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Is parity the answer for Polish women?


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SeanusThreads: 22
Posts: 30,158
Joined: Dec 25, 07 ♂ 		 Dec 4, 11, 21:01    #241
SSM, I could say the same on your last point to Patty. Any answers to 234?
skysoulmateThreads: 41
Posts: 3,039
Joined: Jan 10, 10 ♂ 		 Dec 4, 11, 21:04    #242
aphro:
skysoulmate: I see, so it's ok to discriminate in the Polish parliament (uhm, uhm, spell check? ;)) but not in other workplaces? I see, it makes no sense to me but then again, I only do computer games.

it is not OK to discriminate anywhere, yet it happens all the time. If you want to spend time with the company of your choice it would not be the government office, nor a Parliament since the latter is not a social club. ( I can see Flagless coming up with some off the wall comment). That is all I meant.
What spell check? You must have it on American English most likely:D

Anyways, are you drunk?


Drunk? Where did that come from?? I said "spell check" since you poked fun at my spelling and then went ahead and misspelled the word Parliament, (a-missing), that's all. I guess you missed the smiley face?

As far as the rest of your comment I don't get it but that's ok. I don't believe in discrimination in public or private work force. You disagree, that's fine.
SeanusThreads: 22
Posts: 30,158
Joined: Dec 25, 07 ♂ 		 Dec 4, 11, 21:06    #243
So, suggestions to repair the damage of the past? What's the difference between parity and equality?
PennBoyThreads: 157
Posts: 3,443
Joined: Dec 7, 08  Pictures: 2 ♂ 		 Dec 4, 11, 21:07    #244
Polonius3:
At least 50% of candidates for political office must be women.

WHAT!!!? They better get off that crack lol. Women may have a mind equal to a man but in politics you need Cojones.
Look at what this guy thinks of gender equality....
grubasThreads: 20
Posts: 1,452
Joined: Feb 1, 10  Pictures: 1 ♂ 		 Dec 4, 11, 21:09    #245
Seanus:
will concede that reverse discrimination

What do you mean REVERSE discrimination?Discrimination is discrimination,period.All these parity and affirmative action laws are discriminatory.I can't understand why i have to tell my race on job application.Since like they say everyone is equel it should not matter wheter I am caucasian,black or yellow.This is discrimination!This ******* world becoming very hostile place for caucasian male.Makes me very angry.
skysoulmateThreads: 41
Posts: 3,039
Joined: Jan 10, 10 ♂ 		Edited by: skysoulmate  Dec 4, 11, 21:15    #246
Seanus - seriously, how many times do I have to repeat myself. Encourage kids, foster interests in typically male dominated fields with the girls and male dominated fields with the girls, focus on science with the girls and art and social services with the boys. Interests is the key to real equality. Did you get the part where Scandinavia has many more female pilots than the US despite the fact there was no affirmative action in Sweden until fairly recently? Did you get that? That alone is all you needed to read but as always you cherry picked your favorite tidbits and left out the rest. They achieved a more equal society WITHOUT forced, reverse discrimination. That's what I mean. Quotas bring equality on paper only, numerically but not in real life. That's what I meant.

This is a very repetitious discussion. Or rather a series on monologues. I will never, ever concede to any form of legalized discrimination. I acknowledge that we have problems today but I believe we should solve them via education, encouragement and guidance. You believe we need government control. Now you bring in Israel? What's next? Das Kapital?

Dude, if you're gonna skip reading my comments then why are you even asking me questions??
I am for equality, period! If there's ever parity reached because there are just as many well-qualified men and women for the same jobs then more power to them. That's great. However if you reach fake equality via forced parity than you haven't achieved anything new. You simply replaced one form of discrimination with another. Read my comment about gender neutral interviews - it should apply to ALL aspects of life. If you understand that part of my reasoning you'll understand the rest. If not, we'll never agree.
SeanusThreads: 22
Posts: 30,158
Joined: Dec 25, 07 ♂ 		Edited by: Seanus  Dec 4, 11, 21:17    #247
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reverse_discrimination, here. Grubas, 'The law in some countries, such as the UK, draws a distinction between Equality of Provision and Equality of Outcome, recognising that identical treatment may sometimes act to preserve inequality rather than eliminate it. Opponents of this distinction may label it as an example of positive discrimination'. This is the crux of the matter.

