My impressions on Poland I: The People, Politics, The Countryside and Infrastructure

POLAND . The Unofficial Guide

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Sep 16, 11, 22:10 #31

I think that vdondera by saying that seemingly Pink Floyd aren't popular here was really meant to be a metaphor for lack of nonconformism... You took it so literally :D

I understand what he was saying, but I think he was being silly...As far as music, there is a whole series on YouTube of the history of rock music in Poland from the 60s thru the 80s, in other words, throughout the communist era...I forget what it is called, but it is quite good, with a lot of footage of Polish musicians, and certainly these musicians were not mindless conformists.

I think many Westerners who visit Eastern European countries are spoiled by the plethora of material junk in the West, and can't really understand the spirit of those who lived through communism...They are quick to judge and underestimate people who lived through a different system.

pawianThreads: 90 Posts: 5,415 Joined: May 30, 08 ♂	Sep 16, 11, 22:18 #32
=a.k.]how do you know that? I am intelligent. ):):):) When I read sth like this: =vdondera]I speak four languages at least good enough to form sentences. Most of the Poles don’t even understand English I smell a rat. Don`t you? :):):)

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Sep 16, 11, 23:17 #33

I wonder if you mean by any chance ogródki działkowe?

hand on heart AK,the reason I guessed he meant those too was they fooled me on my first day in Poland, lots of shanty towns outside Katowice :):)

isn't isthatu2 an Englishman? ;)

well...sort of,but born...

the other side of hadrian's wall

But, we dont all demand everyone else learns English :) Some of us try speaking that foreign jibber jabber,just to be polite ;)

When you went on holiday to Egypt, did you learn Arabic first?

er,never been to eygpt....speak a dozen phrases of Arabic.... But, before I visited Poland I did try to learn the basics and certainly did not expect every tomek, darek and erm,harry to speak my language :)

a.k.	Sep 17, 11, 11:23 #34
Don`t you? :):):) Things what she (or he, but bet it's she) wrote, aren't all bad. Of course the first sentence sounds bit provocative and there are many misunderstandings in her story but look how many foreigners who visit Poland comes with a bit patronizing attitude...

a.k.	Sep 17, 11, 11:45 #35
she (or he, but let's assume it's she) Or maybe it's he not she. Nevermind.

SokratesThreads: 19 Posts: 4,464 Joined: Jan 19, 09 ♂ [Suspended]	Sep 17, 11, 11:57 #36
Trollish thread is trollish.

southernThreads: 116 Posts: 10,959 Joined: May 17, 07 ♂	Sep 17, 11, 12:58 #37
And I was dissapointed when no Poles spoke Greek.

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Sep 17, 11, 13:57 #38

It’s no wonder the Poles aren’t famous for their hippie movements – the youth, though talented and resourceful are incapable of defying their elders. That’s the reason why the Church has been dominating the country for millennia, or why the seats in trams are to be exclusively used by the elderly.

You need to work on History and Culture a bit : To be a rebel when the Polish State ideology under the Soviet rule was Atheism meant precisely to be a Catholic, young hippies in Poland beeing behind the Iron Curtain fiercely defended Christian religion because it meant freedom and rebellion.

As for the seats in trams to be exclusively used by elderly it is a question of good manners and it is a prcatical thing as you don't want someone over 90 to be driving and you don't want that same person to fall in the tram if it stops abrubtly.
If in the country you come from it is not a custom to leave seats for the elderly or the invalids, then you have no lesson to give in terms of civilisation.

beckskiThreads: 19 Posts: 2,148 Joined: May 15, 07 MEMBER ♀	Sep 17, 11, 18:19 #39
It’s no wonder the Poles aren’t famous for their hippie movements No Griffith Park or Hait & Ashbury in Poland. It would be interesting to see a handful of vintage Polish Hippy pics :) A sincere thanks PF, for putting up with me FIVE terrific years, muah!

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Sep 17, 11, 20:01 #40

Re vdondera views.
Just to recap on history, Poland lost her independence in 1795 and theoretically gained independence in 1918 although it had to fight the Bolshevick war until late 1920. In 1939 Germany+Soviet Russia attacked and overwhelmed her. In 1945 Communist take over until 1990. So in 206 years some 40 years on independence mostly rebuilding what others knocked down.
In the mean time, most Jews have some Polish connection due to 800 years historical liberal laws.
So V reads a 1930 guidebook, walks round Warsaw (when exactly was this?) and meets a grumpy old man and writes a brief jaundiced resume of Poland.
I've been to France and had a rubbish meal, so proving France is no gastonomic paradise, it rained most of my holiday in Spain, so don't go there for a tan, and in USA I was acosted by a black polieman, so the USA is a fascist state eh?

Just use your 4 langauges V and learn how to read situations from all perspectives and not just troll this forum.

Jan Przeniczny UK

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Edited by: boletus Sep 17, 11, 23:46 #41

vdondera
Your view of contemporary Poland, reinforced by your outdated 1931 guide, and quite possibly by some anti-Polish opinions coming from some circles of old German-Chilean population, misses the fact that Poles of Great Emigration of 19th century contributed much to development of Chile, Peru and Ecuador in terms of science and engineering, and who obviously spoke many languages, including Spanish, you ignoramus observer.

I will also add that many Polish scientists, researchers, travellers and explorers make their name in South America nowadays.

