Should there be a war on terror and how/who should it be fought?

Bush keeps it simple, "There's no bigger task than protecting the homeland of our country".

I just wish it showed in our health care.

http://www.worldaffairsboard.com/south-asian-defense-topics/42386-paki stan-insurgents-seize-key-fort-south-waziristan.html, America must get in there. The Pakistani contingent alone can't contain the Taliban. America, get serious and start wiping out the Taliban. We need a new air campaign there, and fast.

USA cannot, nor should they do it on there own, who's coming with them?

Now hang on there a minute tiger ! This fort is on the frontier, it was manned by 42 Pakistani personnell. Now the attack is being credited to the Taliban but my feeling is it is more likely to be a local militia.
I think the Pakistanis will do OK by themselves without a blanket carpet bombing of the area and all the subsequent refugee crisis which would destabilise their country.

Maybe u r right but America and another power could do with some targetted bombing. I'm aware of possible destabilisation but these militant groups need a rude awakening. There needs to be more coordination in that area. Al Qaeda are still strong, I bet America are ruing the missed chances to capture them.

Al Qaeda ? Aye right ! These are the guys that were nowhere 7 years ago but are now the biggest threat to world stability ?
But there was no organization. These were militants who mostly planned their own operations and looked to bin Laden for funding and assistance. He was not their commander. There is also no evidence that bin Laden used the term "al-Qaeda" to refer to the name of a group until after September the 11th, when he realized that this was the term the Americans had given it"
URL
Again, if the world didnt have them, they would have to be invented.

This in large part is due to internet. This is how they recrute new young en's.

Oh, I see - that will be why it is only the well developed countries with high internet access that have these problems, you know, like Afghanistan, Sudan, Yemen etc.LOL

The main recruiting agent for the Jihadist type organisations is the disastrous Middle Eastern policy of the US and UN.

The point I was making is that for a large part, Al Quada has been an invention of the neo cons. Did you read the link "Power of nightmares "?

As a matter of law, the U.S. Department of Justice needed to show that Osama bin Laden was the leader of a criminal organization in order to charge him in absentia under the Racketeer Influenced and Corrupt Organizations Act, also known as the RICO statutes.
URL

the news. as much as i distrust mainstream media, on that video tape, osama said as much, if the u.s. weren't involved in so much m. east politics and economics then he wouldn't be so against them. this is according to video tapes released in mainstream media, if you value what you here on mainstream media then that ought to be credible.

i also read books, books are good, books are your friends.

again, when american politics and military policy are withdrawn from directly influencing other nations, namely those with resources whether they be raw or human, then we'll see a reduction of terrorism.

But really, terrorists are using violence, so are government militaries. How would you feel if some guys dressed in green invaded the place where your people have always lived (and this is before 911 as well)? I am not saying soldiers. Your family or not, that doesn't mean that automatically they are on the side of "good."

Here's an analogy: It's like when someone tries to tell me how much more valuable a human life is than any animal's. I say tell that to the mother bear where you're too close to her cubs.

anyway glad we can exchange things with some decorum, cheers to you.



that's just it, that's the irony of the whole thing, shouldn't other nations be free from villainization for adopting the same mantra? *rhetorical question*

youtube.com/watch?v=bgyHqXcyxNk, he has some good views, cuts straight to the chase

Your right he does have some great idea's. I was hoping once the numbers are under control there could be international fines for offenses of knowingly supporting or even ignoring them per country. The money brought in could go to fund a "national" group to oversee the growth. Have one central office for the nation that reports, runs a international site, sends out rewards for reporting possiable issues. USA can say home and watch our own boarders.

Celinski, many people have said that, in order to fight a battle, u need to not just know ur strengths but to know ur enemy. Check this out, youtube.com/watch?v=06g8Yifi9YI, this is just part 1 of 10, almost 2 hours worth of footage. I'm gonna watch most of it I think.

That does look excellant and I do plan on watching it. Thank you
I think this movie will alsop shead alot of light on some issues.

