Should Poland continue to support Bush's war on terror?

Turkey is in Iraq.

If the war against Iraq took place in order that your grandmother gets cheap oil,then why does she have to pay much higher prices for oil now,three years after the war?

I don't find such eventuality to be a good reason to stay in Iraq. Better don't disturb Muslims in their territory with our presence. Better to be at home when neocons would really turn against Iran. We have no issues with Iran.

If you read my post again you'll see I was pointing this out!

A question for anyone from NY

I think 9/11 was a set up in order to start the "war on Terror". What do you think coming from NY?

I agree completely.

Actually....
While I see your point, and it is a factor IMHO....
But not quite the way you think. Most of the difficulty with the middle east v. western nations is IMHO due to a neo-fundamentalism arising in the middle east; schools teaching children from a very early age that the US(or UK or Poland or.....pick non-Muslim nation of your choice) simply existing is somehow an affront to Islam...imagine if English school children were being raised as in medieval times, that the mere existence of those who were not Christians (e.g. CATHOLIC) was an affront to the Almighty himself...next thing you know the Pope has everyone clamoring in a crusade to clear the Holy Land of the Infidel Muslims.....wait a minute....that already happened. What is apparently happening now, is a repeat of the crusades, only in a reverse direction. Israel and the Jews are an easy target, and then come all the other materialistic non-Muslim western nations like USA, UK, Poland, etc. etc.... and many are spooled to a fanatical white-hot rage against the US, or any other non-believing nation. Rational people do not perform as suicide bombers against civilians. Even during WWII, the Japanese kamikaze pilots only hit military targets....
Now-imagine these misguided, indoctrinated people, with their white-hot rage, fueled into a frenzy by neo-fundamentalist (read:it's ok to behead unbelievers) Imams-get a go-ahead from someone important-say, an Ayatollah (I'm not Muslim, but I understand that he would be a close equivalent to the Pope for some) to attack who they already perceive as representing an enemy of Islam?
Exactly.
It has nothing to do IMHO with our foreign policy, at least in this case. That does sometimes come to bite us (and any nation) but I simply do not believe this is the case here.
Do I think that we are paying in ways for mistakes in the past? absolutely-thanks to mistakes made during the Carter administration, the Panama canal (built by Americans, btw) now for all intents and purposes belongs to China; Iran has been a mess since the same administration, lack of action by the Clinton administration on multiple occasions cost America when the administration did not take OBL when he was offered on a silver platter, and at any rate, lack of action by Clinton administration in Somalia (e.g. pulling troops out when things got rough) cemented in OBL's mind, at least, the idea that America was a paper tiger, an easy target, if you will, that would not strike back with any respectable amount of force. During the Clinton administration, he was also absolutely right. Many keep pointing to "coups" that America supposedly starts, but never seems to back them up, at least with regard to the Middle East. Might find some dirt, if you looked at Cuba and perhaps South America...but the distasteful, although economical (compared to a war) policy of assassination has been against policy in the U.S. since 1979. Thanks again, Mr. Carter....Saddam and his two psychotic sons were FAR more valuable to the world than 3,000 American young people and another large group of Iraqis...and thanks, Mr. Bush Sr. for not giving the Iraqi people the support you promised, when they revolted after 1991-and then the day it happened you allowed Saddam's helicopters to gun them down like cattle...because, why, that would look to the world like a COUP!...can't let the world think America supports THAT, now, can we? (and we wonder why Iraqis were hesitant to trust us the second time around...and were so receptive to tall-tales from Iranian and other infiltrators at first)
Sorry. Got a little spooled OT there...
Our culture respects the "turn the other cheek" ideal, of a nation being magnanimous, gentle, friendly and forgiving. Their culture does not see this the same. Rather, it is seen as weakness and an affront to creation.

