Should Poland continue to support Bush's war on terror?

to be able to govern itself without Saddam and other genocidal maniacs, be able to provide security, and be able to provide freedom for the people of Iraq....

Regime change takes a long time, just look at Poland after communism, it doesn't happen overnight. U have to cut red tape, almost redefine the country and its international standing.

Security, many people are afraid in Western countries. Security, u had to suspect that militias would come out of the cracks and be a nuisance.

Freedom? Wow, I wonder if we will see the day when the Patriot Bill is extended so that it gets right into the private lives of normal citizens. Probably!! Freedom to do what? They can vote, they can buy more freely, they can express themselves etc etc

It didn't take Poland long for change..... Once communism collapsed we where fine....



Like I said we knew it was going to be difficult but didn't expect so much so..



Patriot act... I have plenty of freedom here..... I don't have to worry about being blown up because I am not wearing my veil.... Not to mention we had something similiar in ww2 to the patriot act and it was repelled once the war was over....



freedom not to be beheaded for speaking their mind.... is that good enough.....

Communism affected the psyche of the people Matty. Deeply entrenched attitudes take over and resistance sets in.

Where was the military contingency planning? Many Americans predicted that terrorists would come out of hibernation and cause problems on a large scale. Iran would be even worse.

It was repelled, exactly. A veil is a sign of their cultural identity. Yes, it appears draconian to us but a bit of cultural tolerance wouldn't go amiss.

Beheading is more prevalent in, guess where? America's great ally (sni**ering) Saudi Arabia. Maybe u should be giving more freedoms to the poor Saudis who are beheaded for committing certain crimes

I agree, but it was a fairly smooth transition.... Especially if compared to Iraq.....



maybe but in the end we will win..... can have consequences temporarly but many benefits in the long term...



Yes we predicted terrorists coming out we just didn't think it was going to take so long...



We had planning but were not psychics.... war never goes according to plan....



you know exactly where I stand..... I hate Saudi Arabia, why do keep bringing them up...

If war never goes according to plan, then u have to take random eventualities and occurences into consideration, right? If u knew that, where were plans B, C and D? There was some expectation that a different tack may be called for.

Why do we keep bringing Saudi Arabia up? Eh, it was u who mentioned beheading brotha. I didn't mention Wahabbism this time, be thankful. U care about the freedom of Iraqis after all this time and not those of ur allies?

It didn't take so long, the terrorists came out quickly and wreaked havoc. Could it be that America had gaping intel deficiencies and tactical shortcomings? U said urself that u learn as u go, r u reversing from this? If not, let the gradual process unfold and don't tell me that America had quick withdrawal plans when that scumbag Cheney intends to be there for the long haul.

Many benefits, for example? What is more important than human life and its saviour?

U r telling me that it was a smooth transition, changing ur modus operandi is hardly ever a smooth transition on a national scale. No offence, but u never experienced communism as an adult. I've heard many accounts of Poles who found the change pretty onerous and stressful. Communism was a powerful tool that got into the faces and hair of the people under it.

are you being serious.... we did but you cant predict everything....



so what???? we where talking about Iraq... if you want to talk about Saudi Arabia, fine.... that should be stopped also....



how is that reversing.... you learn as you go because you can't predict everything...



Once again I said fairly smoothly...... nothing comparable to Iraq....

Matty Matty, I'm not talking about predicting everything. I'm talking about anticipating resistance and there being a reasonable foreseeability that there would be impediments to advancing the agenda in Iraq. Of course I was being serious, if war doesn't go according to plan, then u have to look at how the plan might fail and devise contingency plans for different eventualities, what's so stupid about that? Not wholly reactive but proactive as much as possible. Stay ahead of the game!!

That should be stopped also, aha, we agree. Saudi is a tough nut to crack and supply us with oil, so let's leave them alone and turn a blind eye to their draconian practices.

U didn't predict corruption, resistance and violence? What kind of planners wouldn't have made provisions for that? Tell me

We anticipated the best we could with the intelligance or lack or intelligance we had...



nothing wrong with that.... it should be done.... Im not in the military so don't know exactly what was planned and what wasn't...



our attention will turn to Saudi Arabia.... sooner or later once the other countries that are causing the US more headaches are taken care of...



Of course we did..... just because you know it will happen doesn't mean their is a easy solution...

Then u missed the golden rule, always plan for more of sth than less. Be prepared, supply more troops and commit more funds, u can always withdraw.

The American military should be the role model and lead by example but many countries people lost faith and pulled their troops out. Their ineptitude showed how little exp the US has with crafty terrorists.

The US will take on Saudi Arabia, give me a break!!

Please admit that the US govt miscalculated badly and that the lack of an easy solution meant that death was inevitable with a fair likelihood of the death toll being high.

to be honest.... if it wasn't for the lack of American public support, more troops would be sent right away..... US military tried it with less numbers to please the public but when they noticed they had no choice they increased the troop levels... personally should have been done from the start because I dont know any average American who knows about military strategy...



you might not think so..... once we become less dependant on Saudi oil.... their going to be a target...



yeah they miscalulated.... not all their fault.... many factors were out of their control... sure they hold some responsibility but not all of it...

death toll is not high, 3000?????? that's nothing in a war....

