasons as they are,, and some of these guys
( some) get so into the political scene they forget how to present themselfs when
speaking to people.. and dont fully understand others quest because its their own
blindness that keeps them on top of the world..so they think, but its their own
personal world.. ( just humor them) they like that :)))

hows the searches coming along BTW?

Well today I took time to shop and came home to my online group going crazy, I had a few Polish men fighting. lol They are older and hopefully they will just stay away from each other. I must have had 60 emails from them.

I have a phone number in Poland and wanted to call before Christmas. Just need to get up the courage. Thanks for asking. Carol

and being a woman entitles her to voice opinions with little or no objective thought nor any intellectual merit beyond rhetoric? Fair enough. But her being a woman comes with the added stipulation that we play with little kid gloves or worse yet acknowledge her points as something more than what they are?

Good lord woman, chivalry is a concept that applies when the damsel in distress is of a noble cause, not when she is the very source of distress.



*Steps up on soapbox*
Blindness? Your point should be invisible, it's so full of the stuff. You rally against those who oppose armed conflict. You do realise that right? If you just write without giving due thought to what you're writing then i suppose it's silly to articulate this to you.

But her position is that of an avid colliseum goer of yesteryear. Feigning sorrow at the carnage with eyes wide open, unblinking, returning to the trough again and again all the while expressing dismay at what has become of the fallen or worse yet drawing false conclusions as to why it must continue "regrettably."

*Transitions from soapbox to pulpit*

I cannot hide my disgust from that nor do i choose to tame my response to your contribution. Support a sister right? Yeah. Gotta rally against them fellas right? Yeah. Morally and ethically sound? Eh, well, whatever.

It is that knee-jerk thought reaction, you've given us a sample of, which allows politicians to play individuals and thus masses. It is that knee-jerk reaction which supports policies more conniving than anything else which leads to voter manipulation. And then people all scratch their heads years later and wonder why things are the way they are.

Might does not make right. Why do you rally to someone who obviously subscribes to this childlike reasoning? Please ask yourself that question.

Should your response be anything but dismissive or vile then i'm all eyes and ears.


What a craptastic response. Neither funny nor poignant, neither witty nor clever, neither relevent nor pointed. The last three words would make a wonderful epitaph of your contribution to this discussion however.

*steps out of the pulpit and away from the soapbox*

The un-answered questions from 9/11 commission report.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=9124194186333362123

The controlled demolition of The WTC

http://www.garlicandgrass.org/issue6/Dave_Heller.cfm

The person inside is suffering because the other person puts his person inside her arguments.So any attempt to oppose the arguments leads to opposition to the person and any attempt to destroy the arguments leads to destruction of the person.For me this is unacceptable personal interference which allows emotional arguments taking place.As this is accepted,somebody has the right to get into the same kind of emotional arguments without respecting any possible limits.So in case we do not accept any terms,let's see the results.



More results.

Thank you sothern. This is the truth and reallity of Iraq Not the pictures of soldiers stroking dogs or handing out sweets.

The very notion of a WAR being gentler, prettier and softer than a Ballet performance is ridiculous and almost laughable as shown in that clip that someone posted. If all "wars" were like that, they wouldn't be called wars.

U.S. MILITARY DEATHS (IRAQ): 3897
U.S. MILITARY WOUNDED (IRAQ): 28711
IRAQI CIVILIAN DEATHS (MIN): 71259
'EXCESS' IRAQI DEATHS: 655000

Printable Representations: U.S. Deaths, U.S. Wounded, 'Excess' Iraqi Deaths


So how were all these Americans and Iraqis killed and wounded by a ballet show? War is ugly VERY UGLY.

Why didn't Bush fight in the Vietnam war? Why aren't his daughters serving in the military or his nephews or any of his relatives fighting this war. For that matter any children of the politicians who supported this war. They are not fighting this war they are sending OUR children, brothers, sisters, cousins to fight this war.

Hi folks....another long winded ramble warning here, but I've been away....

Been gone a few days...but I did read your links, and none of them say they used Napalm on Fallujah, although it was used in other areas. WP was used, and not as you seem convinced, to burn people's skins off, but in the air to illuminate target areas for night fighting. WP may be effective in industrial areas, to destroy steel frameworks, bridges, etc, but is not something one typically uses against enemy forces he needs to kill right now
Also...your implication that white phosphorus or even NAPALM are "Chemical Weapons" simply demonstrates a lack of understanding. A chemical weapon uses agents that react chemically to injure or kill its target. Napalm, White phosphorus, etc. are not among these, but rather are "incendiaries" and are simply means to start fires.
So...to break this down, the original justification has not been found to be "lies". Where did you hear this? The administration just claimed it has found nothing (I doubt this by the way) not that there was nothing there. There is a huge difference, so please, stop insulting everyone over there or who has been there by this false but common misconception. Saddam felt he had something, his neighbors did also, the Clinton administration as well as the current one thought he had a program, as did many in Europe...but somehow now you are implying that this is "Bush's lie"? For someone people imply has trouble tying his own shoes, those same people sure seem to give him credit for fooling the entire planet, even as far back as when he was only a state governor... Question-if there was a nuclear warhead in your neighbors basement, would you know? of course not. Without specific nuclear training, would you recognize one? Not likely. Now imagine your neighbor didn't want you to find it. Are you a liar for calling the police, if they cannot find it? Are they liars if they say, "sorry but we've not found anything yet"? No. So please, reconsider your statements WRT this.