Charlie Wilson's War Movie Trailer

youtube.com/watch?v=-a4PJAF6_0w&feature=related, the birth of the Wahhab philosophy, a radical and draconian set of ideas that was championed by the Saudis. Dimwits!!

Can you give a synopsis afterwards ? I dont have time to watch it all.

each will give there own take on this. IMO it starts with Russia trying to take over, USA Saudi and Pakistan helping Afganastan, Bin Ladden coming into play with his own money to help, Pakistan taking refugees 1/3 of the population. Taliban had no air defense until USA provided "Stinger" then this turns it in favor of Afganastan. Feb 15,1989 Soviet Union has full retreat. Omar goes to Kondahar (not sure of sp) Bin go home to Saudia as a islamic war hero, US celebrates this covert opporation , communism fall soon after.

This is when all heck breaks out with a civil war, turning guns on each other , drugs and black market sale of weapons at an all time high. USA embasy remains closed.

So on 1-2-3 of 10 we have No laws, no order. Main ones being hurt and living in high poverty are the Afgan citizens.

Thanks Carol - I will put this on my list of things to do.
Didn't realise 1/3 of population went to Pakistan.

I would be interested on info on what the average Afghani does to get by. Apart from the trade in Opium, how to they survive?

Good synopsis Celinski. The interesting dimension that emerges from this is that Omar, as leader of the Taliban, couldn't control OBL and Al Qaeda. OBL had his own agenda and was believed to have killed Mehsud of the Northern Alliance, without the knowledge or consent of Omar.

Americans got a taste of their own treatment. After the mujihadeen successfully expelled the Russians, the American govt simply ignored them thereafter. America helped the cause of the Northern Alliance but the NA turned their back on them too.

The recurring theme is how the Taliban always seem to bounce back and rally support for their cause.

Seanus wrote:

Bush keeps it simple, "There's no bigger task than protecting the homeland of our country".

Yes, that's why he hired Markus Wolf, former head of the East German Stasi, as a security consultant for the Dept.of Homeland Security back in 2002...that's why he has the dual Israeli/American Michael Chertoff as Homeland Security head...to 'protect' America...yes, Bush keeps it simple.

There's an Inside Al Qaeda too, 5 parts, 45 mins of filming

I saw that.

America was treated like this because we are consider infidels.

You really have to watch the whole thing, it is excellent. Americans helped and the real problem was not America but the Taliban abuse of power. I am not done I am on 7/10.

After Russia is out Afghanistan needs a good leader, Bin goes home to Sudan, Africa to continue organizing Arab vets from Soviet/Afghan war.

One eyed Omar is quietly studying Islamic studies in Kandahar. Then two girls are kidnapped and the villagers run to Omar for help, this brings him back into the spot light. Omar gets 30 Taliban back together, they attack and take over a tank, run over the war lord commander and hang his body off the tank, save the two girls. This is the beginning of "Taliban" of today. Now the Taliban looks good for a country trying to achieve a safe country and grows by 1,000's.

Omar is looked up to as a hero and now he starts having visions, Mohamid is telling him to kill Mujahadin. In 11/94 they move into Kandahar and take it over in two days without so much as a fight. This is due to the backing of "Pakistan", the ISI, although they deny bribing and telling Kandahar's local commander to just surrender, it was know they supported growing Taliban with food, fuel, and supply's to restore, reuse and re supply the large am'ts of weapons left from Russia, migs, tanks, weapons. Pakistan and Afghanistan thought they were the savors, liberators and they made the people feel safe and stable. From here 20,000 students joined the Taliban.

Now Omar’s has his sights on Kabul, what he didn't know was "The Lion" , Massude Hadean a legendary Muslim, was waiting. For the first time, Taliban was taken off guard and took a loss of 3,000 causalities. Omar knows he must do something so he and Pres. Bannie call for none other than Osama Bin Laden. Bin they feel can strike a deal where the two groups can work as one government. Bin is in the process of being told to leave with his group of terrorists, heads to Afghanistan.

