If I'm agnostic, deist, atheist - can I say that to Polish people in Poland?

rozumiemnicThreads: 4 Posts: 1,026 Joined: Nov 16, 09 ♀	Nov 12, 11, 13:28 #31
calcedonia: Im 100% feminist, If women controld the world never be war,I ZIMMY! Quick!

southernThreads: 116 Posts: 10,959 Joined: May 17, 07 ♂	Nov 12, 11, 13:30 #32
rozumiemnic: ZIMMY! Quick! Zimmy will come with his machine gun.

♂

Nov 12, 11, 15:04 #33

rozumiemnic:

ZIMMY! Quick!

southern:

Zimmy will come with his machine gun.

My battalion of female Amazon warriors would quickly put a lie to the naive notion that women are peaceful creatures. Even my personal assistant Magda refuses to ovulate.

As to the false notion that women would not start wars (first propagated by feminists in the '60's), just off the top of my head (but not the bottom of my feet), here is a partial list of women who have done just that.

The female saint and duchiss of Poland Hedwig led an expedition to Ruthenia to re-establish Polish rule there.
Catherine the Great sent armies to fight several countries (including Poland).
Maria Theresa of Austria annexed large parts of Poland during the partitions.
Queen Tamara of Georgia who fought several wars usually against the Turks.
Golda Meir was no wall flower either.
Empress Matilda (England) and her forces defeated and captured King Stephen at the Battle of Lincoln which gave her the throne.
Kahina, (Jewish) Led the Berbers against Muslim Arabs.
Ana de Sousa Nzinga Mbande led her tribe in Africa & fought against the Portuguese.
Wu Zetian (China) became a ruler after ruthlessly killing off anyone who stood in her way.
The amazing ruler Sammuramat of Assyria not only led armies but even fought in battle.
Can anyone deny Queen Victoria's extreme British expansionist foreign policies?

The percentage of female rulers who started wars and/or fought for dubious reasons is comparable to the percentage of male rulers who have. The quantitative differences are reflected in the fact that there have been many more male rulers.

Although not known for starting wars, a personal favorite is Countess Elizabeth Bąthory who was known to partake in many dubious 'life-giving' blood bath rituals. Fortunately, the cosmetics industry never picked up on this elixir.

♀

Nov 12, 11, 16:38 #34

Natasa:

woman in politics is a man in disguise.

100% agree

Even the so called gender equality and feminism are really male in nature - it's not appreciation or understanding of what femininity really represents, but rather a desire to strangle and destroy femininity by making women to think and act like men, being equal to men by being the same as them

A world govern by women would be something completely different in structure than the man's world. Governments and hierarchy are traits of the man's world

calcedoniaThreads: 11 Posts: 126 Joined: Sep 20, 11 ♂ [Suspended]	Nov 12, 11, 17:00 #35
Zimmy how many exemple can you give more 100,1000 more? If I start to write all men ,do you think forum is enough for all this information? if you want give 10.000 exemple more still %5 women. you cant go more.

♂

Edited by: med Nov 12, 11, 23:49 #36

calcedonia:

Yes I read all message,and no one asked why you dont belive? Its the diffrent,realy if poland religious like this I think super,because ofcourse if you say about you are atheist,deist,agnostic in Turkey ,they ask why dont believe,''ofcourse in saudi arabia,pakistan,afganistan,iran even you cant say'',in Turkey you can say but they asked you like you are alien and you dont have right,they treat you like you are stupid and they try to proof something but they educated noting when you start to proof or not proof something , explain to you dont belive they start to be angry,they thing they little education chanced my mind,and convercation finish,I prefer for future Turkey will be at least %50 agnostic like sweden,estonia and czech republic and japan.I would like to see atheist president of turkey,agnostic prime minister of turkey,but they will declare not hiddenley.I dont say no more religion because must to be you can never forced like communist regimes,but 98% muslim false record. As I know many people agnostic in Turkey specialy west after they put on IDs religion muslim,and count %98 muslim,and why one goverment write on ID religion? Anyway in Turkey 2 july 1993 religious people made ''sivas massacre'' entellectual people had some seminar in hotel they were agnostic mostley,most famous writer ''Aziz Nesin'' in head of conferance ,fanatic religious people attack and hotel start to fire 1500 people start to out of hotel 37 people cant run and they burned,who start this fire still fugitive ,when people try to run of hotel they didnt let they let them burned live.Goverment didnt stop this massacre.They did for save religion of agnostics,yeah right. Anyway I give some exemple some modern turkish girls answer some religious tv speaker questions, she answer but stupit guy forced her and didnt understand. Maybe you understand me well. sorry for my english.

wow this girl is quite dogmatic. Why is she so concerned about whether or not these women show their religious affinity or not just by wearing the headscarf. Everyone wears what they see fit and what they like, why don't we start saying "I don't want to know what's your favorite color, so don't wear this tshirt that has your favorite color". or, why is she too showing her admiration to Che Guevara by wearing his tshirt?
Nobody pointed a gun at you and told you to wear the headscarf, you don't like it, don't wear it. Don't force others to not wear it.