Yes, our foreign policy does create problems for us in the future (especially since our government changes its personality every few years) but I do not believe, at least in this case, it is the source of hatred borne by many in the region toward the west.
After all, what did SPAIN do to them, in recent history? I do not support the idea that a people has the right to attack another people based on perceived wrongs from 800 years ago. Unfortunately, many of the fanatical fundamentalists do support this line of thinking. Imagine if the people who bombed abortion clinics-were the main stream, and such ideology was being taught in schools, with the nod from the (theocratic) government.... Such is exactly what is happening over there.
At least this is the way things seem to me.

You genius better realize that now produced versions of F-16 have not much in common with A/B from late70s/early 80s.

It like saying VW Golf V is sh*t because Golf I was designed long time ago.

Golf I's were excellent, particularly the GTI version..

 


American Polish British Soldiers in Iraq Irak

I guess we all should pray for every last ones safe return home. In Iraq they are like family, maybe we can be also. Carol

I prey their mashine guns are full of bullets when they defend the motherland of Iraq.

funny how fanatic fundamentalism seems particularly strong in poorer countries with a poorly educated population. Funny how American interests are always held above the rights of other nations and people to develope with regard to themselves first and foremost in these endless debates.

Why some respondants on this thread are trying to put the blame on the poor and uneducated for being so is really a testament to western ignorance/arrogance.

It seems to me, retrospectively speaking, the idea was to, incrimentally and by slight of hand, break the country so miserably that no western observer would ever consider the people and "country" more than a backward nation needing constant intervention.

Every one prays for "their" soldiers, but remember that germans did the same during ww2.

It would be nice if other countries all had to help. Lets see who calls for help next. Good old USA, Britian and Poland will be there and be forgiven for freeing Iraq. Lets see how Iraq looks in three or four years. With the amount of money that went into Iraq, they should have the best of everything.




Poorer my but*. It is more the way the money is divied up. Last time I used the bathroom my tolit seat is not solid gold.
Carol

The problem is that you think that such military intervention is helpful. You have good intentions, hearth blinds you. This is not how politicians think, no matter from which country. Typical politician is cynical as*hole a liar without hearth and consistence. Usually when they say something they think something else, absolutely dishonest bastards that cannot be trusted at all. They will NEVER help anybody if they have no particular interest to do so. Voter who trust politicians is doomed.

The US went their against our will, and now they'd like some help ??...



If things continue there, there will be no people there in three or four years...How many people have to die before they (the few remaining ones) get some money ?

:)

Please lol Michael Moore tells parts of stories not the full truth. Carol

LOL

The war costs the USA $720 Million dollars a day.
URL
After doing a deal with the Mhadi Army ( Insurgents ) the cost in troop fatalities is averaging out at just over one a day.
URL


No, most of the money is going to Rumsfileds chums in Halliburton et al.
As an aside -
New Orleans - two years later and only 66% of the pre Katrina population could return ( as of August 2007). They'd be glad to have anything.
This to me is an example of the administrations priorities.

And as these parts are all the lies of the Bush gov...We can guess what are the other parts ;)

- Why specifically would it look so that for me Poland is part of the Uklad Warszawski?

There are foreigners who think exactly like myself. Does it mean for them Poland, or perhaps even their own countries, are part of the UW? :)



- On what specific grounds would you call me a 'communist'? Because I oppose our participation in the US fascist aggression against Iraq (and against other countries)?

The majority of Poles think as I do. Does it folow you regard them as commies and hate them?

Furthermore, huge numbers of non-Poles throughout the world are against US fascist aggression in Iraq and elsewhere. Does it follow you consider them commies and hate 'em?

So you back American aggression and atrocities in Iraq and elsewhere...?



- How many % don't you disagree with Bush, I fancy? From your post seems no more than some o.oo1 %? Correct?





- Wow, such a 'peacemaker' and yet hating so much.
:)

Now is not the time to look at %. I was opposed from day one but it didn't stop what took place. We are here today and cannot change the past. What I feel is we have to find a way to withdraw and hopefully it will not be in vain.