America has been dependent on Saudi oil for a VERY long time. How do u plan to change/get around that? From Russian supplies?

Nothing in a war, ok, but loss of life is loss of life. R u gonna turn around and tell the families of those who lost their lives on 9/11, oh it's a small number? Even Rummie values the life of an INDIVIDUAL soldier. Cheney also said sth similar in reference to Saddam Hussein, it's on Youtube. 3000, not high?

First British are testing fission(power of the sun) almost limitless supply of energy...
You have biofuels, hydrogen cars, electric cars, solar power, wind power, and dozens more.... Give it ten to twenty years....

Not to mention the Saudis are worried about this.... that has something to do with them keeing OPEC production low, increasing prices to make as much money while they can....



Im not going to say it to their face as not to diminish their loss, but the truth is that it is a small number...

Yeah, so more beheadings and radical Islamic philosophies for 15 years then, great!! Britain has this potential, exactly.

OK, let's interpret 9/11 as an act of war through terror. The American media didn't think 3000 was such a small number.

No sh"t what are they supposed to say..... dont worry 3000 is not a big deal.... no one says it.... not even the politicains... it would be political sucide to say something like that...



unfortunately.......



US scientists are working on the project, either way it would make sense for Britain to share the knowledge.... makes economic sense....

If it's no big deal, why did u go to war with Iraq and Afghanistan?

Such sharing is common in the international community amongst allies i całe szczeście

Maybe I was being a little insensitive.... however point is compared to previous wars that 3000 is not much..... not to mention the 3000 that were killed on 9/11 were innoncent civilians and not soldiers who know the risks of going to war...



we need it, I hoping Europe has the balls to help instead of piggybacking the US...

Well, u've just confirmed my point that I made b4. America can't cry wolf for losing 3000+ troops when they are a volunteer army who know the risks. I always make comparison to murder. We are abhorred when we read about a brutal murder, the loss of 1 life, but think very little of losing 3000 lives. Not to mention the lives of many innocent Iraqis who must fear for their future. So much investment yet basic issues haven't been tackled. The Iraqis are still very poor and lack quality sanitation in many areas.

US government doesn't cry, it's the US public..... and I agree...... that's what pi*ses me off about these anti-war protestors....

Would u go and fight for America in Iraq or Afghanistan Matty? Bush claims that he sheds tears for American losses. Anti-war protesters send an important message out to the international community that indirectly protects u. Iran will see that many Americans are against the war and thus be less likely to attack. Not that they had any plans to do so anyway.

They are attempting to shift the balance in Iraq tho. Check out bbc.co.uk for some stories on the war.

definately........ I think about it to this day about joining the military.......



I agree, it does protect us.... it helps our image.... but at the same time it hurts us.... its a double edge sword.... for example Iran can be more bold since it knows their is no support for war.... depends what is more important... image or stopping Iran...... IMO were in a war so image is the least of my worries....



i'll check it out....

Iran could be bolder but strong words would fall on deaf ears, unless their leader advocated the destruction of Britain or another country.

definately they could be much more bolder.... however IMO they have been bold enough..... to bold if you ask me.... example taking advantage of the lack of political support in US.... Ill admit, it's clever, but gets under my skin.... that's where that double edge sword comes in...



to be honest capturing british sailors was up there on the boldness.... if you ask me Iran got off easy.....

The Iranians know one thing well tho, that the US forces are overstretched without further allied assistance so they will strike while the iron is hot and chance their mit. America can't afford, in all senses of that word, a war with Iran at this time

I agree, we could if let's say Iran was to attack US but short of that the costs would be to high.... so Iran is cleverly taking advantage of the situation.... I hope once Iraq is done and we get some political support for Iran... we deal with them appropriately...

It may be a forced issue, the Iranians are really trying to force ur hand on this one. They are meddling on the border and I think will unleash a few attacks in the near future. I don't know what was exchanged when the Iranian leader met with the Iraqi administration. He's as sly as a fox so he had sth up his sleeve 4 sure.

He's gonna welcome in a new tide of relations with Iraq and divide their loyalties. This is why the US ambassador is keen to set up cordial relations with the Iraqis ASAP. An Iraq that sides with Iran would definitely embarrass the US and question why trillions were spent in rebuilding the country

I agree, i am laughing thinking about it, it would be a disaster.....



Once again I have to agree...

Years of hatred between the 2 countries will stymie that but there are more and more Iraqis who are taking a liking to Iranians and vice-versa. Way off a united front tho

true, that is why we need to help the Sunnis gain a little more power to balance out the Shiites warming to Iran.... It's a tough balancing act.....

The Sunnis have greater ties to Iran at this moment.

The kind of sectarian fighting we're seeing now in Iraq is new in its scale and ferocity, and it was the Americans who unleashed it. From the following.

http://hnn.us/articles/934.html, this aids understanding tho a little too specific for my liking.