"Letter from Poland" - very important movie to watch

mateuszmThreads: 1 Posts: 4 Joined: Feb 27, 11 ♂	Feb 27, 11, 02:56 #1
"Letter from Poland" Please watch this film and get involved.

jonniThreads: 26 Posts: 4,181 Joined: Nov 27, 07 ♂	Edited by: jonni Feb 27, 11, 03:20 #2
There are two films called that. One about the Smolensk air crash and the other about the novelist who murdered someone then wrote about it. Which film do you mean?

mateuszmThreads: 1 Posts: 4 Joined: Feb 27, 11 ♂	Feb 27, 11, 03:29 #3
About event that change the Poland and the World

jonniThreads: 26 Posts: 4,181 Joined: Nov 27, 07 ♂	Feb 27, 11, 03:31 #4
Not more Smolensk stuff? It did not, in any way, change the world. It didn't really change Poland either, except for some temporary hysteria.

ShortHairThugThreads: - Posts: 1,377 Joined: May 1, 09 ♂	Feb 27, 11, 03:35 #5
jonni: It did not, in any way, change the world. But it did, Don’t know about you but I certainly view the world in different light since that tragedy.

mateuszmThreads: 1 Posts: 4 Joined: Feb 27, 11 ♂	Feb 27, 11, 03:38 #6
So you should read the novel. Peoples that like Poland should watch this film. It is very important. Sory for my english.

jonniThreads: 26 Posts: 4,181 Joined: Nov 27, 07 ♂	Edited by: jonni Feb 27, 11, 03:56 #7
ShortHairThug: I certainly view the world in different light Differently in what way? That accidents can happen, or that even if a planeload of VIPs die suddenly, things just carry on without much difference?

mateuszmThreads: 1 Posts: 4 Joined: Feb 27, 11 ♂	Edited by: mateuszm Feb 27, 11, 05:14 #8
Many people want to discredit this event. I think that the sudden death of generals, presidents and representatives of financial institutions is worthy of reflection and seriousness especially when someone says that it is boring or unimportant. Please watch this film.

jonniThreads: 26 Posts: 4,181 Joined: Nov 27, 07 ♂	Edited by: jonni Feb 27, 11, 05:32 #9
mateuszm: worthy of reflection In what way? Why mateuszm: get involved. ?

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Feb 27, 11, 10:42 #10

A lot of the hysteria and suspicion mongering about Smolensk is camouflage designed to distract people from one important detail (that needs to be repeated often)

There was NO EXCUSE (NONE!) to have all the military leaders on the same plane. Any idiot (except for the idiot who organized this disaster) should know this. It was negligent and borderline criminal of Kaczynski to allow such an appalling lapse in basic security. Had any of them survived they should have been court-martialed or prosecuted.

Even if there were smoking guns pointing at direct Russian involvement (which there aren't) there's no excuse for that.

delphiandomineThreads: 42 Posts: 9,954 Joined: Nov 25, 08 ♂ [Suspended]	Feb 27, 11, 12:21 #11
mateuszm: I think that the sudden death of generals, presidents and representatives of financial institutions is worthy of reflection and seriousness especially when someone says that it is boring or unimportant. Does the film contain scenes of how a drunken general seized command of a plane?

smurfThreads: 46 Posts: 660 Joined: Sep 8, 09 ♂	Feb 27, 11, 13:55 #12
mafketis: NO EXCUSE (NONE!) TYPING IN CAPITALS IS AWESOME, IT MAKES WORDS LOUDER :P but seriously there was an excuse, one plane is cheaper than 2 or 3, simples.

simonflaThreads: 5 Posts: 12 Joined: Feb 26, 11 ♂	Feb 27, 11, 20:35 #13
delphiandomine: Does the film contain scenes of how a drunken general seized command of a plane? Is that true???? I haven't read much about this crash..... Also, what's this I hear about the guy who filmed the plane just after it crashed? Something like there was gunfire heard on his video, and recently he died in suspicious circumstances?

jonniThreads: 26 Posts: 4,181 Joined: Nov 27, 07 ♂	Edited by: jonni Feb 27, 11, 20:39 #14
simonfla: Also, what's this I hear about the guy who filmed the plane just after it crashed? Something like there was gunfire heard on his video, and recently he died in suspicious circumstances? On a level with faked moon landings, Elvis living in Panama, aliens from Roswell in the White House and Camilla Parker Bowles cutting Lady Di's brake cables..

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Feb 27, 11, 20:43 #15

simonfla:

Is that true???? I haven't read much about this crash.....

What Blasik (the general in question) has been doing is starting to come out - and it's not pretty. It certainly looks like the story of him seizing command is true - and may hold the entire reason why the plane crashed.

simonfla:

Also, what's this I hear about the guy who filmed the plane just after it crashed? Something like there was gunfire heard on his video, and recently he died in suspicious circumstances?

