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Why is cheating at schools in Poland accepted?!


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zetigrekThreads: 59
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Edited by: zetigrek  Aug 4, 10, 10:30    #121
Cheating around the world:
http://forum.wordreference.com/showthread.php?t=25653

In our school (German high school), it's common to cheat.

(Germany)

So, in order to get what they want, I regret to say, a lot of people in Mexico cheat.

(Mexico)

Here is very common to cheat. All my classmates do that, but I don't. I'm a good student.

(Argentina)
In high school we were experts at it. Now, in college, I condemn it. I'd rather get an F than cheat.

(USA)

Yes, I did it a couple of times when I was in school, and tried once when I was at the university but I got caught shame on me!!!!

(Peru)


I try not to cheat at school, but sometimes you can't help it, like when someone accidentally says an answer aloud. One of my friends actually has a brilliant method of cheating. He writes the answers on his ankle, and covers it up with his sock, during the test he occasionally pulls down his sock and presto, there are the answers.

(USA)

In Italy many people do... it is really common.
In the last years of high school it changes..or so happened for my class.
The reason was that, as many of you said, it is just a bad thing for the student..
But, in my opinion, sometimes it can be acceptable.. some maths rules you can't remember for example...

(Italy)

I remember that a couple of years ago, a museum was opened in Spain (el museo de la chuleta, if I remember well), a museum dedicated to all kind of inventions created by pupills in order to cheat.
Anyone heard of it ?

Who would thought... ;D
Does anybody know this museum?

yes, cheating is very common here especially among enginering students. when i was in college, before the exams, i use a pencil to write the mathematical formulas that we are using on the cover of my scientific calculator. i just can't can't memorize all those formulas. i guess my brain is not meant for memorizing... ask me to do mathematical computations (especially logical computations, the 1's and 0's w/ the and, or , nor, xor, etc)all day but not to read a book or memorize..

(???)

Now that I'm in university, I'm shocked to find out that many people still cheat on assignments, if not tests.

(Canada)

I did, on my minor subjects so that I could concentrate on my major subjects. (For the record: I didn't have any intentions to cheat at all, its just that, my classmates were so generous that they would even share their answers ) (Am I cheating? Or I am just showing an acceptance of their offer)

(Philippines)

Speaking of cheating, it seems as though we have mainly been speaking about students' cheating. But, here, in the US, there is talk of teachers cheating as well.
With the enactment of the No Child Left Behind Act of 2001, (NCLB), many researchers and educators are stating that one unanticipated problem that came along with the Act is the "stretching" or cheating of teachers and admins in public schools. With standardized testing being a direct measure of whether the school will receive funding, or not, teachers and educators are finding (unfair) ways to keep their test scores high.

(USA)

SeanusThreads: 22
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 Aug 4, 10, 11:05    #122
Wow, some deflection again, that's sth new ;) ;) ;)

Cheating at schools in Poland will go on unless the authorities clamp down on it. It is a concern as it gives people a false sense of what they can do. In the end, you are only cheating yourself.
zetigrekThreads: 59
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 Aug 4, 10, 11:40    #123
Seanus:
Cheating at schools in Poland will go on unless the authorities clamp down on it. It is a concern as it gives people a false sense of what they can do. In the end, you are only cheating yourself.


Agree.
I posted these samples as it has pretty suprised me because I always thought that's really rare too cheat in other countries and everyone are really seriouse about it. Reading this thread I've just linked, I feel that I was pretty wrong and naive... the problem exists everywhere.

Seanus:
Wow, some deflection again, that's sth new


what does word "deflection" mean? You use it very often while my dictionary says its "ugięcie"... I don't get any sense...
SeanusThreads: 22
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 Aug 4, 10, 11:41    #124
You've answered the second part in the first, zeti :) :)
zetigrekThreads: 59
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 Aug 4, 10, 11:45    #125
Seanus:
You've answered the second part in the first, zeti :) :)

but still don't know what deflection mean... :(
frdThreads: 8
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 Aug 4, 10, 12:31    #126
Cheating everywhere will never cease to exist as long as there will be bad schooling systems and people of different idiosyncrasies. It's never "supposedly" accepted.
southernThreads: 116
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 Aug 4, 10, 14:29    #127
Just put cameras in exam places and analyze results statistically and cheating stops.American method guaranteed.
zetigrekThreads: 59
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Edited by: zetigrek  Aug 4, 10, 15:04    #128
southern:
Just put cameras in exam places and analyze results statistically and cheating stops.American method guaranteed.


I think that teaching little children that ściąganie is seriousely wrong would be enough... It's a fault of not enough strict teachers... actually no strict teachers are the greatest problem of polish education. They are underpaid so they don't have motivation to bring up kids... they just "teach" them the educational programme and no ethics...
SeanusThreads: 22
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Edited by: Seanus  Aug 4, 10, 15:10    #129
Deflection is where you divert attention away from the thread. Cheating is known in many countries and I can understand the kids doing it due to intense pressure.