I feel the "torture" from the photos at Abu Ghraib was disgraceful, but I could just as easily film a stabbing in the UK...or closer to what happened in Abu Ghraib, a fraternity initiation...(no one was *injured* only humiliated, unless I'm mistaken, right) and say the UK supports torture and murder. The offenders at Abu Ghraib were arrested and tried and are serving prison time, but that doesn't matter to you, does it. Never mind that for almost a year it was all one could see on the networks, who are politically motivated anyway.

Mark77s are not chemical weapons. I do not feel you would intentionally spread this if you knew, but, this is not true. They are fire starting ("incendiary") or in the case of WP perhaps "Illumination" rounds. If you choose to stay in the fire, you will burn.

Finally, your statement about thousands and thousands of civilian dead....needs to be quantified, that just because there are 100,000s dead civilians does *NOT* mean Americans or Polish or British troops killed a single ONE of them. The opposing religious and political sects are also trying to take advantage of each other, and the beloved "insurgents" have been killing more Iraqis than they have Americans...some have died at our hands, and that is something the people doing so never generally intended and will probably carry the burden to their graves....but these huge numbers does NOT mean any of it was intentionally done by US. There is a difference. Also, if Joe Civilian picks up an RPG to shoot at a helicopter, and his buddies surround him as a "human shield" do you fault the gunner on the helicopter for shooting this man? his buddies? to protect the helicopter and everyone on board? Since these are not "Iraqi army" they are still listed as "civilians" even though they are combatants. There is no way to tell when the enemy does not answer to a force that reports anything to the red cross, etc. In fact, most of the numbers you see are "guestimates" at best, based on some reporter or other asking people in a graveyard, then multiplying by some formula...in fact they probably have no idea.
While I think your statement is purely meant to be inflammatory, soldiers are just like other young people and listen to the same music; if a soldier feels a little better listening to "Bloodhound Gang" CDs, good for him. It wasn't too long ago one could hear the same song played in nightclubs all over. Nice try with that however...not too many uplifting church songs are popular with young people these days...

I've not heard of this, do you have some links for us? I'd like to read them. I've heard about Saddam quelling "unrest" with his nerve agent, but not the Turks as of yet. There is a lot of evil in the world, and not all of it is centered in Washington, or even in the countries the US is in conflict with.

Ummm....only if you are too lazy to move away from the fire or drop and roll....this was the initial horror of the original stuff-it sucked the air away so to speak, and the victims were unable to leave. The "new" stuff stays longer so it still destroys structures, but people not instantly incapacitated-can get away.

Hi again LATINA-you seem like a nice person, I just do not buy much of this person's story, first he's not a "hero". He stated at the beginning he joined essentially for the benefits, and that his recruiter "promised" him he would never go anywhere. These people are at best ignorant (who joins an ARMY and thinks they will never go anywhere) and at worst, a parasite, only joining because he was too young to become a burden on the public welfare system. His statements thusly motivated are questionable at best, but will probably make him a mint selling his "story"...

Thank you and well said.

Crow, while I may disagree with many of your points on this thread, I will say that you have a very valid argument. Many in the (unfortunately disconnected) US media thought Clinton lost the election because of upset over a dress and scandal, but there was a HUGE ground swell against him based on what he did in Serbia as well as giving China a crippling advantage (he essentially gave them the entire US patent database as well as access to all future patent applications-ICBM guidance, anyone?). Many in the US military who could, resigned or simply got out over the Balkans campaign that for some reason the (very pro-democrat party) media never gave much air time to. When US commanders did not wish to partake in this (apparently there was an uproar) President Clinton then assigned control of (some) US forces to the UN, who were all too happy to do so. Many American servicemen knew this was dirty, and none feel this was right. The media here, of course, made movies about mass graves, etc. and don't get me started about "Madeleine Albright". The woman has no clue, what business she had a secretary of state, I don't know, but Clinton appointed who he pleased..This is a whole new discussion, but suffice to say that there are many of us who know the stories about Serb villages protecting downed US airmen from the Germans, even when the Germans started shooting the townsmen for not talking. Such are TRUE friends. I bear no ill will toward Serbs, I could go on a huge tangent here. It would seem Serbs were a victim of the same corrupt media that is currently working its ways against me and my friends in the US Armed forces and also the Bush administration. They *think* they are only injuring the Republican party, so their cronies can retake the white house, but in fact they are destroying the whole nation. Despicable at best and at worst, treason IMHO.
This goes to show there are two sides to every story...it has nothing to do with the current administration, but I suspect, that since in those days there was an ICBM arms race, Soviet "boomers" were within a mile of the US coast and vice versa, "Bear" bombers were testing the edges of US and British airspace...perhaps it had more to do with keeping the Soviets busier in Afghanistan and perhaps slowing their spread of influence toward the middle east (and much as we hate to admit it, the world's fuel supply)...and whether you believe the Soviet army was "invited" there....

