Class system in Poland - does it exist?

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Nov 10, 10, 19:52 #31

zetigrek:

building buildings on inapropriate ground which eventually collapsed.

Most still up and running - for better or worse.

zetigrek:

yes! in PRL people were running own business!

This we know.

zetigrek:

So they did not get additional points and none of them was accepted for a faculty they wished to.

Rather proves my point - and this was normal across eastern Europe.

zetigrek:

in Poland they do.

I can assure you they do not.

zetigrekThreads: 59 Posts: 2,709 Joined: May 20, 10 ♂	Edited by: zetigrek Nov 10, 10, 19:59 #32
jonni: I can assure you they do not. how do you know that? jonni: Remember that throughout the PRL certain documents required people to state the social background of their parents - I had to, the first time I had a visa. Intelligentsia was one of the categories. So you live in Poland since 70s?

jonniThreads: 26 Posts: 4,181 Joined: Nov 27, 07 ♂	Edited by: jonni Nov 10, 10, 20:02 #33
I don't spend my whole life at a computer arguing with feckwits.

zetigrekThreads: 59 Posts: 2,709 Joined: May 20, 10 ♂	Nov 10, 10, 20:04 #34
jonni: feckwits. pardon me? I did not offended you. So why the hell do you offend me? (already twice)

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Edited by: jonni Nov 10, 10, 20:15 #35

zetigrek:

pardon me? I did not offended you. So why the hell do you offend me? (already twice)

On the scale of feckwittedness here, you don't even figure - you're one of the nicer posters - offence barely intended.

My point is that the class structure in Poland derives from education and the professions it often leads to - and the perceived behaviour of groups. An example. When I was back in Warsaw a week ago, I was invited to dinner twice. The first time was with a teacher, a nurse and a tax collector. The other time was with a vice-minister, a senior lawyer and an eminent doctor. Those two groups would not normally spend time together comfortably. I also had drinks with a supermarket worker whose partner is a pizza chef - they would have little to say to the first group and wouldn't normally meet them socially. That is life, and that is the Polish class system.

SeanBMThreads: 41 Posts: 8,727 Joined: Mar 10, 08 ♂	Edited by: SeanBM Nov 10, 10, 20:18 #36
jonni: More nonsense, and trolling too. I don't think so, so we'll just have to agree to disagree. jonni: That is life, That is indeed your life and the way you see it, I would say the way most english people see it but don't think we all see it that way.

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Nov 10, 10, 20:19 #37

" Class system in Poland - does it exist? "
So people start posting about Gorales, Warsawians etc., Thats like comparing Cockneys, Scousers, Brummies and Geordies. What the hell has inter-city rivalry got to do with classes ?
Social classes are found throughout the whole country, whether you,re a Gorale, warsawian or Silesian. Each have their lower class people, middle class people and upper class people. Education plays no part in these classes either. Some less educated people have made it big, when the higher educated have failed.
Anyway, my personal opinion is that Poland has a very poor lower class who possess next to nothing, a very wealthy upper class who want for nothing ( except more wealth ), and in between are left too many variable classes.

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Nov 10, 10, 20:22 #38

THE HITMAN:

Anyway, my personal opinion is that Poland has a very poor lower class who possess next to nothing, a very wealthy upper class who want for nothing ( except more wealth ), and in between are left too many variable classes.

This is close to my experience, though education (and consequent attitudes) play a huge part.

SeanBM:

That is indeed your life and the way you see it but don't think we all see it that way.

Fortunately sociologists often do.

southernThreads: 116 Posts: 10,959 Joined: May 17, 07 ♂	Nov 10, 10, 20:23 #39
There are no classes in Poland after communism.EU does not permit creation of oligarch style like in Russia,Ukraine.

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Edited by: SeanBM Nov 10, 10, 20:27 #40

jonni:

Fortunately sociologists often do.

Go on then, what do you mean? How is it fortunate and whose sociologist?

jonni:

a teacher, a nurse and a tax collector. The other time was with a vice-minister, a senior lawyer and an eminent doctor. Those two groups would not normally spend time together comfortably.

I don't believe that these "two groups" could not be friends and frequently socialise comfortably.

I think it is just a world view thing Jonni, to be honest.

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Edited by: zetigrek Nov 10, 10, 20:29 #41

jonni:

The other time was with a vice-minister, a senior lawyer and an eminent doctor. Those two groups would not normally spend time together comfortably. I also had drinks with a supermarket worker whose partner is a pizza chef - they would have little to say to the first group and wouldn't normally meet them socially. That is life, and that is the Polish class system.

look who was a vice prime minister in Poland:

wouldn't normally meet them socially.

I don't agree with that statement. In Poland there was no private schools during PRL so everyone was attending one public school together. And yes those nurse, pizza chef and a layer have very great probablity they meet togheter every 5 years on their school reunions.

Note also that in Poland besides Warsaw there are no better or worse districts. In one apartment can live a layer, a doctor and a coal miner.