We don't want to build a pressure valve like that seen in Japan. They have 'gogatsou byou' which translates as 'May illness'. Students jump off the bridge into the Dotombori river because they didn't get the grades they needed to gain entry to university. That may seem extreme but when a culture squeezes you like that, you either cope or buckle.
southernThreads: 116
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Edited by: southern  Aug 4, 10, 15:11    #130
In greek national exams if you get caught cheating your paper gets confiscated you get grade zero and you lose right to participate in the rest of the exams.Some students even proceeded to.minor operations to transplant microphone and headphobes under their ear lobe.
zetigrekThreads: 59
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 Aug 4, 10, 15:56    #131
Seanus:

We don't want to build a pressure valve like that seen in Japan. They have 'gogatsou byou' which translates as 'May illness'. Students jump off the bridge into the Dotombori river because they didn't get the grades they needed to gain entry to university. That may seem extreme but when a culture squeezes you like that, you either cope or buckle.


Yeah, I know if you lost job there is forest of suiciders... In Japan there is no visible poverty - not because it doesn't exist... it just that's a shame to be poor so they try to maintain ilussionary fine exterior as much hard as they can.

But Poland is different. Its more likely that there are too little expectations. Kids don't know how to learn in efficient way, they are not study in regular way and try to learn everything in the last minute. Some can make it while for others it's imposible so they cheat. But mind that even if you cheat, to pass a test you have to know something. So cheating is like 2 points more in the test, you won't pass it only by cheating... unless you know all the questions earlier.
SeanusThreads: 22
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 Aug 4, 10, 16:00    #132
Suiciders, that was a Bushism, zeti. Nice one :) It has a cool look to it :)

Yeah, past papers help but a lot of it is just guessing what will be in the test. The multiple choice papers always gave hope :)

Very true about the Japanese notion of kao/face. They have to be seen to be doing well and those that fall by the wayside really fall as their society is not the most forgiving ;)
zetigrekThreads: 59
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 Aug 4, 10, 16:18    #133
Seanus:
Suiciders, that was a Bushism, zeti. Nice one


you don't have any english equivalent for "samobójca"?
SeanusThreads: 22
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 Aug 4, 10, 16:22    #134
My wife seems to think that it's 'suicido' but we'd never say that in Britain. Pulled from the deeper recesses of something :)

Anyway, cheating? It happens.
rybnikThreads: 29
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 May 12, 12, 02:31    #135
I'm watching the Polish news and they're talking about how sophisticated the kids have gotten in their cheating on the Matura.
They text on Facebook, among other imaginative methods, looking for answers to problems! What's equally incredible is the fact that if caught in the act of ściąganie nothing really happens of consequence to the offender!
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 May 12, 12, 06:14    #136
rybnik:
What's equally incredible is the fact that if caught in the act of ściąganie nothing really happens of consequence to the offender!

The offender has to sit the exam again.
MeatheadThreads: 3
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 May 12, 12, 06:42    #137
rybnik:
I'm watching the Polish news and they're talking about how sophisticated the kids have gotten in their cheating on the Matura.
They text on Facebook, among other imaginative methods, looking for answers to problems! What's equally incredible is the fact that if caught in the act of ściąganie nothing really happens of consequence to the offender!


If you want to eliminate cheating get rid of education through testing. Tests are for the most part BS. They don't prove anything.
milkyThreads: 10
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 May 12, 12, 08:50    #138
Meathead:
If you want to eliminate cheating get rid of education through testing. Tests are for the most part BS. They don't prove anything.

very true
rybnikThreads: 29
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 May 12, 12, 14:46    #139
Meathead:
Tests are for the most part BS. They don't prove anything

[agreed
quote=pawian]The offender has to sit the exam again.[/quote]
Not much of a deterrent lol
pawianThreads: 90
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 May 12, 12, 19:17    #140
rybnik:
Not much of a deterrent lol



Yes, British and Australian schools apply harsher penalties:

For some major tests, such as GCSEs in the UK or NAPLAN in Australia, you may get all your test results cancelled if you are caught cheating. For example, if you were found cheating in a math test, you would get all your math marks taken away and also possibly in every other test such as English, geography, etc. The worst sanction is to be banned from all the exam boards for five years, which means no A-levels or university. (You can guess what that will mean when you start looking for a job.). Consequences for cheating in the Junior/Leaving Certificate in Ireland include being banned from state exams for five years.


It is a good solution and it might be useful in Poland too.
rybnikThreads: 29
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 May 12, 12, 20:07    #141
pawian:
It is a good solution and it might be useful in Poland too.

yes
pawian:
The worst sanction is to be banned from all the exam boards for five years, which means no A-levels or university. (You can guess what that will mean when you start looking for a job.). Consequences for cheating in the Junior/Leaving Certificate in Ireland include being banned from state exams for five years.

That's more like it!
natasiaThreads: 3
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 May 13, 12, 01:26    #142
The strongest deterrent in the UK is the strict indoctrination throughout childhood that:

- If you tell the truth, everything will be ok
- (and you must tell the truth)
- If you cheat in an exam, it is pretty much the worst and most shameful thing you could ever ever do ... you should do well on your own merits.