EDIT: I was refering to the girl in this video.
Btw, I never heard of this incident that you mentioned, but seems like early 90s were full of religious scumheads in the entire muslim world, same thing happened in Algeria buy the FIS (the Islamist party) and here in Tunisia by Ennahda (who now won the elections lol)

♂

Nov 12, 11, 23:59 #37

The only bad religion is extremism

Most people in Poland will not have problems with you being atheistic, as long as you don't rub it in everyone's face, because nobody likes that. In fact, Poland is a lot more atheistic compared to countries such as USA or United Kingdom. As in every country in the world, there will be some people who are bothered by that, and that is completely normal, because you cannot expect every person in the world to tolerate you, unfortunately

♂ [Suspended]

Nov 13, 11, 00:15 #38

Ironside:

Sonny, ancient Slavs wouldn't call their children names of their deities out of respect for said deities. Go and play you ignorant goon !

what about catholics who use names like Jésus and Zeus, or even Maria for that matter...?

anyway..

first son's name will, of course, be Swietowit (after Świętowit), first daughter Ziwia (after Żiwia), 2nd son will be Piorun, 2nd daughter Marzanna...
I have a looooong detailed list of the names, in the order I will be using them lol... I plan on having many, many kids. >:D .. I will even throw in the name Jaga (after my favourite, Baba Jaga) ^__^... of course, they will all have English or Polish middle names, which they can use during their school times, and amongst friends and such.

♂ [Suspended]

Nov 13, 11, 01:15 #39

mad you are wrong, they can wear headscarf in everywhere in Turkey ,western Turkish and Agnostic Turkish even they dont like but never say anything all streets they can walk but eastern Turkey women go with miniskirt or girls go hair like that girl,tatoo and piercing or che guevara tshirt and in street people let them walk? All islamic they come europa and they say we have right what we wear and they walk with headscarf and if you go islamic country with miniskirt or without headscarf they let you walk in street? But problem is Turkey religion is not christian ,in Turkey islam but some people try to leave modern, some say no you cant change religion what goverment or western want. No if you talking about headscarf freedom you dont feel if will be no freedom for no headscarf covered people, you dont feel this fear and you talking about freedom very easy. That girl was right maybe how many times people bother her in street you dont know this, headscarf is normal but hippi look no right?

NatasaThreads: 7 Posts: 2,611 Joined: Jun 6, 10 MEMBER ♀	Nov 13, 11, 10:36 #40
Calcedonia, your posts are even less readable than mine, they demand, as much as mine special reading skills, some sort of superlexia - counter dyslexia :) Try with dots, big letters, shorter sentences. Concise, precise, relevant ;) stop the earth i want to get off

IronsideThreads: 59 Posts: 6,789 Joined: Feb 26, 09 ♂	Nov 13, 11, 11:09 #41
ShAlEyNsTfOh: of course, they will all have English or Polish middle names, which they can use during their school times, and amongst friends and such. Of course but thats cheating. ShAlEyNsTfOh: what about catholics who use names like Jésus and Zeus, or even Maria for that matter...? Jesus ? No in Poland no! Maria is not God.

♂

Nov 13, 11, 19:31 #42

calcedonia:

mad you are wrong, they can wear headscarf in everywhere in Turkey ,western Turkish and Agnostic Turkish even they dont like but never say anything all streets they can walk but eastern Turkey women go with miniskirt or girls go hair like that girl,tatoo and piercing or che guevara tshirt and in street people let them walk? All islamic they come europa and they say we have right what we wear and they walk with headscarf and if you go islamic country with miniskirt or without headscarf they let you walk in street? But problem is Turkey religion is not christian ,in Turkey islam but some people try to leave modern, some say no you cant change religion what goverment or western want. No if you talking about headscarf freedom you dont feel if will be no freedom for no headscarf covered people, you dont feel this fear and you talking about freedom very easy. That girl was right maybe how many times people bother her in street you dont know this, headscarf is normal but hippi look no right?