Saddam was a dictator that was capable of killing his own. I am glad his power is gone. It may be a brighter future for Iraq, I am sure if you were one of the families that he discarded you might see this in a differant light.

I wish the USA would have helped Poland in eastern Poland 1940. Instead they listened to Stalin. We may have seemed like such an insignificant group (like Iraq people) but look at the end result. Believe me I wouldn't have cared if they helped due to oil. It may have saved my family and my country. Only history will tell.

If and when Poland pulls out I am sure it will be for the right reasons.

Carol

(Sorry in advance friends, for the diatribe here but apparently there are a few topics that set me off....and I ramble...)
Of all the people here who seem to know what is happening in Iraq, screaming of atrocities and hoping Iraqi machine guns are full of bullets....how many have been there, talked with Iraqis? Didn't think so. Believe whichever network drivel you prefer, I cannot convince you, only time will show. Just a hint. Who do you think is doing many of the raids to get the bad guys ("civilians" I'm sure some would call them, who are armed to the teeth with automatic weapons, and routinely behead or shoot town leaders who "disagree" with their particular way of doing things...) that's right. Iraqis. Iraq's new army is still small, but it has heart, and it is professional. Good things are in Iraq's future, I believe.
And for those making vague accusations of American "atrocities" in Iraq-be specific. And remember, when accusing an entire nation of committing atrocities, you cannot come up with some vague instance of some "friend" who "knew a guy" who "heard" some Marine or Soldier (or Sailor, like myself) got a little trigger happy or that "so and so" was tried for murder for something they supposedly did in Iraq. The armed forces have people who commit crimes, also, or there wouldn't be a JAG, wouldn't be the "UCMJ" (essentially the law for U.S. armed forces) or for that matter, MP's, Brig's, and military prisons. To accuse someone of supporting "American Atrocities" you first have to establish your implied statement that America-supports committing atrocities.
What you are doing is accusing America as a nation-of doing and supporting atrocities.
Last I checked, out of perhaps some ridiculously high number of people who are serving or who have served in Iraq-(millions now?)there have been, what, TEN? FIFTEEN? tried for overstepping their bounds? Hardly a policy of atrocity. Your words of hate betray you for who you are.
btw,
The folks in Katrina who could not go back? Sorry but here in America, the government does not buy one a house. It is a shame, and people do lose everything sometimes, but no action of the U.S. government caused these people to lose their homes, and an act of nature, the Almighty or whoever you choose-rendered much of the area simply not feasible (or smart) to rebuild on. By the way....while the war does cost a large amount of money...it is apparently still only a small fraction of the US budget which gets wasted on Who knows what-but considering the size of the bureaucracy-at least one can be pretty sure at least it is being wasted on something....

Finally! while I disagree with you on a huge majority of your points, this last part is something I totally agree with you on...
What seems best for me is to watch a politician, and assume he will do whatever suits himself the best, then take everything he says with a grain of salt. As we say in America, read between the lines. I support the President on the war in Iraq, I also believe thanks to first hand knowledge, it is going much better than many here believe (i.e. it's been getting quieter every day over there). That does not mean I trust him. He is a globalist, and would sell out America in a heartbeat to become some bastardized version of the EU with Canada and Mexico-and US sovereignty means little to him-or if it does it hasn't seemed to sink in. I believe Pres. Putin is skillfully positioning Russia to again become much like its former Soviet self, and there is no accident in who Russia befriends, and who she belittles. Russia puts her arm around her neighbors back as a friend, but I fear, in reality is only looking for a good place to stick a knife.
Personal opinion only.

What? Help set up a dictator in power and profit from arms sales to said dictator, while turning a blind eye to said dictator's ruthless rule? Is that what you mean other countries should all have to help in? Or maybe it's the embargo that was placed on the people under the rule of said dictator, which killed untold numbers and further crippled the country?



Iraqis called out for help from your government? Surely you're joking and would like to withdraw such a comment?