My school friend was attending to one school with daughter of prime minister - Marysia Belka. It was when her father was nominated on that position. The school was absolutely ordinary (XXVI Liceum Ogólnokształcące w Łodzi). I was attending also to one class with a son of former chef of KRRiT (he was also a taxi driver in the past) and a neese of Wojciech Olejniczak.

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Edited by: jonni Nov 10, 10, 20:29 #42

SeanBM:

I don't believe that these "two groups" could not be friends and frequently socialise.

Everyone can be, but most of us don't - that's what class is about, isn't it.

zetigrek:

look who was a vice prime minister in Poland:

I can assure you it wasn't him.

zetigrek:

Note also that in Poland besides Warsaw there are no better or worse districts

This is simply not true.

zetigrek:

In one apartment can live a layer, a doctor and a coal miner.

They each have rather different purchasing power!

zetigrek:

My school friend was attending to one school with daughter of prime minister - Marysia Belka

Her parents are both charming people - very friendly, and don't take the trappings of prestige for granted.

SeanBMThreads: 41 Posts: 8,727 Joined: Mar 10, 08 ♂	Nov 10, 10, 20:33 #43
jonni: Everyone can be, but most of us don't - that's what class is about, isn't it. I put inverted commas on the "two groups" because these are your groupings not mine. That's all I have to say, call me nonsensical and a troll all you want, it won't change what either of use believes.

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Edited by: zetigrek Nov 10, 10, 20:40 #44

jonni:

This is simply not true.

true true. Visit Łódź if you don't believe me.

jonni:

They each have rather different purchasing power!

but they live together. I can give you examples.

Good example is my family. Even though my father is an engineer, he was running his own business in 90s and first half of 2000s. His business stopped to be profitable and he woke up being 50-something without job. No one wanted to hire a person who is more than 45 years old, his education has outdated... so he was for some time unemployed. He had to take up some odd jobs - he was even a janitor for some period of time!

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Nov 10, 10, 20:43 #45

zetigrek:

true true. Visit Łódź if you don't believe me.

I know it well - the good parts and the bad.

zetigrek:

but they live together. I can give you examples.

Good example is my family. Even though my father is an engineer, he was running his own business in 90s and first half of 2000s. His business stopped to be profitable and he woke up being 50-something without job. No one wanted to hire a person who is more than 45 years old, his education has outdated... so he was for some time unemployed. He had to take up some odd jobs - he was even a janitor for some period of time!

But does this affect ones perceptions about ones social class? I suspect barely so! Does it affect the perceptions of others? That's the key.

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Edited by: zetigrek Nov 10, 10, 20:45 #46

jonni:

the good parts and the bad.

the good parts? so where are the good parts of Łódź? I live in Łódź whole my life and don't know them...

jonni:

But does this affect ones perceptions about ones social class? I suspect barely so! Does it affect the perceptions of others? That's the key.

well yes. The janitor you think is a illiterate simple man can be someone who graduated university...

.............................................................

Look on osiedle Manhattan or Retkinia where people of every walk of life live togheter.

dtaylor5632Threads: 49 Posts: 4,459 Joined: May 2, 09 ♂	Nov 10, 10, 20:55 #47
zetigrek: the good parts? so where are the good parts of Łódź? I live in Łódź whole my life and don't know them... Exactly...

zetigrekThreads: 59 Posts: 2,709 Joined: May 20, 10 ♂	Edited by: zetigrek Nov 10, 10, 21:01 #48
dtaylor5632: Exactly... Exactly? David you was in Łódź only once, probably seeing just Piotrkowska street...

dtaylor5632Threads: 49 Posts: 4,459 Joined: May 2, 09 ♂	Nov 10, 10, 21:06 #49
zetigrek: Exactly? David you was in Łódź only once, probably seeing just Piotrkowska street... I've never been to Lodz, but met plenty of people who came from there.

zetigrekThreads: 59 Posts: 2,709 Joined: May 20, 10 ♂	Nov 10, 10, 21:10 #50
dtaylor5632: plenty of people who came from there. are they so bad? ;>>>

dtaylor5632Threads: 49 Posts: 4,459 Joined: May 2, 09 ♂	Nov 10, 10, 21:11 #51
zetigrek: are they so bad? ;>>> In the mantra of Seanus, some were some weren't.

David_18Threads: 111 Posts: 1,212 Joined: Jan 4, 07 ♂	Nov 11, 10, 01:33 #52
dtaylor5632: Exactly... Łódź got plenty of awsome places...

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Nov 11, 10, 06:11 #53

zetigrek:

Even though my dad has title of engineer and master, I don't consider him as an intelligent man. He was very dilligent and hard working that's why he fairly achive those degrees but he was always lacking of creativity, manners and cultural knowledge. He is quite boorish. He is not a kind of person who'd be able to invent anything or solve a great problem.

If he's an engineer he's intelligent. That's a tough curriculum. You're confusing temperament with intelligence.

A JThreads: 19 Posts: 4,639 Joined: May 21, 10 ♂	Edited by: A J Nov 11, 10, 06:30 #54
dtaylor5632: In the mantra of Seanus, some were some weren't. It is, and it isn't, isn't it? xD

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