This is a short refresher course, so you might be better prepared before your next visit to Poland, if ever.

Have you ever heard of Ignacy Domeyko (1802-1889)? Polish geologist, mineralogist, mining engineer, explorer of South America. Who established first mining academy and laboratory Ecole de Minas in Coquimbo, Chile and taught there physics, chemistry, mineralogy and metallurgy - in Spanish, for God's sake - and also ran analyses of samples sent there from mines all over the country? Who was appointed by Chilean Government a Head Mining Judge - with powers of irrevocable adjudication? Who travelled all over Andes and discovered deposits of copper molybdenum, and copper arsenide - later named after him "domeykite"? Who prepared geological maps of Chile? Who became a president of university Santiago de Chile (1867-1883)? Do you know that one range of Andes - the Domeyko Mountains - is named after him, as well as several species of extinct animals, such as Chilean ammonite - Ammonites Domeykanas?

How about Edward Jan Habich (1835-1909), Polish engineer and mathematician, who devoted most of his later life to development of public works in Peru, who established and directed Escuela Especial Ingenieros Construcciones Civiles y de Minas del Peru (Higher School of Engineering and Mining of Peru)? And who has also participated in development of Chilean port Arica?

How about Edward Malinowski (1818-1899), Polish road and railway engineer, the hero of defence of Peruvian port Callao (against Chile), constructor of railways in Peru and Ecuador, designer and constructor of Ferrocarril Central Andido (Central Trans-Andean Railway) - a marvel of engineering at those times - the highest ever, with many bridges, shelves, etc. Who published extensively, and who was a member-founder of many engineering, geographic and benevolent societies?

Have you heard about Władysław Folkierski (father)(1841-1904), Polish mathematician and engineer, constructor of telegraphic lines in Peru, defender of ports La Punta and Callao during war with Chile (participating in building the fortifications), who developed railway system at Southern Peru, directed steam shipping on lake Titicaca, and taught in 1876-1885 in Lima university?

How about Władysław Kluger(1849-1884) - Polish construction engineer, traveller, anthropologist - who participated in construction of Trans-Andean railway, who built Tacna-La Paz road and many canals, directed an expedition to Peruvian Andes, directed anthropologic research at ancient cemetery in Ancon? Who taught in Escuela de Ingenieres Civilas y de Minas and was its president for a short time.

Add to this few others worthy to mention, engineers: Ksawery Wakulski, Adam Miecznikowski, Aleksander Babiński; biologists and travellers: Konstanty Jelski, Józef Siemiradzki.

In modern times many Polish climbing expeditions travel to South America, and they live behind not only the names of routes - such as Polish Routes to Aconcagua - one being Ruta del Glacier de los Polacos, established in 1934, but also experience, maps, surveys and mountain guide services.
As another example, Maciej Kuczyński, a member of Explorer Club - among many other daring achievements - was a leader of expedition to Andes of Peru and Chile, claiming the first ever ascent of Cerro Solo (6120 m).

Prof. Mariusz Ziółkowski led Polish-Peruvian archeological mission to Peruvian Andes, in 2007, which lasted two months and discovered most important Peruvian delphi Condesyous and Maucallacta in massive Coropuna (6425m), penetrating 2500 square kilometres to the glaciers level, localizing and describing many Inca settlements and administrative and ceremonial centres.

Polish scientists continue their work in hearts of Andes: in 2010 a Polish research centre has been opened in Cuzco, the ancient capital of Inca Empire.

As I had already reported somewhere else here, Polish astronomers conduct microlensing gravitational research in Las Campanas Observatory in Chile.

I will also mention in passing the Canoandes 79 expedition of students from Kraków, who ran many virgin rivers in Andes, including Peruvian Colca River - running wild in 3000-4000 metres canyon, the deepest in the word. They have named many parts of this river - one being named Canyon de los Polacos. Twenty years later they still do occasional exploration and also white water kayaking and rafting in North America. They have their website canoandes.com, where you can find several fascinating stories of theirs and about them - including a report (run in full in National Geographic) about two of them taking part in Jacques Coustoeau expedition, in 1986 I guess, along entire stretch of Amazon River - from its tiny sources to Atlantic Ocean. The kayaker Piotr Chmielewski was the main character. Books, BBC movie, guides in Spanish and English are part of their achievements. [I had a privilege to know two of them for quite some time, when they had become part of our recreational circle.]

DeBlondeThreads: - Posts: 4 Joined: Aug 7, 11 ♀	Sep 21, 11, 04:10 #42
pessimism must be your famous word, i was kind of shock to read this story.Polish people are sincere and kind. Little of optimistic i will send you a prescription for it!!!!!

heyou	Sep 21, 11, 16:27 #43
here the guidebook was a bit anti-semitic – powerful Jewish community, practically ruling over the major swaths of land. today, in 2011 things have changed a little – though the Jews are practically extinct. Another freak with some Jewish agenda . Read more about this agenda from this source : scribd.com/doc/50804043/Za-Polski-Samarytanizm-%C5%BBydowski-Terror-i- Bandytyzm

peterwegThreads: 35 Posts: 1,997 Joined: Feb 16, 07 ♂	Sep 21, 11, 18:47 #44
If in the country you come from it is not a custom to leave seats for the elderly or the invalids, then you have no lesson to give in terms of civilisation. He comes from a savage third world country, the concept of manners don't exist.

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