If you accept that discrimination is wrong in the first place then what does that say about you when you sat back and allowed it??? You are up in arms about discrimination yet allowed the very thing you curse against. A word beginning with 'h' and ending in 'e' springs to mind.

SSM, Swedes didn't discriminate against blacks like America did. They have traditionally been more egalitarian so 'tweaking' measures don't go that far towards redressing the imbalance and that's my point. It's still a PAST grievance with no given remedy. You keep looking to the future and that's great but please compensate the wronged. That's what I'm telling you!!

Furthermore, would you be prepared to pay more tax towards educating blacks who were previously denied access? Would you coach them to become a pilot, for example?
grubasThreads: 20
Posts: 1,452
Joined: Feb 1, 10  Pictures: 1 ♂ 		Edited by: grubas  Dec 4, 11, 21:24    #248
Seanus:
'The law in some countries, such as the UK, draws a distinction between Equality of Provision and Equality of Outcome, recognising that identical treatment may sometimes act to preserve inequality rather than eliminate it. Opponents of this distinction may label it as an example of positive discrimination'.

Can't you see it doesn't make any sense?This is simply discrimination of one group of people in order to give favorable position to other group.What a ****** up world we live in.
Explain to me how telling my race on job application helps equality since the employer will base his decision on candidate's race? I stand by my statement discrimination is a discrimination.When a caucasion person is discriminated againt because of his/her skin color it is exactly the same discrimination as against black person because of his/her skin color.
SeanusThreads: 22
Posts: 30,158
Joined: Dec 25, 07 ♂ 		 Dec 4, 11, 21:26    #249
Then I state again, 'If you accept that discrimination is wrong in the first place then what does that say about you when you sat back and allowed it??? You are up in arms about discrimination yet allowed the very thing you curse against'. Right, grubas?
PennBoyThreads: 157
Posts: 3,443
Joined: Dec 7, 08  Pictures: 2 ♂ 		 Dec 4, 11, 21:32    #250
Seanus:
, Swedes didn't discriminate against blacks like America did. They have traditionally been more egalitarian so 'tweaking'

Yea but Swedes ,pardon my French, are dick1ng themselves! Malmo is a ghetto. Arabs, Africans walk around like they're at home. Swedes (the common people) are trying to be civilized and not discriminate but they don't really want them there. But if you say something you're automatically a racist. Those newcomers are not blind they see they can get away with almost anything there. Sweden is giving them freedom that they could never have dreamed of in their old country.
grubasThreads: 20
Posts: 1,452
Joined: Feb 1, 10  Pictures: 1 ♂ 		 Dec 4, 11, 21:33    #251
Seanus:
'If you accept that discrimination is wrong in the first place then what does that say about you when you sat back and allowed it??? You are up in arms about discrimination yet allowed the very thing you curse against'. Right, grubas?

Where do you see me allowing any kind of discrimination?
skysoulmateThreads: 41
Posts: 3,039
Joined: Jan 10, 10 ♂ 		Edited by: skysoulmate  Dec 4, 11, 21:38    #252
seanus:
. You keep looking to the future and that's great but please compensate the wronged. That's what I'm telling you!!

Ok, let's hang white men because many black men were hanged. Oh wait, they killed whites too, not as often but it happened. Compensate, right? How about we scalp the whites because Indians got scalped? Oh wait, they scalped the whites too. What ratio, 1-1? Or dollar figure? $100,000? $1,000,000? or how about three billion dollars to every black person ever born in the US for the next 3,000 years? Or maybe we'll do it in affirmative action years? Three million years from now we might have paid off the debt and the affirmative action will end? Fair?

You're a hypocrite. You want to replace one wrong doing with another wrong and are totally oblivious to how prejudiced you really are. You want the grand-grand-children of former slave owners (or maybe indentured servants themselves?) to be "compensating" grand-grand-children of former slaves (or maybe slave owners themselves? - yes there were black slave owners in America)??? Why don't you go ahead and start saving up money so you can pre-compensate your grand-grand-grand children who might commit a crime in the future? You are as responsible for what they might do in the future as we are for what happened in the past.
grubasThreads: 20
Posts: 1,452
Joined: Feb 1, 10  Pictures: 1 ♂ 		 Dec 4, 11, 21:41    #253
skysoulmate:
You want to replace one wrong doing with another wrong and are titally oblivious to it.

