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Big decline of Catholic religion in Poland

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posts: 325

miranda	Jan 19, 07, 11:50 #91
Quoting: FISZ, Post #90 think he's just stressing that it's strict I don't really understand what Frank meant, so perhpas if he expains himself I would not have to get on my defensive side

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Jan 19, 07, 12:33 #92

Quoting: miranda, Post #82

back to religion topic in Poland

Miranda, was just taking this statement as a matter of fact statement.....imagine school teacher at top of classroom, instructing her pupils to pay attention and to stop distracting from what she teaching sorta thing,.......ok....

The expression I used obviously didn't travel too well across our cultures...lol...but only a bit of fun.......

cygThreads: 8 Posts: 153 Joined: Oct 31, 07 ♂	Nov 14, 07, 12:01 #93
Here's an interesting factoid about Catholicism in Poland - more than 90 percent of Poles declare themselves to be Catholic, but according to a 2005 Eurobarometer study, only 80 percent of Poles believe in God. http://ec.europa.eu/public_opinion/archives/ebs/ebs_225_report_en.pdf (see table on p. 9) Clearly, more than 10 percent of Polish Catholics do not believe in God. How about that?

z_dariusThreads: 22 Posts: 5,091 Joined: Oct 18, 07 ♂	Nov 14, 07, 12:16 #94
Quoting: cyg Clearly, more than 10 percent of Polish Catholics do not believe in God. How about that? Could those possibly have identified themselves as Catholics only because their parents baptised them?

telefonitika

Nov 14, 07, 12:56 #95

Quoting: z_darius

z_darius

i was baptised as my fathers mum and sister were devout roman catholics my dad though was catholic was not a big fan of church every week usually my mum was an atheist (or however it is spelt)
i didnt baptise my daughter after she was born as i hadnt been to church since i was like 13 regularly christmas eve mass is only time i ever go really .. so i have allowed her to decide if she wishes to become catholic or not

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Edited by: cyg Nov 15, 07, 02:52 #96

Quoting: z_darius

Could those possibly have identified themselves as Catholics only because their parents baptised them?

I think it's mostly peer/family pressure. I can't see how you could otherwise consciously call yourself a Catholic without believing in God. Unless of course its just a knee-jerk reaction.
I would really like to see an in-depth study of what Polish Catholics believe, because I have a feeling it doesn't have very much in common with official Church doctrine.

jareck8

Nov 15, 07, 06:02 #97

religion is on the decline yes, but thats because we have not understood the spirit of religion, we are focusing on traditions and have moved away from the basics,,, our guide - jesus christ taught us about the lord.. we have moved away from this basic idea and thats why religion is in turmoil. people dont beleive in the creator and the messgae of jesus christ is mixed, if we leave everyhting else in religion and come back to beleivign in our lord then we canget back on track.. materialism, communism or capitlaism will not benefit us in the future..

YogibearThreads: 1 Posts: 63 Joined: Oct 23, 07 ♂	Edited by: Yogibear Nov 15, 07, 06:13 #98
Quoting: iwona Reading some posts here I have impression that there is big decline of Catholic religion is Poland now. Is it true? I think the same is happening in The UK to. Well not just Catholism but The Church in general. People are starting to realise that its just recyceld Paganism anyway and are starting to think for themselves once more. Huuraaah!

KilklineThreads: 3 Posts: 894 Joined: Jul 23, 07 ♂	Nov 15, 07, 06:34 #99
re: Big decline of Catholic religion in Poland Maybe this will put an end to the gravy train that the Catholic clergy are enjoying in Poland. Living in a poor town and driving to work (the biggest building in town and stocked full of gold) in a 4x4 can be seen by some to be taking the p1ss somewhat. Especially when it those same poor locals who have paid for it.

jareck8

Nov 15, 07, 06:45 #100

Quoting: Yogibear

I think the same is happening in The UK to. Well not just Catholism but The Church in general. People are starting to realise that its just recyceld Paganism anyway and are starting to think for themselves once more.

Huuraaah!

i wouldnt say they are thinking by themsleves,, i would say in the UK the people have moved to a new religion - freedom, rationalism, science... what i mena is thta this dictates our life.. any new scientific eveience comes out it immediately gets published. the other day saying binge drinking is good for pregnant women..

we have so much confidence in rationalsim these days and becasue we think we can associate a reaosn with soemthing we beleive in it
we beelive in things that are only theories like darwin and the new guy who wrote the god deception... this is the nature of our environment,,, we are cmaterialistc consumners..thats why there is a huge shift in the worlds wealth.. poeple are dying of hunger in this develped world where footbalelers earn 40k a year.. no offence to footballers but it makes us wonder exactly how developed we are

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Nov 15, 07, 07:20 #101

Quoting: jareck8

i would say in the UK the people have moved to a new religion - freedom, rationalism, science.

-a false statement.

Religion maintains that there is a superhuman agency or agencies, usually involving devotional and ritual observances, and often containing a moral code governing the conduct of human affairs. Science does none of this.

