Should Poland continue to support Bush's war on terror?

It seems he is sincere.... Either way it not doesn't matter its fairly clear he doesn't have the political power to step up to Bush as Sharon did... He's still being somewhat unreasonable as are Hamas but no where near the level of Sharon....

youtube.com/watch?v=msfxiodoMQQ&feature=related, watch this Matty, some info that the 'higher powers' played a huge part in 9/11. Rockefeller knew all about this, the Zionists were complicit. KSM hasn't even been proven to be alive!!

Its a 54 min video Seanus..... I will need some time to properly disgest this.... I will PM you with my thoughts in a few days....

I did not read (except for the first any of the preceding 73 pages, but it looks that the discussion diverted from its original theme.
The war was started in the interest of oil business and supported by pro Israel powers (someone mentioned neocons - check who are this people, it will be clear). Trouble is that now for Arabs it may be considered one more war of liberation. If it is true, our own Polish national history should make us think before supporting an occupying regime. Apart from possible consequences of becoming a target for retribution, and consequently snowballing mutual animosities, we may loose right to call our own underground during the WW2 Freedom Fighters. As there are idiots willing to volunteer to go to (any) war (I had met some) lets allow US to recruit, train, equip, and pay for such a force and use them for whatever they want as long as these people will not be associated with my country (Foreign Legion comes to mind).

Yes America spent almost a trillion dollars on the war only for oil....... good logic.... if America is as greedy as you say even they can do the math....


I think comparing setting up democracy in Iraq where all voices will be heard to setting up communism in Poland where all voices are supressed make a big differance... Saddam himself admitted that he made the world think he had wmds to scare the Iranians... America shouldn't have to take that chance and let these weapons fall into the hands of terrorists. Saddam hated America just as much as terrorists do and it was fair to assume that he would help them...



What you call stupidity I call bravery...... Stop being a coward..... When Hitler attacked Poland would you not also volunteer to go to war... If not your a disgrace to Poland and feel free to move to the middle east.....


Please let's us all hear about this imaginary foreign legion you speak off...

http://mpacuk.org/content/view/4231/34/, revealing. No need to watch all 54 mins Matty, just flick through as I did

http://www.prisonplanet.com/egyptians_knew_of_planned_911_attacks.htm, this is what the US wants everyone to know. They will just deny that they knew anything about it.

http://www.thepeoplesvoice.org/cgi-bin/blogs/voices.php/2007/12/21/ita lian_says_9_11_solved, a must read

http://www.bollyn.com/index/?id=10653, some good views

What is crystal clear, however, is that this war is not a "campaign against international terrorism". It is a war of conquest with devastating consequences for the future of humanity. And the American people have been consciously and deliberately misled by their government, spot on from an article

First the article from prison planet...... I don't remember anyone mentioning the exact date for the attack.... What was the US to do?.....Close down all airports not knowing when it will occur.....

Second the bollyn article..... Whats that prove, only that their is corruption....

Lastly the Italian politician.... Tell him to share with us some evidence and forgive us if we don't take his word for it...

Good point......

Completely missed by some ......
Maybe this was the point being made.....
I despair...

Now we have two idiots present in the thread...

completely nothing constuctive to add....

no it wasn't, you are comparing a terrorist who want's to establish an islamic state to Poland defending itself against Hitler..... lol.... very inteliigent

You should it seems your stupid for life...

Reaffirmed March 9th.

Matty - please try to elevate the debate beyond good guys vs terrorists.
Please try to provide some analysis of the situation beyond your usual personal attacks.

what's to elevate, you can't argue with the truth can you? Plus I would say okey guys vs terrorists...

i would but if the person you are talking to doesn't have the intelligence to see the stupidity in their arguements... I'd rather save my breath.....

Point proven yet again.

Good one, that was orignal...... wow you sure are a clever one.... I would think you would learn after last time but obviously your a slow learner..... I must admit though you are entertaining...

Israel, ur 'friend', http://www.davidduke.com/writings/howisraeliterror.shtml

http://iamthewitness.com/DarylBradfordSmith_ZionSummary.html, more good info

http://www.antiwar.com/justin/j100402.html, Israeli involvement

http://www.lobster-magazine.co.uk/articles/9-11.htm, more incriminating evidence

Ur govt is being bought and sold down the river

David Duke article, I support dealing with Israel once we deal with the Palastinian conflict.... Once again Israel does not control America, Jews have influence not control..

I am witness article, Once again I support dealing with Israel, I'm sure they were dancing, they were probably happy that America is entering the war..... Hopefully once were done blowing up the terrorists then we can blow up the Israelis....

Antiwar article, Not even going to read it, pretty clear its biased info...

Lobster article, I don't trust anyone trying to promote his book..... conflicting accounts have to do with covering the inadiquate responce of the VP than our government involvement in 911 attack...