Jonni puts it correctly.

Not worth even bothering with - the sole source of such information is a very unreliable website.

simonflaThreads: 5 Posts: 12 Joined: Feb 26, 11 ♂	Feb 27, 11, 21:34 #16
ah. i see. thanks for clearing that up guys. what's the black box situation?

mateuszmThreads: 1 Posts: 4 Joined: Feb 27, 11 ♂	Feb 28, 11, 02:20 #17
Many people want to discredit this event. General Błasik was one of the best in NATO. Media put into our heads that the pilot was drunk. He was the best pilot with many international awards.

MediaWatchThreads: 31 Posts: 1,306 Joined: Aug 30, 08 ♂	Feb 28, 11, 03:48 #18
delphiandomine: Does the film contain scenes of how a drunken general seized command of a plane? This is just more of your dirty speculation about what happened on the plane. There is NO evidence that a "drunken general seized command of the plane" or anyone else seized command of the plane. This is only a speculative notion that Russia has suggested, which you keep pushing.

mafketisThreads: 17 Posts: 1,880 Joined: Mar 31, 08 ♂	Feb 28, 11, 08:43 #19
mateuszm: Many people want to discredit this event. And many people are addicted to self-righteous victimization. mateuszm: General Błasik was one of the best in NATO. He agreed that all the Polish military leaders should be on a single plane. That fact alone disqualifies him as "one of the best in NATO".

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Edited by: Ziemowit Feb 28, 11, 11:38 #20

mateuszm:

General Błasik was one of the best in NATO.

I wonder what such an assumption is based on? As I contradicted in one of the earlier threads on the matter the accusations of Gen. Błasik put forward by Delphiandomine and Harry who repeatedly and with their Anglo-Saxon malicious joy were calling him 'drunken' with 0.6 pro mille of alcohol in blood while at the same time never wishing to openly admit that the drunk drive limit in the UK and Ireland is 0.8 pro mille, I would say that the state of affairs within the Polish Air Force prior to the Smoleńsk disaster was - as now slowly emerges from the own Polish official investigation - quite deplorable, if not one of chaos and one driven by incompetence as well as negligence of procedures.

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Feb 28, 11, 11:51 #21

mateuszm:

General Błasik was one of the best in NATO.

Media put into our heads that the pilot was drunk. He was the best pilot with many international awards.

If he was the best pilot, why did he either: allow the pilot flying the plane to go below all cleared mimimums without having eyes on the runway because of the fog; or fail to prevent the pilot who had eyes on the runway despite the fog bringing the plane down both short and wide of the runway?

Ziemowit:

the drunk drive limit in the UK and Ireland is 0.8 pro mille

Was the General:
a) driving a car in the UK / Ireland; or
b) commanding a Polish plane?

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Edited by: Grzegorz_ Feb 28, 11, 13:01 #22

Checking alcohol level in pieaces of body several days after death can never give fully trustful results, besides many Russian generals still rarely go down to 0.6, so Russians underlining again and again "drunkness" of Błasik are quite irritating (usual human s*its talking about it again and agian, that's not surprising thought), however It's obvious that vast majority of responsibility for this crash is on Polish side, so I don't know what we are "fighting" for... That idiot Tusk and his clowns again make us look like a bunch of muppets.

Harry:

If he was the best pilot, why did he either: allow the pilot flying the plane to go below all cleared mimimums without having eyes on the runway

Military people in general take pride in doing stupid things. That's why in my opnion the air force shouldn't operate the VIP flights, they should have airplanes and crews leased from LOT or If it has to be in military, they should have the same airplanes as LOT and crews should be trained the same way, pass the same tests and at best even serve as pilots on some civilian flights when there are no VIP flights in that period. That should guarantee the proper behavior. They've been treating these Tupolevs and Jaks as If they were MiGs.

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Feb 28, 11, 13:11 #23

Grzegorz_:

... besides many Russian generals still rarely go down to 0.6, so Russians underlining again and again "drunkness" of Błasik are quite irritating

That's what I was pointing out at. Brits legally driving with 0.6 and more and Russian generals rarely going down to 0.6 ... All this has made Harry and Delphiandomine having sleepless nights as a result of poor Gen. Błasik's 0.6 pro mille level.

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Feb 28, 11, 13:24 #24

Ziemowit:

Brits legally driving with 0.6

When will you ever stop comparing drink driving limits to being drunk on the job early in the morning?! These two can in no way be compared!!