Religion requires faith, science requires doubt.
Religion requires subservience, science requires you question.
Religion bases itself on ignorance, science on knowledge.

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Nov 16, 07, 08:41 #102

Quoting: jareck8

i wouldnt say they are thinking by themsleves,,

Unfortunately the majority are happy to sit infront of the TV and let that do it for them.

Quoting: jareck8

i would say in the UK the people have moved to a new religion - freedom, rationalism, science...

Our freedom is being eroded day by day and Science ( At least the close minded version ) is so far from the truth its laughable.

Quoting: jareck8

we beelive in things that are only theories like darwin and the new guy who wrote the god deception... this is the nature of our environment,,, we are cmaterialistc consumners..

Darwins theory is flawed but if people want to think they crawled out of a pond thats up to them. Yes, people do consume and it's taking it's toll on the planet. Its a classic example of take, make and throw away society and it can't go on and sustain itself. This has derived that materail possesions leads to happines. It does not and like most hings in the physical world it's a myth and an illusion. Fortunately people are starting to see through this.

Quoting: jareck8

poeple are dying of hunger in this develped world where footbalelers earn 40k a year.. no offence to footballers but it makes us wonder exactly how developed we are

I know and it's a shame. 20% of the worlds population lives of 80% of the worlds resources leading to 80% of the worlds population living of 20%. This is wrong! As Gandhi said there is enough in the world for everyone but not everyones greed.

Quoting: Kilkline

superhuman agency or agencies,

I personally believe that there is a non human intelligence at work. Call it what you will.

Quoting: Kilkline

Religion requires faith, science requires doubt.
Religion requires subservience, science requires you question.
Religion bases itself on ignorance, science on knowledge

I understand what you are trying to say but when people started to see through religion along came modern science to control people. As for science requiring my question the questions that I want to know science is still no nearer to answering them. How can science find the truth of what and who we are when it only believes in the 3rd dimension or the physical world. This makes me laugh!

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Nov 16, 07, 08:58 #103

Quoting: jareck8

we beelive in things that are only theories like darwin

First, who is "we"? I don't believe in Darwin's theory. I analyze it and decide for myself if I can accept it as true base on evidence presented.
Second, "theory" in science does not mean something untrue or unproven. Actually, theory (in science) is often equalt to fact. For instance, what Newton concluded in his research is called "Newton's theory of universal gravitation". So as a theory, does it mean that apples will no longer fall to the ground from the tree?

Quoting: Yogibear

How can science find the truth of what and who we are when it only believes in the 3rd dimension or the physical world. This makes me laugh!

I'm lost. Could you elaborate?

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Nov 16, 07, 09:57 #104

Quoting: z_darius

I'm lost. Could you elaborate?

Modern Western Science only believes in the physcial world when there is more to life than this physical existence and this dimension.

Therefore, how can they find the answer that many, many people want to know. Who Am I? What are we/I doing here ? Is there a soul? Is there a God? What after this life if anything?

So if Modern Western Science continues only to believe in this world is all there is there will never find the answers to the above.

I persoanaly believe though that during this great time of change on our planet and our solar system a lot shall be revealed for those who want to know.

♂

Nov 16, 07, 10:48 #105

Quoting: Yogibear

Modern Western Science only believes in the physcial world when there is more to life than this physical existence and this dimension.

Yes, that's what science does. It deals with the physical world (since time zero + Planck time) and its known 4 dimensions (not 3). While there may be more to life than the physical aspect, it's not science's job to deal with that.

Quoting: Yogibear

Therefore, how can they find the answer that many, many people want to know. Who Am I? What are we/I doing here ?

Again, it's not a scientist's job to provide you with those answers. It's your job.

Quoting: Yogibear

Is there a God? What after this life if anything?

As defined in most religions, God is not, nor can it be an object of science since it is not considered a physical entity. Don't look for answers in science. As for life itself, again, it's your job decide what it is and what its meaning is to you.

Quoting: Yogibear

So if Modern Western Science continues only to believe in this world is all there is there will never find the answers to the above.

Science makes no promises that all questions will be answered, especially that many questions cannot be even predicted. Some religions fill the void, but there is absolutely no scientific proof they are right or wrong in general. There is evidence that some claims found in religious text are true, but there also more than ample evidence that other claims made in those texts are completely false.

Quoting: Yogibear

I persoanaly believe though that during this great time of change on our planet and our solar system a lot shall be revealed for those who want to know.

First, you have the right to believe whatever you want, but the fact that you believe in something doesn;t make it so. Even if 1 billion people believe in something, that too, doesn't make it so by the sheer fact the belief exists.

But you are correct that "a lot shall be revealed" to "those who want to know", and perhaps to those who want to belive.

You still didn't explain what you meant by the 3rd dimension.