Well others have responded much better than I could have, perhaps you'd like to withdraw that statement too.




so you have running water?

get it?



Nonesense my good man! Pure and simple nonesensical reasoning (oh the irony)!

Simply because ten are tried does not exclude that others have gone "unnoticed" for the same acts or worse.

Why suggest that a country which supports an aggresive occupation, and prior to that an aggressive embargo, the effects of which killed innumerable iraqi souls, has for some reason ensured that its military wing (the ones doing the dirty work) is policing itself with any better methods than they are "policing" the country they are occupying? News flash: the military is a haven for the uneducated, highly aggressive and power trippers. American or otherwise.


The whole U.S. federal government should have been tried for "overstepping their bounds."

You seem like a good natured person, but why are you making all these claims of "beheadings" yet dismissing any claims of bombing and killing innocent civilians under the cleaned up term of "collateral damage?"


Funny how so many feel the exact same way about Uncle Sam, isn't it?

there are also many people that don't think like you
you just backed up my opinion about you. fu.k you puzzler

do you even know what this word means you communist bastard?
the Poles I've met never made any comments like you

If Bush ever made just one step against communist bastards like you puzzler, I'd follow him 100%
People like you make us Americans act like I did answering your dumb ass communist posts.
To all of you nice Polish people on this forum, I have a sympathy for your people and country I just can take such a communist bastards like PUZZLER !!!

Yep, but it's worse now. When Saddam was still the dictator, there were not state religon, Iraq was a secular state. Now the country is going to turn into an Islamic state, with fundamentalists running it, it means less freedom for Iraqi people, big thanks to the US !...And better days under such a gov, won't happen soon...



They may be "happy" that Saddam era is over, but i think that Bush is a good substitute. Do you know how many people die since the beginning of this big sh!t ?...Do you know how many families still cry their lost children ? Do you know how many people fight for life in their so-called hospitals ? Do you know how many people are wounded, missing a leg or an arm if not worse...? Ask them what they think about Bush.



Yeah...they "helped", hmm... Iraq will need its oil to rebuild the whole country, i hope Bush didn't plan to take it all...



There are always good reasons to get out of such a mess.

:)

calling someone a communist (& assuming he sees Poland as UW) for opposing HIS country's (ie Poland's) involvement in Iraq makes less sense as calling you a crusader for believing in your country's involvement.


Some people believe Poland will get by just fine without US or Russian "sympathy" & that Poland's best interests are served within a strong EU...looking neither towards Moscow or Washington DC. Hardly a communist ideal?

The US administration walked all over the UN, the EU...including attempting demonize France, in it's panic to take Iraq. Many US citizens regret the whole thing. New government in Australia elected on a get the troops home manifesto, Most Europeans didn't buy it in the first place...and anyway, Polish support for Bush's war on terror (which is the topic!) is a matter for Poland & her people....such as Puzzler!

How many days will this army last when the US forces withdraw from Iraq?

I prefer Iranian Mullahs than Saddam. Mullahs reduce freedom but they are very predictable in opposition to this freak Saddam.

Mullahs try to make the war a peoples' effort.Saddam made it a state item.So it is easy to turn propaganda against mullahs,call them terrorists and deny their right to rule while diktatorships like these of Sadam,Kantafi are rigid and rely on military support.

YEEE HAAWW!

Everyone here expresses his personal opinions.We are not supposed to express the opinions of the public or the average.We are the public.

You need to read this girls storey.

http://riverbendblog.blogspot.com/

She's been talking about life in in her country since Bush and his chum Blair decided to come a calling!



This is sick! There are plenty of more pictures that can be shown here showing the same said soldiers torturing men, or gang raping a 14 year old girl just after murdering her family...and then of course a bullet in her head when they've finished with her. There are also plenty of pictures and vidios of inocent familys being pulled out of their bombed homes in pieces. DO YOU REALLY THINK THAT THAT IRAQ IS A BETTER PLACE UNDER US/UK/PL OCCUPATION?

wake up girl.