And since he was drunk, the claim that he was

mateuszm:

one of the best in NATO

is also utter crap. He wouldn't have been able to last a day in Brussels or anywhere else outside of his own base, Ministry or whatever. We don't like drunken officers ... they tend to make very bad decisions indeed.

Grzegorz_Threads: 81 Posts: 6,213 Joined: Nov 16, 06 ♂	Feb 28, 11, 13:45 #25
Stu: is also utter crap. He wouldn't have been able to last a day in Brussels or anywhere else outside of his own base, Ministry or whatever. Eh ? Guy finished Staff Officers Orientation Course at Dutch Defensy Academy, studied at US Air War College, commanded various NATO excercises and got Legion of Merit. You got what ? Potato award ?

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Feb 28, 11, 13:48 #26

Stu:

When will you ever stop comparing drink driving limits to being drunk on the job early in the morning?! These two can in no way be compared!!

Who? Me? But it was Harry who compared drink driving limits to being drunk on the job early in the morning.

Polish Forums -> News, Politics -> Official pressured pilots -> Message #10
A man who was legal unfit to drive a car at the time the plane crashed.

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Feb 28, 11, 13:50 #27

mateuszm:

General Błasik was one of the best in NATO.

He was actually a political appointee and was more or less reliant on Kaczynski for his command - hence the severe case of "get-it-there-itis". Best in NATO? At what, making idiotic decisions?

mateuszm:

Media put into our heads that the pilot was drunk. He was the best pilot with many international awards.

No, the facts put it into our heads that he was a vulgar drunk with no sense of responsibility. What on earth was he doing ordering Protasiuk into that plane, and what was he doing in assuming command of the plane? There's plenty more where that comes from - Blasik was no hero.

MediaWatch:

There is NO evidence that a "drunken general seized command of the plane" or anyone else seized command of the plane.

Sorry MediaWatch, but there's video and eyewitness testimony, as well as the undeniable fact that Blasik reported to Kaczynski as the commander of the flight. Plenty of evidence - and this comes from the Poles, not from the Russians.

MediaWatch:

This is only a speculative notion that Russia has suggested, which you keep pushing.

Nothing to do with Russia. I don't see any evidence in the MAK report relating to Blasik's actions on the ground in Warsaw.

Ziemowit:

That's what I was pointing out at. Brits legally driving with 0.6 and more and Russian generals rarely going down to 0.6 ... All this has made Harry and Delphiandomine having sleepless nights as a result of poor Gen. Błasik's 0.6 pro mille level.

But the UK also judges 0.2 as being a criminal offence when flying a plane. Comparing apples and oranges is pointless - you can only compare apples with apples. And Blasik was drunk according to UK law, as well as Polish law.

The more I read, the more I feel sorry for the rest of the crew.

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Feb 28, 11, 13:51 #28

Ziemowit:

That's what I was pointing out at. Brits legally driving with 0.6 and more and Russian generals rarely going down to 0.6 ...

Was a Brit driving in this situation? Was a Russian general in command?

Ziemowit:

All this has made Harry and Delphiandomine having sleepless nights as a result of poor Gen. Błasik's 0.6 pro mille level.

Whether the General was drunk or not, he either: allowed the pilot flying the plane to go below all cleared mimimums without having eyes on the runway because of the fog; or failed to prevent the pilot who had eyes on the runway despite the fog bringing the plane down both short and wide of the runway. If he wasn't drunk, he must have been incompetent.

♂

Edited by: Stu Feb 28, 11, 14:00 #29

Nice try, Ziemowit ... . But you know as well as I do, that Harry meant to say that this guy had so much to drink that he wouldn't even be allowed behind the wheel of a car, let alone in the cockpit of an aircraft. I added back then (#49) that it was a scandal he'd been drinking while on the job and I told you what would happen to me when my Colonel catches me drinking while at work.

And it now seems that our general and the pilot had a slight altercation at the airport before departing.

Combining all these factors together, I think Blasik behaved very unprofessionally indeed and he wasn't

mateuszm:

one of the best in NATO

,

and I am extremely glad I don't see the likes of him in Brussels, Casteau, Geilenkirchen, Uedem, Ramstein or any other NATO-Base, thank you.

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Edited by: delphiandomine Feb 28, 11, 14:05 #30

Stu:

And it now seems that our general and the pilot had a slight altercation at the airport before departing.

Slight altercation...well, he only ordered him into the cockpit :D

I know people refuse to accept the psychological analysis of Protasiuk - but "a nice guy" is totally the wrong person to be flying such a plane, especially under such psychological pressure.

It would seem that perhaps the theory that the second pilot was waiting for Blasik's approval after the "go around" statement could be right.

Certainly, I hope that Blasik's actions in the hours before the flight are documented thoroughly - was he still drunk from the night before, was he drinking before the flight, was he drinking on the plane?

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