I find it very difficult to believe that US knew Israel was responsible and we did nothing to respond.... For that to be true there must not be one single patriot in the entire US government...

The point was the funds being spend on war comes from a taxpayer, while profits from oil are going to the owners of private corporations. It is only marginally important, to these entities what costs are as long as they make money at the end. The problem here is that the US government acts in the interest of corporations and not whole nation.
I had heard that is going to be closer to five trillion. Try to think what could be done for this staggering amount. Uncurious George, Cheney and the rest of a gang are quite expensive for US taxpayers.

The war was for OIL and nothing else. HALIBURTON is in oil business not in democracy business.

For me people who are volunteering to be send to place they never heard of and to kill people they did not know existed are not heroes. If they do it for money, then it is a job. It probably takes different type of a person than I hope to be, but there are some who will volunteer to be executioners as well. When it comes to not being a coward, I have had a good fortune not being tested in that matter so far. For what I experienced and heard sometimes not those who use loud and heroic words are coming true.

yep that is possible. but now looking at alot of things.. its possible that its
imperative.. our supplies arent that great.. and saudi arabia financing the terrorists
and russia supplying them.. we really have to look out for our own interests..
and the interests of those who will be affected by it..

I remember growing up and hearing my dad talk about us being cut off by saudi's
and I remember how mad he was.. saying they can come and build their gas stations
but they cant fill our gas tanks! and that threats were being said against us then..
so its no big secret they think they can cut us off. but of course Russia being able to
cut off natural gas to the Ukraine? ehh anway.. anythings possible.. and I still wish
and hope that this would be over with by now.. but all these problems going on and
unsettled nations..

1. The high price of oil has made greater profits for our enemies than America(I doubt America would do this just to make a few people rich in the US and make even more people rich in those countries )
2. I dont know of any increased oil imports from Iraq to the US. do you?(now if your going to tell me it wasn't for the oil itself but to increase the price of the oil) then my answer is the threat of war would have sufficed in bringing up the prices as it has when the market thought we might attack Iran..

3. Why promote biofuels so strongly if it sure doesn't help the oil companies.

Now granted maybe oil was on the agenda but it was not the sole reason... There where much more urgent and more important reasons.. Oil was probably the 4th most important reason to invade Iraq.... If companies got rich than good for us if they didn't than either way we would have invaded...

If oil was the only reason for invading Iraq than it would have been much easier to attack Saudi Arabia...... They are our main oil exporter and most of Hijackers were from there... (it sure as hell would have been much easier to sell the war to the public and to the world)



First American's fought the first gulf war so they where not volunteering for a place they never heard of....



Believe it or not Americans were fairly informed about terrorists after 911....



Few nuts fall through the cracks... Few become nuts in Iraq..... What .2 % of US soldiers compared to 100% of nuts found among the terrorists.

In addition we could have just talked to OPEC to lower production and this would have made OPEC rich and US oil companies... It would have been a Win Win for both of us and no war would be necessary.....

Oil was not only not the main reason but far from it...... If your going to disregard all else at least make an arguement for this post.....

When companies got super-rich effects the whole world. It is not better for any of us regardless where we live. Their shareholders live all over the world and they pay very little in taxes. Than they have so much power that they start to run governments. In the case of US it been like that for a long time, I am sure you had heard: "What's good for General Motors is good for the country" (Eisenhower's Secretary of Defense Wilson). This are the people who send cannon fodder to kill other poor bastards. These are the people who want you to bravely fight for their money. Themselves they indeed used heroics to avoid to be send where things were dangerous.

OIL - this is what Bushies are all about. Few years back it was all over the media that one of the Badr bin Abdul of Saudi was called by Bush 1st a "son".
With regard to soldiers being "informed", they are formed by the propaganda. Try to remember from your school day it wasn't the bright ones who ended up in the military. Requirement to be a soldier is not to bright, it is to be obedient. Equipment being used is designed to be operated by simpletons.
The last thing, you had heard the cliche: "one person's terrorist is the another person's freedom fighter" ("Terrorists" was what anti-German underground in Europe was called by the Germans during the WW2 occupation). Do not forget every time American forces or their proxies, kill or harm someone there is a good chance for the new "terrorist" being created. My own personal animosity toward Germans is a result of the harm they caused to my family during the WW2. Herodotus noticed that it takes generations to forget about war. That's why until recently adults of the conquered lands were usually killed.

And like many people have pointed out to you the truth of this war is that it has nothing to do with terrorism and has always been about oil and contracts for American companies.



Welcome to the forum janekb nice to hear another rational voice! Your fighting a loosing battle trying to get a rational argument from mattheass. He lives in some sort of hollywood fantacy land that's full of good guys and bad guys! And of cource because he's a psuedo Pole/American he thinks that if you don't suport HIS violent views, that makes YOU a coward.