This is exactly the point I am trying to make.
skysoulmateThreads: 41
Posts: 3,039
Joined: Jan 10, 10 ♂ 		 Dec 4, 11, 21:43    #254
It's pointless Grubas - discrimination is wrong but not if it targets males (or whites, etc.)

Delusional sense of justice.
SeanusThreads: 22
Posts: 30,158
Joined: Dec 25, 07 ♂ 		 Dec 4, 11, 21:45    #255
Grubas, then I don't see any efforts to compensate. Look guys, cutting to the chase, were blacks discriminated against or not? SSM, you didn't answer my question about tax. Would you pay a higher rate of tax to educate blacks who lost out to discrimination?
skysoulmateThreads: 41
Posts: 3,039
Joined: Jan 10, 10 ♂ 		Edited by: skysoulmate  Dec 4, 11, 21:53    #256
You are spreading your nonsensical propaganda here. I never caused a black person any harm. I shouldn't have to pay for him/her losing out because I've never seen anyone "lose out." They get free scholarships, waived tuitions, subsidized housing, child health care, preferential admition to high schools, colleges, universities, work places. What fkn planet do you live on? Are you insane? Should I compensate you for what the Vikings did in northern Scotland, Ireland, Holland, etc. too? Are you out of your mind? I think you're just arguing for the same of arguing because those are some of the craziest arguments I've heard so far. I'm just waiting for you to throw in the Jews and a random 9/11 conspiracy and we'll be set.
grubasThreads: 20
Posts: 1,452
Joined: Feb 1, 10  Pictures: 1 ♂ 		Edited by: grubas  Dec 4, 11, 21:54    #257
Seanus:
Grubas, then I don't see any efforts to compensate.

Compensate?Compensate whom and for what exactly?
Seanus:
Would you pay a higher rate of tax to educate blacks who lost out to discrimination?

Why would he?Will you compensate me because I was born and lived in communism?Afterall it was you Brits who helped Soviets.Should I post my bank account # so you can pay me compensation?
SeanusThreads: 22
Posts: 30,158
Joined: Dec 25, 07 ♂ 		Edited by: Seanus  Dec 4, 11, 21:54    #258
So there was no discrimination against them??

SSM, you were all for educating them but are not prepared to dip into your pocket to do so. That tells me sth! You talk a good game but deliver nothing. Just like world leaders on the ME conflict.
skysoulmateThreads: 41
Posts: 3,039
Joined: Jan 10, 10 ♂ 		Edited by: skysoulmate  Dec 4, 11, 22:00    #259
You never listen, ever. I said don't replace A WRONG with another WRONG. Don't replace one form of DISCRIMINATION with a new form of DISCRIMINATION. You're such a hypocrite. Wow...

What the hell do you know about how I spend my money? I choose which charities my money goes to, no leftist hypocrite will make me pay for crimes I never commited. And don't forget to compensate the Swedes and the Norwegians for the murders the Scottish commited against the Vikings.

Seanus, sometimes you make sense and sometimes, wow...
SeanusThreads: 22
Posts: 30,158
Joined: Dec 25, 07 ♂ 		Edited by: Seanus  Dec 4, 11, 22:01    #260
2 wrongs don't make a right. I said that long ago in the thread (176). However, I also believe in compensation for wrongdoing. Don't you?
grubasThreads: 20
Posts: 1,452
Joined: Feb 1, 10  Pictures: 1 ♂ 		 Dec 4, 11, 22:03    #261
Seanus:
So there was no discrimination against them??

It was or it wasn't it does not matter now.Don't you get?We now know it was wrong,and you want replace one kind of discrimination with the other kind and think that it will even things out?Besides if there is ANY slave still living then YES,he/she should be compensated but why do you want compensate someone who has never been a slave and why would I have to compensate someone who had better start in life being born in a free society than me born in communism?Huh?Explain please!
Patrycja19Threads: 79
Posts: 3,974
Joined: Oct 31, 06  Pictures: 1 ♀ 		 Dec 4, 11, 22:10    #262
skysoulmate:
One day your son might be turned down for a job or university education simply because he's your son and not your daughter and you might change your mind? Maybe or maybe not? Who knows...


