Should Poland continue to support Bush's war on terror?

To clarify. I am talking about the terrorist militias ( these are terms used by the US ) that are being funded by the US. You are saying that it is OK to fund some of these ? Therefore it is OK to fund some terorists and not others ? Hmmm.......


As a whole the country has gained nothing. Halliburton, Bush, Rumsfield etc have gained a fantastic amount.

Re Russia.
They having been trading Oil and gas with Iran for years. Now they have started buying Iraqi oil. Iraq and Iran are not small potatoes. Look at their oil reserves.

Like I said before - the US has gone in and killed around a million civilians, had around 4500 coalition troops killed, created millions of refugees for what ? Russia has spent the last five years developing their diplomacy and influence in the region.

This illustrates how poor the US administrations judgement in prosecuting this war has been. You seriously believe that the coalition went there to fight terrorists or to depose Saddam - sorry - like I said the war is morally corrupt and, IMO, indefensible.

I guess I am but I don't see them as "terrorist, but as reformed people that were trying to survive. After reading up on them and the why's they got involved they were trying to survive and live. You had young men and women with their whole life ahead of them killing themself and they saw nothing better. Or what would you suggest when they decided to change sides? Maybe I am wrong but let's hope they have found a better way with courts and laws. They are now able to earn a living and set an example, maybe even stop the terrorist groups from finding the youth of the future.



Lets see Russia trading with the ones that already have, seems like an odd situation.



Trade has made Russia go from rags to riches and with a nation upset they can take it away in a heartbeat.



Look up what Saddam's rule did and was doing to the people or did we plant the mass graves and brainwash the people that lost family. His son's took great pride in this.

Clearly the US has it's own definition of justice and injustice as well as who can enjoy justice and who shouldn't.Any decent,moral and just person/administration knows and accepts the fact that Palestine continues to be denied true justice and before you launch into the ''they're terrorists'' mantra give a thought to how the whole situation arose in the first place- with the murder,expulsion, confiscation of their land/property not to mention the continued refusal of the right to return to their land.

In the last five years the US has created a few more mass graves and killed heaps of families - remember, we were supposed to be the good guys.

The war is indefensible.

Here I must admit "I aggree" with you. The moral of the story is life is not easy and many issue's need help. For now I am off to the town fair to live each day to the fullest. Have a great weekend everyone.

You too - have fun at the fair.

Thanks I will. :) Roller coaster here I come.

Dont eat too much before :-)

Just thought I'd point out a tiny little thing...Palestinians living within Israel are still Israeli citizens. Shocking, yes I know. Murder, expulsion, confiscation? Who was shooting the rockets at whom again? Israel just has a harsh way of dealing with terror.
No, Palestinians are not labeled as terrorists, but rather members of certain groups which seek political gain by indiscriminate slaughter of civilians-creating fear, and, they hope, public support...these are labeled terrorists.
Palestinians themselves? other than ones living in the new Palestinian authority area (I think it's called) they are Israeli. Just like a black man from my street and an Asian from two blocks over...are just as much American as I am.
Hope that makes sense....

John P.

So were black people within the u.s. prior to rosa parks and the dr. martin luther king demonstrations, what's your point?

But you missed eagle's point, they didn't and don't want to be israeli yah big goof! they are muslim not jewish.

wow, way to bandy words about. Never mind the terror inflicted by the Israeli forces, it's ok cause they wear uniforms.
Try this, Israeli authorities see fit to indiscriminantly kill any Palestinian (or american protester for that matter) in response to any attacks on their apartheid control of the area.

have a great day.

Nope.

Didn't kill as many as Bush's rule has. And he was in power for 23 years as apose to Bush's 5.5 years.



That sounds like the Israeli government your discribing.


It is! Isn't it?

You were right JohnP about the unsubstantiated numbers on this one. But they are in now and it would seem I jumped the gun a little when I claimed 76 dead civilians including 50 children.

My deepest and most sincere apology!

The true figure confirmed by the UN is 90 dead civilians including 60 children.

U.N. says has evidence air strikes killed 90 Afghans

Would any other Americans care to defend this action now?

Your silence is deafening!