I keep asking you this Patrycja. If the Saudi's are the real bad guys who are financing all these terrorists, how come the "war on terror" didn't start there? Surely if "they" had cut off the finance the war would have been over very quickly.

The War on Terror is the biggest pretext of our times!! The problem is that loyalties are so divided, nobody knows who is fighting who. Maybe that's why US troops attacks the Allies instead. More and more info is available online to show the involvement of both Pakistan and Saudi Arabia, the notion that we are chasing people in caves is now a joke. America let these people go, I've read this on both Republican and Democrat sites. There is ample proof WITH TECHNICAL EVIDENCE. Scott Ritter again showed satellite evidence. Many Republicans, and Ritter was one, defend the credibility of it.

I tip my hat to Matty for being a true patriot, showing bad blood to those who are manipuating America, namely Pakistan, Saudi Arabia and Israel. A true American knows what it means to be American and won't be subject to outsiders meddling and changing the current of events. The Bush govt sold out to these forces. Janekb is right, the Zionist financiers were the taxpayers who funded 9/11 and the American private corporations gain. Yeah, a trillion dollars now but that will be much more than recouped in the long run. Mr Rockefeller or Rothschild could pay that off in a one-er.

PNAC success is the top priority for Bush and his cronies. Success comes at a price. Why pay so much? Well, if u succeed then it is worth it. As my friend said when the English FA hired Cappello for 6million pounds a year, if he gets the right results then the money is quickly forgotten about. I see his point

Yet American interests have seen to meddling in the middle east since donkey's years. That is where the double standard begins to rear its head...

While not being a fan of terrorism one must acknowledge the chain of events that have led to such an influx in this ism. As of yet, the pro america rah rah crowd have simply ignored those events or tried (are trying) to marginalize the importance of acknowledging these things.

It's similar to trying to figure out why Poland has taken a much longer time to move forward without acknowledging the effects of war here.

anyway dude, i do agree with your position and the obvious links between War profiteering and american businessmen (CIA directors are routinely from the world of big business, oddly enough) but there is no fairness or objectivity to a "we can do it, they can't" attitude. If one party can resort to violence without condemnation then all participants ought to be have that same recourse of action and also be free of condemnation.

anyway, i've allowed this thread to take up more time than is healthy.

Yeah, the Hulk Hogan entry song has had its day, lol. Anyone who has watched the Russo interview on Youtube well knows that America has diluted freedoms and stripped away civil rights. The neocons have waved their wand of evil and they don't give a hoot about the people of America, those that do a good job 9-5. America took up this PNAC vision/strategy as other powers are growing rapidly in strength and influence and the PNAC will attempt to claw back certain powers. America is concerned that Russia and China are growing exponentially and not accruing enormous national debts in so doing.

The meddling is here to stay unfortunately. America cannot do without Saudi Arabia and Israel.

See it was not necessary to start a war to make oil companies rich, we could have just talked to OPEC.......

Also if your talking about oil itself... There has been no substantial increase in Iraqi exports to US. Please feel free to prove me wrong.

Whoever thinks the war was only for oil..... Is ____________(adj) a little mad libs if your
bored...



Seanus in ww2 something similiar to the patriot act was also enforced but once the war was over it was repelled.

The Patriot Act is the antithesis of what the US is supposed to be about. Imperialism and intrusive policies are swiftly becoming the norm. Serious infractions of civil rights have been witnessed here, this must stop!!

"What happens to all imperial powers?", they die of indigestion says Scott Ritter.

U don't mention Scott Ritter much Matty. Why not?

youtube.com/watch?v=SVjSwGnIUII&feature=related, this is spoken by a TRUE American, he knows what it means to be an American

youtube.com/watch?v=jfuG0Agtb6Y&feature=related, Moving on to Iran, he is a man of facts. Iran is still part of the Axis of Evil, should it be? "Diplomacy is but a smokescreen to disguise the ultimate objective of regime change". This guy was in Iran and wasn't attacked or restricted. He describes the Iranian people as "pro-American".

What about North Korea (NK) Matty? Rumour has it that NK is a bum buddy of the US. I found that starkly wrong but Bush hasn't turned up the heat on them for a while.

On Iraq, Saddam has destroyed most of his weapons in 1991. The problem here is one of onus, America puts the onus on Iran and did so on Iraq, like trying to prove a negative.

Yeah your right, unfortunatly the Iranian government is anti-American...... If true democracy existed in Iran..... Than the government would be a direct representation of the Iranian people.....


Yeah I guess all those sanctions the US was fighting for so long before NK gave up there nukes was just for show because we are such bum buddies..... or could it be the pressure died down because NK decided to give up its nukes...


Why because no one even talks about him because he's retarded.... True American.... don't make me laugh..... He thinks that Iraqi resistance is acceptable...... Once the Iraqi government tells us to leave.... we will..... The Iraqi government knows better than is own citizens that premature US withdrawel can lead the country into chaos...