Now Omar’s goes in front of 1,200 religious leaders a puts on a 60 year old cloak and tells them his title is "Commandor of Faithful" and he has the right as 2nd to Muhammad to lead all Muslims. Bin in the meantime gets to eastern Afghanistan and the area he is in gets attacked by Taliban. Bin see's their power and now instead of going to Masude he joins Taliban. Bin gives the Taliban 3 mil of his own money to build up more weapons.

sept of 96 Masude see it coming and retreats to the north. Taliban takes Kabul without a fight. They take Najebula and other top man, tourture and hang them off the street lights for all to know the Taliban are in charge. Right away the Afgan people see how currupt the Taliban is. Taliban feels it is there devine right to run the country until they return to Mohamid. Omars rules ban tv, radio, music, womans rights. Many were killed under "Mullah Omars edit". His virtue, vise ministry made for killing in broad daylight.

This is where religion starts to play a heavy role. Back in the north in the Panjushir Valley, Massude's birthplace a northern alliance of Tasjiks, Uzbecks and Haaras. For the last 3 decades the 3 groups have been killing each other and now they must unite to ward off Taliban. Mind you no one trust anyone in Afghanistan.

Taliban is using a tactic in this now ethnic/tribal war, they are "starving the citizens" blocking UN transport of food in the winter of 1998. With the Taliban being Sunnis Muslims, Mussudes are Shiite. Taliban now says kill anyone who is not Sunnite. Taliban then starts taking over villages and killing all the men if they are not Sunnis. In the mean time, Pakistan and Saudi Arabia are the only two backing the Taliban. Pakistan feels the northern alliance are their enemies , comprised of Iran , India and Russian. Al Quada joins the northern alliance.

Bin and Omar are great friends now and Bin talks Omar into letting his set up a camp for training a group of men. This is when Bin decides to broaden his sites to USA. He goes on TV and declares a war on infidels in the USA, they must all die. Omar learns of this, has a fit and makes Bin go on TV and tell of his full support for Taliban and Omar.

So there you have it. Please don’t mind my spelling as a lot of the words are new to me. To be con’t…

I like the use of insiders by America. They are using Iraqi's to fight on their side as they know the territory better. America, by siding with the Shi'ites, is showing that they are not going after Muslims, but terrorists. I'd just issue a caveat and get them to be cautious. Allegiances can quickly change. At least Zarkawi is out of the way.

Ya, but now Hamid Gul (Pakistan Intelligence leader) is back and very big supporter of Taliban. Afganistan people are sick of the fighting. Forces did take out one of ten leaders, Mulla Dadullah Acone, he was a very sick puppyand was 2nd after Omar on CIA most wanted. On line video is recruting tool that brings in thousands for Taliban and a schools on Pakistan/ Afgan boarder. Now I see why Pakistan is treated the way they are by USA. 37 nations fighting Taliban, time to get it under control for the people.

The Taliban were not detested by the people. They claimed to prefer them to the American presence. The people need law and order and some form of continuity. Musharraf is playing a dangerous card, he is torn between the Taliban and the US. He is a prime target for assassination, such is the volatile nature of the region. He needs to step down

I think they were detested by many people people, I accept that may not be the majority. It's just that the stability they provided is what people now miss. The terrible state of affairs at the moment encourages rose-tinted spectacles.

Is it in u to post sth non humorous Osioł? Hehehe, we should put u on the obituary thread amigo

Yes the Taliban were hated for quite awhile. With the allied being there for so long and the re rise once moree of the Taliban there is contempt from the citizens. They are now saying lets blame the troops. It's must be hard for the troops there trying to help Afgan's that took the support and turned it into hate.

Ya all seem to be forgetting that "evil" Iran also took in many many afgan refugees,mainly hazari (read this months National Geographic for details).
Lol,the people liked the talib....what a crok.

Where is Sinbad the sailor?