Okay I understand (at least I think I do) but this is normal imo. Man, Tunisia is such a tiny country, and if you go with the same clothes to two different cities that are 20km away from each other, you'll get different reactions i'm telling you. Same thing when it comes to the mentality of people living in the capital/coast and the rest of the country. Let alone a country as big as Turkey which has one part in Europe. How don't you expect such "clash"? This is normal. It's not related to religion, it's related to culture, education, socio-economic class, mentality and how people were raised and all these factors that shape one's opinion.
Anyways, just my two cents here. and btw, Istanbul is such a lovely place that i'll definitely visit again as soon as possible.

♂ [Suspended]

Nov 13, 11, 20:47 #43

med; you cant compare tunusia and turkey, tunusia arabic country and over there hot ,they can wear like arabic costume but in Turkey not about culture, whos cultures? I seen in street front of restaurant people wear old historic polish costumes,and if its cultures now people must wear and walk in the street? First sorry for my english Im sure terrible but I try to write anyway I hope you can understand,and in Turkey this headscarf absolutely politic, not culture .We dont have culture like that, 75 years ago destroyed that culture.Islamic country they let people walk in street without headscarf? NO, and who wear headscarf in Turkey them mentality same like other countries headscarf rules.

OldyoungloonThreads: 3 Posts: 38 Joined: Jul 14, 08 ♂	Nov 13, 11, 21:58 #44
rozumiemnic: calcedonia: Im 100% feminist, If women controld the world never be war,I ZIMMY! Quick! nope but there would be mandatory mental torture for one week per month.

♂

Nov 15, 11, 16:18 #45

calcedonia
med; you cant compare tunusia and turkey, tunusia arabic country and over there hot ,they can wear like arabic costume but in Turkey not about culture, whos cultures? I seen in street front of restaurant people wear old historic polish costumes,and if its cultures now people must wear and walk in the street? First sorry for my english Im sure terrible but I try to write anyway I hope you can understand,and in Turkey this headscarf absolutely politic, not culture .We dont have culture like that, 75 years ago destroyed that culture.Islamic country they let people walk in street without headscarf? NO, and who wear headscarf in Turkey them mentality same like other countries headscarf rules.

calcedonia:

med; you cant compare tunusia and turkey, tunusia arabic country and over there hot ,they can wear like arabic costume but in Turkey not about culture, whos cultures? I seen in street front of restaurant people wear old historic polish costumes,and if its cultures now people must wear and walk in the street? First sorry for my english Im sure terrible but I try to write anyway I hope you can understand,and in Turkey this headscarf absolutely politic, not culture .We dont have culture like that, 75 years ago destroyed that culture.Islamic country they let people walk in street without headscarf? NO, and who wear headscarf in Turkey them mentality same like other countries headscarf rules.

Well, I'm not sure if Tunisia deserves to be labeled as an Arabic country or not, we have mixes of Arabs, Persians, Europeans, Moors and Turks (like me) roots here, thus there is a diversity in culture. You can see it in language, food, customs, dresses etc.
I understand that it is not (solely) about culture but about politics, same here in Tunisia, or at least, we're going in that path (unfortunately).

♂

Edited by: Olaf Nov 16, 11, 11:08 #46

I see very interesting thoughts here so I am replying profusely to most of them:

pawian:

But as I am a merciful Christian, I will do it to you under narcosis.

That's so not Christian of you;).

Ironside:

Lets face facts dude, you cannot comprehend that its you who can be wrong as God's existence cannot be proved but it cannot be proved that God doesn't exist either.
You are dumb because you are unable to understand and comprehend that simple fact.

You just wrote that the chance is 50-50 or similar. I have no problem with that whatsoever. Personally, just looking around the world I think that everything points out that the chance is close to 0. You on the other hand you can believe it's 100% sure that god exists - and I have no problem with that either. I also have no problem with Harry Potter fans, I just have less to talk about with them because I like to talk about facts and certain things. It helps credibility and the reason for discussing. Religion is interesting (for me at least), that's all. But to observe and study - not to follow/believe. I would loose all perspectives if I choose to follow, and why would I do that?

a.k.:

I'm shocked with your answers.

I take it as a compliment. Thank you.

a.k.:

You claim that they're worse educated

Mostly, yes. Very often. Where is the strongest support and blind following of the RCC? Villages I think.

a.k.:

believe in fairy tales

And how do you call such stories? Immaculate conception, Noe's ark with all the animals, Adam & Lilith (that was actually cool!), then his second wife Eve giving start to mankind, Christ's resurection, Lazarus's resurection (for me it's a zombie thing, but hey, maybe I don't have enough faith for that), original sin, Half Blood Prince - oh, sorry wrong story, other "miracles", ten commandaments and all other things like that. It's just as believable as Voldemort's powers and shite like that.

a.k.:

How could you?