PolanglikThreads: 40 Posts: 883 Joined: May 16, 07 ♂	Nov 17, 07, 07:51 #106
I was reading somewhere that since Poland entered the EU and the fact that so many Poles have come across to the UK , there has been a considerable rise in church attendances in the Parishes where Poles have settled. Are these Poles going to church because of their faith and to worship God, or is it just a good meeting place for Poles ?

celinskiThreads: 83 Posts: 2,800 Joined: Nov 14, 07 ♀	Nov 17, 07, 11:38 #107
Judge not least we be judged. LOL It can be in your heart without being in the house of the lord. Carol

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Nov 19, 07, 17:13 #108

The problem with Roman Catholicism is that it has become a Church of Pharisees, who
substitute traditions of men for the word of God...but still. it is the Church of Jesus Christ
and should not be vilified for the actions of sinful priests and Vatican dandies...the Church needs to discern the 'signs of the times'...but, as I live in America, I can't speak about the Polish Church...hopefully it is reaching out to young people and thinking about
the future.

Christian2Threads: - Posts: 4 Joined: May 16, 08 ♂	May 16, 08, 19:20 #109
For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness but unto us which are saved it is the power of GOD 1 corintians 1:18

z_dariusThreads: 22 Posts: 5,091 Joined: Oct 18, 07 ♂	May 16, 08, 21:32 #110
joepilsudski: The problem with Roman Catholicism is that it has become a Church of Pharisees, who substitute traditions of men for the word of God.. Unless you spoke directly with god, how would you be able to tell?

Christian2Threads: - Posts: 4 Joined: May 16, 08 ♂	May 17, 08, 08:25 #111
Jesus saith I am the way the truth and the life no man cometh unto the Father but by Me. John 14:6

z_dariusThreads: 22 Posts: 5,091 Joined: Oct 18, 07 ♂	May 17, 08, 08:47 #112
Christian2: Jesus saith I am the way the truth and the life no man cometh unto the Father but by Me. John 14:6 And you heard him say that?

Christian2Threads: - Posts: 4 Joined: May 16, 08 ♂	May 17, 08, 19:04 #113
For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness, But unto us which are saved it is the power of God. 1 Corinthians 1:18

dtaylorThreads: 15 Posts: 992 Joined: Sep 15, 07 ♂	May 17, 08, 19:15 #114
Christian2: For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness, But unto us which are saved it is the power of God. 1 Corinthians 1:18 yawn

z_dariusThreads: 22 Posts: 5,091 Joined: Oct 18, 07 ♂	May 17, 08, 21:42 #115
Christian2: But unto us which are saved it is the power of God. 1 Corinthians 1:18 pfft. And the Lord was with Judah; and he drove out the inhabitants of the mountain; but could not drive out the inhabitants of the valley, because they had chariots of iron. Judges 1:19

grethomoryThreads: 2 Posts: 212 Joined: Mar 19, 08 ♂	May 26, 08, 23:50 #116
z_darius: And you heard him say that? LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL, hahahaha, good one

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May 28, 08, 00:49 #117

Polish catholicism was a mix of spirituality and nationalism and in a true sense Poles were not much religious. We should be grateful for that. One needs only to be reminded that suicide bombers and ones who caused the World Center collapse were very religious people. Your super religious president is also praying almost all the time, except when he signs orders to torture people. Attending the Sunday mass was a more of the social gathering and occasion to exchange information (gossip). Nobody I know had a Bible. Serious studying it required knowledge of Latin, the only person I know who was reading it was my grandmother. In the pre 1989 era the church was the only organization able to express independence from the regime, providing support and organization for the opposition. My parish church was St. Stanislawa Kostki na Zoliborzu - quite politicized and later famous because of Ks. Popieluszko (Jacek and Felek Kuron lived in the apartment house accross from the church). Throught the Polish history the Polish Catholic Church was an anchor of stability and allowed us to regain independence, for that reason alone it should be revered.

sylviagarciaThreads: 1 Posts: 16 Joined: May 25, 08 ♀	May 28, 08, 05:04 #118
amen to that.

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May 28, 08, 05:40 #119

Religion can serve a purpose when used like a set of rules....but, in this day and age can't we agree to rules on the strength of morality and ethics?
Do we really need the superstition of religion?
Even when it's the most deeply ingrained superstition of them all, one of the major religions.

The Pope was the head of the Holy Inquisition (under the new name/rebranding)before becoming Pontiff.
Putin was a leader of the KGB.
George Bush Senior was the main man in the CIA.

It makes me wonder whether power ever really shifts or simply superficially changes form to gain acceptance in an age of 'people power'?

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Jun 15, 08, 14:15 #120

ArcticPaul:

It makes me wonder whether power ever really shifts or simply superficially changes form to gain acceptance in an age of 'people power'?

Amen, ArticPaul. Religion is the worst thing that can ever happen to a people. Having faith is totally different or believing in something greater than yourself...but I am not religious at all. There are too many factions who all believe "we" are right...The Baptist don't like the Catholics...Christians don't like Muslims, etc....Religion is man made and the core of evil. Slavery was even justified in the United States because of so-called religion

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