I have two girls..


skysoulmate:
The minority quota was low for the year


Sky , Im not disagreeing your point, we are almost on the same page, that can happen both ways
if you think about it.. not because of color but gender, it could have been a male less qualified but hired
because he was male or thats what the guy who was hiring at the time wanted.. not because of quotas.

Thats where I am at.. your solution was a good one, but where are
there jobs where they strictly go by experience?

its rampant now, you have to know someone to even get a job now a days.. its getting worse.. not better
and yes, I have experienced it, I will tell you privately in a message, because I dont want to air my personal
issues , but thats not going to change I did however voice my opinion on it, sometimes what is thought is
the best decisions arent and I felt this needed to be said.

I dont like these changes for the future, I think we are a sinking ship and someone needs to patch the hole
before we hit bottom like the titanic..
SeanusThreads: 22
Posts: 30,158
Joined: Dec 25, 07 ♂ 		Edited by: Seanus  Dec 4, 11, 22:10    #263
Grubas, if you can prove you have been wronged, shouldn't you be compensated? It matters, grubas. I wasn't talking about slaves but about Afro-Americans who came later. Do you feel that you should be compensated for being forced to live under communism?

SSM, then who will pay for that education and guidance? Anyone can say that it should happen but who should take the step to actually do it? Those who propose it?

Vikings :) :) I like them :)
skysoulmateThreads: 41
Posts: 3,039
Joined: Jan 10, 10 ♂ 		Edited by: skysoulmate  Dec 4, 11, 22:16    #264
Ok, patrycja, aphro and everyone else. I don't agree with you and that's it. We agree on the final goal but not on how to get there. Discrimination is wrong but I understand how you feel.

Seanus - I lost you but I also lost interest in this thread.

Grubas - I just read the other thread where you're calling me hitler. That's right, i disagree witg you so I'm Hitler. Go and **** yourself you dickhead.
grubasThreads: 20
Posts: 1,452
Joined: Feb 1, 10  Pictures: 1 ♂ 		Edited by: grubas  Dec 4, 11, 22:16    #265
Seanus:
Grubas, if you can prove you have been wronged, shouldn't you be compensated?

Absolutelly.There are courts where wronged person can demand compensation but I am against giving preferential treatment to someone only because of his/her skin color.
skysoulmate:
Go and **** yourself you dickhead.

Same to you s h i thead.
SeanusThreads: 22
Posts: 30,158
Joined: Dec 25, 07 ♂ 		 Dec 4, 11, 22:20    #266
Yes but because of discrimination, many blacks can't afford protracted court costs/cases. So who is going to pay for their legal aid? In Scotland, we have the SLAB. What do you have?

Grubas, straight questions, YES or NO. Were Afro-Americans discriminated against? Were they sufficiently compensated? This will be closure.
grubasThreads: 20
Posts: 1,452
Joined: Feb 1, 10  Pictures: 1 ♂ 		 Dec 4, 11, 22:34    #267
Seanus:
Grubas, straight questions, YES or NO. Were Afro-Americans discriminated against? Were they sufficiently compensated?

Straight answer,I DON'T CARE.I didn't discriminate against any Afro American and I don't see a reason for them being given preferential treatment at MY expense.
SeanusThreads: 22
Posts: 30,158
Joined: Dec 25, 07 ♂ 		 Dec 4, 11, 22:36    #268
I don't want preferential treatment for anyone either. Put yourself aside and please answer YES/NO to my 2 questions and we'll leave it at that.
grubasThreads: 20
Posts: 1,452
Joined: Feb 1, 10  Pictures: 1 ♂ 		 Dec 4, 11, 22:39    #269
Seanus:
Put yourself aside and please answer YES/NO to my 2 questions and we'll leave it at that.

Best answer I can give is I don't know,I never witnessed any discrimination against Afro Americans.If they were they should go to court and demand justice there.
SeanusThreads: 22
Posts: 30,158
Joined: Dec 25, 07 ♂ 		 Dec 4, 11, 22:45    #270
Fair enough! I can tell you that it did happen and many sources confirm that. Bigots got off with it for too long and surely you can't condone that. That's all!

Now, Polish women :) :)

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