Now now, this is getting nasty...but FWIW while I was only in Europe a short time, I had no problems once people realize I'm not the monster or arrogant self-important person they seem to have been led to believe most Americans are...honestly, I had a wonderful time and typically find if I am nice to people they are nice back. It doesn't matter that I'm American. Perhaps I've just been lucky; from some of the statements on here it would seem many hate Americans just because we are born here, not based on any true personal experience...

Hi again....I think the issue isn't against people who oppose armed conflict, but the fact that those who are "opposing" it are a little too happy with the rape/murder/civilians/etc ungrounded accusations. These are insults and accusations, which are quite different than simple opposition to violence... Simply opposing war in general is a noble cause...so is standing for justice, or protecting one's people...there are some very valid points in this thread, and there are also some based on misconceptions propagated unfortunately in large part by our own (US) media.

IF you want me to protect any of the candidates from the last election as bastions of virtue, I cannot and will not. There haven't been many true leaders or even elected representatives who do what they were elected to do....in some time. As for why he did or didn't fight doesn't matter. Americans are not *required* to join the military. Even during Vietnam it was a gamble-compulsory only if one was drafted. There are in fact politicians who have fought in this war as well as some whose children/relatives are there, but that is a popular misconception...
And finally, while they may have sent us...we volunteered. And within 2 months of service there, many of us lost respect for ALL of the major networks. The truth is NOT out there. When good news is happening, the networks do not report it, only the bad. There are more electrical wires up in Iraq now than ever before (its even making things difficult in places for helicopters etc) but that never makes the news...but let one single person be killed either by accident, or some sensational way....and 300 news cameras are there broadcasting about their "unwinnable" war and "atrocities" etc etc. like vultures...
anyway...sorry for the novel, I'm not connected on a regular basis these days.
I'm enjoying the discussion!
Merry Christmas to everyone and if I've offended anyone (other than simple disagreement!) it was unintended, the best to all!
John

where prey-tell did I do this or say this??? show me as I really cannot stand over
zealous men who think they have to pull out shovels and dig into shit.

we have our opinions which cannot be right nor wrong, if we so choose to speak
thats our right as a human, so spew all the crap you want.. its only making you
look bad... especially when you are out for blood..

you have no idea what your talking about, and I think your imagination has gone
loco..

my husband has a friend who does this..we cant have a conversation, because he
becomes so angered by someone elses opinions and you appear to me to be just
like him, do you hit women?? because its apparent you have no respect for them.

and yes I was siding with carol on this, not the issue at hand but the actual
facts that you were belittleing her and that is just disgusting. does it make you
feel inferior to make someone feel so bad.. what a freak you are.

and southern, I was only trying to change the air a little, but you had to
have to last word.. there was alot of anger going on and yes its ok to debate with
someone, but things were getting out of hand.. thats all my intentions were..

and that's the rub, u.s. forces go there looking after u.s. interests and it's "own" people insofar as they are given the bang stick to take care of the unpeople who need civilizing. Yet I fear that zealous support of the soldiers alleviates the pressure on leaders to make the call to bring them home. Where's the justice in that?

Aside from that, one only has to look at the law of universality in regards to this mess, and many other activities initiated worldwide on behalf of the u.s. nation. What makes the policies of a nation so governed by corruption and greed, so like many others, only with a greater economy and military, so noble and unassailable?

This Justice you speak of is dolled out on a oneway street and one way street only, unless you're joking the irony is in bold view for all to see.

You're arguements are semantically superior and seem to hold grains of truth but they seem to be based on flimsiest of grounds. If you can clarify then i'll eat crow (not the screename) but as it looks right now, your house of cards is ready to topple.




Wow! Project much? Disagreeing with your nonsense and articulating exactly why is the result of giving your points some thought. You apparantly would like all male respondants, who disagree with you or any femal forum member, to play with kid gloves. You have a vagina, congratulations, get over it.



This seems more like you trying to hide contempt for any male who can present a strong arguement in the face of relentless ignorance on a given subject but hey, maybe i'm projecting now.
Well I am a freak but not for the reasons you've dreamt up. No i was attacking her insistnce on playing grown up yet throwing tantrums when her arguement is revealed for being weak and repetitive; just as is the case here. Notice where the insults towards a person stem from in these debates, you're leading the tally sheet lady.

If you suffer from emotional outbursts in the face of deserved criticism then it's to your detriment and that's how you operate, but it doesn't mean i must as well, and i will call you out on it. I have agreed with you on other threads quite willingly, yet when i feel you or another has failed to make a strong point you get called on it.

*edited in response to johnp*