Believe it or not, that is why cheating was unheard of at my school. Apart from one American girl who wrote something on her hand, and none of us spoke to her much after that. She was tainted.

In Poland it is totally different, because of their geographical position. In Poland being able to cheat/to judge when it was ok to tell the truth or be honest without blindly trusting was ... a matter of life or death. We weren't invaded by Germans or Russians. The Poles were. They had to become who they are in order to survive. The cheating in schools is just one example of the heritage of an occupied-country mentality ... and people still live as if in times of war, in my opinion.

So, as a teacher in Poland, at first nearly having fainted when I had a classroom of English teachers doing FCE and all of them cheated (all), I have now learnt to understand, accept, and forgive ...
rybnikThreads: 29
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 May 13, 12, 02:33    #143
natasia:
Apart from one American girl who wrote something on her hand, and none of us spoke to her much after that. She was tainted.

So cold
pawianThreads: 90
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Edited by: pawian  May 13, 12, 08:32    #144
zetigrek:
I posted these samples as it has pretty suprised me because I always thought that's really rare too cheat in other countries and everyone are really seriouse about it. Reading this thread I've just linked, I feel that I was pretty wrong and naive... the problem exists everywhere.



Google and find tens articles like this one:

March 2012
Tens of thousands of students in universities across Britain have been caught cheating in exams and coursework – and the trend is on the rise, according to a investigation by The Independent on Sunday.
Over the past three years, more than 45,000 students at 80 institutions have been hauled before college authorities and found guilty of "academic misconduct" ranging from bringing crib-sheets or mobile phones into exams to paying private firms to write essays for them.
But officials last night warned they were fighting a losing battle against hi-tech advances – which means it is becoming increasingly difficult to detect the cheats.
Tessa Byars, an advice services manager at Anglia Ruskin University Students' Union, warned that advances in technology had made it "nearly impossible" for universities to keep up.


http://www.independent.co.uk/news/education/education-news/45000-caugh t-cheating-at-britains-universities-7555109.html


Hundreds of students from Clear Lake High School in Houston tried to pull a fast one on their teachers by texting one another answers to a final exam last month.

http://newsfeed.time.com/2012/01/07/200-houston-high-schoolers-caught- cheating-on-exam/


Experts are warning that the number of cheating teachers is also on the rise, both in UK and US :

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/education/secondaryeducation/8940781/Exam-b oards-how-examiners-tip-off-teachers-to-help-students-pass.html

http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Education/2011/0705/America-s-biggest-tea cher-and-principal-cheating-scandal-unfolds-in-Atlanta
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 May 13, 12, 09:14    #145
pawian:
Tens of thousands of students in universities across Britain have been caught cheating in exams and coursework


Don't make this about Britain!
I was in the first year where the English language exam was 100% coursework. One of my classmates had a private tutor who my classmate requested of him to get him a grade B. So the tutor wrote all his essays for him and got him his B grade.
More recently, an examining board was secretly filmed giving the questions that were going to be in a forthcoming final year exam to the school teachers on a plate. When the examining board cheat...
natasiaThreads: 3
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Edited by: natasia  May 13, 12, 09:49    #146
pawian:
March 2012

Statistics about who cheats are easy to find - yes, no doubt cheating is now rife in the UK as well, and yes, of course, naturally, coursework was an open invitation to parents and others to get A*s for the kids ... so that the exam results would look better (that's another story) ... but this question is about cheating being ACCEPTED. There is a fundamental difference between Poland and the UK in this. In the UK it is a shameful thing to do, however many do it. In Poland, how well you cheat is a badge of honour. So we should be discussing what it is in the Polish (and of course other European, but this is a Polish forum) mentality and national identity that makes cheating a sensible, clever, necessary skill. That is the interesting thing. And for that, I think, as I said before, we have to go back and look at what it was in the Polish environment that made this skill essential ...
ag19832007Threads: -
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 May 13, 12, 13:47    #147
this would never be allowed in the uk
ReservoirDogThreads: -
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Edited by: ReservoirDog  May 13, 12, 22:12    #148
In Poland, how well you cheat is a badge of honour.

You exaggerated....gently speaking ;). Only morons are proud because of that (cheating).
calgaryimmigThreads: 1
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 May 22, 12, 09:12    #149
oh, this is bad..
have you ever ask the school management 'bout this?
Ant63Threads: 5
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 May 22, 12, 09:49    #150
natasia:
There is a fundamental difference between Poland and the UK in this.


From my experience of court procedures in Poland it's as if it is embedded in Polish Law. You can lie endlessly in court, and even when your found out, you can continue the lie after lie approach. In a UK court when found out you would be torn to shreds by a barrister and humiliated, in "contempt" of court and pretty much finished from that point onwards as nobody could believe any further evidence. Of course it doesn't stop people. It's a natural defence but in Poland it reaches levels above and beyond our comphrension here.


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