A lot you know! A couple of years ago an Israeli politician came up with the idea of shifting the border between Israel proper and the Palestinian Authority so that some Arab population centers would be in "Palestine" instead of Israel. The idea was that the Arabs would be happy to be part of "Palestine", and Israel would have fewer Arabs in its territory. Everyone wins, right?

Wrong.

Guess what, the Arabs in those areas (Umm el Fahm) were totally against the plan. They wanted to stay within Israel's borders and remain Israeli citizens. Their situation as Israeli arabs is clearly better than the situation of Arabs living in the Palestinian Authority's territory (the West bank).

does anyone dispute this?

i imagine that israeli arabs suffer less from the agression, blockades and sanctions that arabs living in the palestinian authority's territory are subject to

or am i wrong?

Well John P disputes this. Look at his post which I quoted.

The Israeli Arabs suffer less because by and large they accept Israel as a Jewish state where they are a minority with political rights. The arabs living in the palestinian authority territory and Gaza suffer from roadbloacks because they are the ones sending suicide bombers and rockets into israel. They also suffer from their own government who are just a bunch of thugs who can't run a grocery store, let alone a country.

In much the same way that Polish people accepted Nazi Germany - they have no choice.

Yehudi, the problem will never be resolved due to the stubborness of people. The Palestinians will say that the Israelis are the terrorists by sending in tanks and war planes, and retaliation will be interpreted in the same way.

U can see the polarity of the two sides in that they don't accept concessions given by the other. It's all or nothing so the killing will continue.

Gee, I don't remember but maybe you can ask some old Polish people about the german occupation: Did Poles vote and have representatives in the german reichstag? Did they work freely in any jobs wherever they wanted to in Germany? Israeli Arabs do all that. Did Polish opions on german government policies appear regularly in mainstream german newspapers in those years? What the h*ll are you talking about?

Arabs in israel have the ultimate choice: Any Arab who isn't satisfied with having political rights in Israel and wants to live in an Arab-majority country can leave Israel or the territories whenever he wants to. Did the germans give that right to Poles in the occupation? I don't think so.

But it's easier to make meaningless comparisons since people are willing to believe anything you say about Israel anyway.

U have a good point here yehudi. However, I think it's based on a simple calculation by the Knesset that they will remain a minority group. If there ever came a day when they'd be the majority group, I think the tune may change.

What would they say if you offered them a choice to be called Israeli or Palestinian?

Unlike most of you, I speak to Arabs because I see them every day. Here are some answers to that question:
An Arab woman in the Galilee said "I am an Israeli citizen of Arab nationality who belongs to the Greek Orthodox religious community".
A Muslim Arab filmmaker from the town of Taybe calls himself a "Palestinian-Israeli".
There are a lot of nuances and variations of identity depending on religion and age group. It's not black and white. But what is for sure is that they value their Israeli citizenship and don't want to change it for Palestinian citizenship.

I keep posting good credible links to back up my claims JohnP. It turns out that there is film footage of the aftermath of this masacre that you've played down.


URL



So tell me:

Where are the AK47's and how official do you want this storey to be?

They were killing each other before US were there and sadly they will be killing each other when were gone.



LOL All depends on the one you ask?

I want it to be officially the 3rd storey, lol. Sorry hairball.

I think action needs to be taken as a deterrent to future action. It would serve to increase the level of care and lower the chances of future occurences

Action directed at whom?

Directed at soldiers who carelessly cause the death of innocent children.

I was just wondering what troops, if it's clear?

"review the investigation into the combined Afghan National Army (ANA) and US forces operation".


"The US and Nato need to dramatically improve their co-ordination with each other and with the government of Afghanistan," HRW's Rachel Reid told the BBC.

Afghan President Hamid Karzai has repeatedly warned the US and Nato that civilian deaths undermine his government and damage the reputation of foreign forces in the country.

This is your problem Carol. You're defending/dismissing this CRIME...because that's what it is....with cold comments like this. 60 of the dead were children and 15 were women. So your crass response is way out of line.



I'm not here for a spelling test Seanus! :-)

Any soldier has a duty of care, America has followed a policy of minimising civilian casualties so it must abide by that too.

Improving coordination years after being in Afghanistan, wow, it sounds like they really got it right, NOT.