By the powers of mind and use of the Internet.

a.k.:

some spiritual faith or want to have a tradition they can relate with

Spiritualism has nothing to do with religion, it can be separate. And there are much nicer traditions too... your choice. On which I - and Johnny, or everyone can comment on. You commented on my posts too. I am not angry, even on Ironside, who lost his temper easily on me.

a.k.:

Isn't stereotyping a trait of uneducated and bigoted people?

I'd partially agree here, but I wasn't stereotyping - rather saying about stathistical majority. There are many exceptions too, which my views do not (or might not) not involve.

a.k.:

As for fairy-tales, those "fairy-tales" are sometimes needed for a psychological reasons. Imagine you talk with a terminaly ill person, would you have no heart and tell that person that there is no God and he is waiting for his ultimate end? Would you do that? If you did I'd say you're cruel person.

I already did that. If you respect this person, you say what you think, which in my case was: Grandma, I don't think there is anything more to life at all, as nothing suggests that. You are old enough to stop living in lies and false imaginations and there is never too late to start thinking instead of feeding youself with false promises and religious concerns. I hope there is no afterlife or I will be really dissapointed. We should take care of this life and not something we cannot be hoping for.
Believe it or not, she understood most of it and accepted my views. What she thought for herself is her own business, but maybe I opened her eyes, or induced some amount of critical thinking...

a.k.:

Personally I know two married couples composed of a Catholic and an atheist, so it seems there is no problem with accepting others' views even within marriage, so tell me why you can not accept it?

Accept what? Mixed religion couples? I never commented on them. Not my business. I have that situation in my family actually and I still think it was not my issue.

a.k.:

Some people need a hope

But hope is something different than false promises and fake imaginary friends.

a.k.:

It's just unclassy and wicket.

Now I feel abused and insulted.

a.k.:

I think it's a feature of an intelligent person to understand sociological phenomenoms and not to draw easy conclusions.

No, I do understand it and even more, it fascinates me. However, it does not refrain me from commenting on how it looks objectively, when you keep your feet on the ground firmly.

a.k.:

No, it's a toll of politics mainly and religion unfortunately isn't and never been free from politics. But it's not an idea which is wrong, it's just people who made wrong use of it.

Then why the heck even use it if "people are misinterpreting it" or "misusing in politics" etc.

a.k.:

Treat it less literal more metaphorical.

Yes, I heard that many times. Jonah living in a whale, and Noe's all species on ark are metaphors but scenes of murder, sodomy or incest are not (or they are inconvenient so let's also treat them metaphorically?). Can you rely with your life on a book that's mostly to be treated metaphorically as you say, but no one knows which parts are to be treated like this?

a.k.:

Religious people not always believe in all that.

Either they are Roman Catholics or not. You cannot be accepting half that you like and the other not fully. The RCC does not allow that. And people who do that (majority I suppose) don't have an understanding and sufficient knowledge of their own (supposedly) religion. How riddiculous. The more Christians read the Bible the more of them resign or at least start having serious doubts. But most of them haven't even read it, or other sources and yet they are blindly following - those I like to ridicule (on which you complain), as there is nothing in these respects I can admire or accept. If they treat religion as so important to them then why they know so little about their own religion, let alone others, to be able to compare, know what's better or worse - in all words: to have a BROADER view.

a.k.:

I heard about some surveys which exposed that most Catholics in Poland don't believe in hell.

So they know nothing about their creed! They should also believe in Satan, angels, archangels, hell, miracles, etc. You have no choice to pick parts you like in Catholicism! Who and whet do you fear if there is no hell and Satan???

a.k.:

They believe that God is so merciful that he forgives everyone.

That's creating their own religion. Catholicism does not leave room for your own interpretations. Either you follow or you're not Catholic.

HavokThreads: 14 Posts: 1,508 Joined: Mar 12, 10 MEMBER ♂	Edited by: Havok Nov 17, 11, 20:13 #47
calcedonia: Thank you Amathyst, realy women understand better,Im 100% feminist, You’re such a mangina dude. Anyway, The right to worship freely was a basic right given to all Polish people centuries ago. Nothing has changed in this regard since then. Poland has a long tradition of religious freedom.

POLAND . The Unofficial Guide	Unanswered \| Archives
POLAND . The Unofficial Guide	Meet Polish People at PF!	Witamy, Guest \| PF Members \| Gold Members

Home \| Unanswered \| Archives \| Random \| Statistics	Time in Poland: 04:16 / May 27
About Us \| Contact Us \| Rules, Privacy \| Poland Advertising	© 2005-12 PolishForums.com