Let me ask you, if America was to withdrawel tommorrow..... do you not see any danger in that move????

Let me tell you your unreasonable and contradictiory stance..... We are such bum buddies with Israel that we turn a blind eye.... at the same time we are such bum buddies with NK that we don't turn a blind eye... Which is it do we turn a blind eye or not when were bum buddies with countries...

NK hasn't given up its nukes Matty, do u read scientific magazines?

speculation mounts as to what each of the major players — John McCain, Hillary Clinton, or Barack Obama — are likely to do to persuade north Korea to abandon its nukes.

From an article APU. This is from Feb 15, 2008.

Ritter is retarded, what???? The man is one of the foremost authorities on WMD's and Middle East regimes. How can u say that? Iraqi resistance is acceptable, it is THEIR country.

The Iraqi govt is Shi'ite led and has been conditioned to be pro-American Matty, there's the truth 4 u. U have had a long time to install an interim government there, the teething problems were always gonna take time but heels have been dragged.

Let me ask u this, how long were sanctions imposed on Iraq? 11 years perhaps? Would it be fair to say from 1991 to 2002? The US govt clearly believes he has always had WMD's. Years of sanctions, fine, they serve an effective purpose as deterrents but they wouldn't prevent Saddam from building his WMD's, just put a minor dent in his oil-rich economy.

I do see danger in that move Matty, yes, some Iranians have been stirring up some trouble there. However, I see from ur writing style the stories u have read and ur take on them. What's the difference between leaving now and leaving in 5 years time? Do u really feel that the new govt are building their defence apparatus capabilities? What 'extra work' do u envisage as needing to be done?

Why is there so much info being spread around that Bush will bomb Iran b4 he leaves office? As u said, it is the leader that apparently has a hostile agenda, not the people. Why punish them for the words of their superior? The pretext of terrorism will be used and many innocent Iranians will die. This is unacceptable!!!!!

Oh, Im sorry in the process of dismantling them....http://www.thedailystar.net/story.php?nid=26109



Yes he's retarded... Spent to much time in the UN..... Iraqi resistance acceptable....lol
They should have voted for another government... Iraqi government has inside knowledge and better understanding of terrorism than some average Iraqi on the street.... If Iraqi government asks us to leave we will....



B*llshit...... What did we brainwash all of them.... Many factions not just Shiite see the danger in premature withdrawel...



Yeah your right, they weren't so effective, yet sometimes they work... It seems to be working with NK. First we tried sanctions on Saddam, that didn't work, so our next step was to invade his a*s.... Can't go to step 2 without at least trying step 1....



Good question.... First we could finish handing over all provinces to the Iraqi army.... ensure that the army can handle security on it's own.... Second build infrastructure to make life easier for Iraqis, be there to make sure corruption doesn't run rampant, be there to make sure the job is being done..... etc.....



Another good question, Why because the Iranian people don't have control of there own country... Let's say the president of Iran wanted to bomb America... should America not respond just because the Iranian people don't support there president... no

It's sad and unfortunate but America is not going to pay for the weakness of the Iranian people because they are unable to exert any control or influence on their government..

OK, I'll keep this relatively brief as I gotta hit the sack soon.

NK has started the process but completion is a long way off. The North could still restart the reactor even after disablement, though Hill has said that process would take at least a year. Article based

The Iraqis should have voted for another govt, like it was really their choice. True democracy is still a long way off in Iraq. This country has known autocracy for years, changes happen incrementally, not overnight Matty. The American govt had a hand in appointments.

On Iran, read up on Operation Merlin, a screw up by the CIA that backfired. They actually inadvertently aided Iran in supplying warhead expertise. As for the Iranian people being weak, pull the other one. Why do u think people didn't challenge Saddam? Bcoz he was powerful. It's not as easy as u think to challenge the thinking and actions of regimes like Iran's. Iran is not America Matty. They have no constitution like the US one.

America has no intention of withdrawing from Iraq, the PNAC says as much.

You asked me why the US was in Iraq and spending billions. Simply put, the price of safety!! The US govt has convinced many American people that they are safe as Saddam is out of the way.

What I also see is that Iran hasn't been attacked, despite the repeated threats of attack in 2006 and 2007. Why not? Well, because the climate of fear must be maintained. Everyone knows that Iran doesn't have WMD's yet but we are told that they are making them, or at least want them. Iran is America's jewel at the moment. They can maintain the tension and show the US public that they are safe by threatening Iran. This game will be played out for quite some time yet.

If America attacked Iran, they'd have to look for another 'rogue state'. Syria and Sudan have been forthcoming in offering intel to Americans so making a case against them would be a lot harder. Iran have given causes for America to be wound up but, frankly speaking, they aren't an immediate threat. This is Israel's issue, not America's.