Poland = JP2 & vodka?

Polonius3Threads: 1,005 Posts: 4,835 Joined: Apr 11, 08 ♂	Feb 7, 12, 11:41 #1
Polskie Radio foreign service carries a report suggesting that Poland's image abroad is mainly associated with the late Polish-born Pontiff and vodka. Do you agree? If so, why is that the case? http://www.thenews.pl/1/10/Artykul/85605,Polands-image-abroad-JP-II-an d-vodka

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Feb 7, 12, 11:59 #2

Polonius3:

Poland's image abroad is mainly associated with the late Polish-born Pontiff and vodka.

There's a rather nice bar in one of Warsaw's five-star hotels which is called JPII's.

Polonius3:

Do you agree?

Very much so. Knowledge of Poland is shockingly poor in the UK. My weekly newspaper is sent out addressed to "Walsall, Poland" (Walsall is a town of 170,000 people in central England) and Sky TV's Soccer AM have recently been showing highlights from games involving Walsall FC with a caption reading "Warsaw".

Polonius3:

If so, why is that the case?

Sheer ignorance. Although I for one hope it stays that way: Krakow has been pretty much ruined by British and Irish tourists and I'd hate to see the same thing happen to Polish cities which I like (Lublin, Gdansk, Przemysl, etc).

Although, one does have to face the fact that when it comes to absolute world-class top table products, Poland is pretty much limited only to vodka. Well, vodka and cracking birds, but we don't want the wider world to know about that other one.

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Feb 7, 12, 14:40 #3

Maybe the ignorance on the part of outsiders who know so little about Poland stems largely from the negligernce of Poles who fail to promote their own country, its culture, traditions, values, products, folkways, etc. This seems ot be a genetic flaw, becuase already back in the 19th cnetury Adam Mickiewicz wrote: Cudze chwalicie, własnego nie znacie, sami nie wiecie, co posiadacie (You praise all things foreign as being the best, without knowing what your own people possess)..

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Feb 7, 12, 14:49 #4

Polonius3:

the negligernce of Poles who fail to promote their own country, its culture, traditions, values, products, folkways, etc.

Or it could just be that Poles are confident enough about themselves and their country to not give a flying fuuck what people outside Poland think of the place, the people or the anything else Polish. That would fairly well gel with what I have encountered while living in Poland: the attitude that if the rest of world doesn't know about Poland and things Polish, that is just the rest of the world's problem.

JonnyMThreads: 16 Posts: 4,487 Joined: Mar 9, 11 ♂	Feb 7, 12, 14:56 #5
Polonius3: the negligernce of Poles who fail to promote their own country If anything, there's rather a lot of promotion.

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Feb 7, 12, 15:38 #6

Harry:

Or it could just be that Poles are confident enough about themselves and their country to not give a flying fuuck what people outside Poland think of the place

My experience is the complete opposite. Poles seem to be almost neurotically insecure about their place in the world, which is why the current flavour of hysterical patriotism is so distasteful to others.

I do agree with Polonius though. Other than JPII and Lech Walesa, my parents can't name any other famous Pole, despite me living here for so many years and giving them news of what's happening here. And every Christmas when I go back to the UK, it's impossible to think what to take with me that's uniquely Polish. Even vodka and Ptasie Mleczko aren't found solely in Poland.

I do wish Poland as an entity would promote its whole "Where East Meets West" culture, rather than trying to prove how different it is to everywhere else.

delphiandomineThreads: 42 Posts: 9,954 Joined: Nov 25, 08 ♂ [Suspended]	Feb 7, 12, 16:35 #7
Richfilth: I do wish Poland as an entity would promote its whole "Where East Meets West" culture That's what Poznan has been doing - they've got the slogan "Western Style, Eastern Energy" and it seems to work very well. Problem is, "East" is a dirty word in Poland among the hysterical "patriots" - so the country as a whole probably couldn't use it.

HarryThreads: 62 Posts: 8,508 Joined: May 2, 07 ♂ [Suspended]	Feb 7, 12, 16:46 #8
delphiandomine: That's what Poznan has been doing - they've got the slogan "Western Style, Eastern Energy" and it seems to work very well. Same with Wlodawa, the "city of three cultures" (although it's frowned upon to point out that the Jewish parts are pretty much just museum pieces and that Wlodawa no longer borders with Ukraine).

a.k.

Feb 7, 12, 18:04 #9

delphiandomine:

Problem is, "East" is a dirty word in Poland among the hysterical "patriots" - so the country as a whole probably couldn't use it.

Today you were claiming that people from Kresy are "village idiots"... but nevermind.
As for the East being dirty word. Poles don't want to be associated with something which is a foreign culture for them. Whenever I watch an American programme and Poland is mentioned, Russian (?) folk music is played in the background. Do you put Czechs into the same pigeonhole with Russians? Why for instance Czechs are not regarded as "where East meets West" thing?

HarryThreads: 62 Posts: 8,508 Joined: May 2, 07 ♂ [Suspended]	Feb 7, 12, 18:07 #10
a.k.: Whenever I watch an American programme and Poland is mentioned, Russian (?) folk music is played in the background. What would you prefer? Maybe some nice polka?

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Feb 7, 12, 18:10 #11

a.k.:

Today you were claiming that people from Kresy are "village idiots"... but nevermind.

Well, it wasn't exactly a cultural centre, was it? I dare say that if it was around today, it would be very much Polska C.

a.k.:

As for the East being dirty word. Poles don't want to be associated with something which is a foreign culture for them.

It's interesting - for me, Poland is neither East nor West - it's somewhere in the middle. That's why "East meets West" is not a bad thing - Poland, after all, was at the crossroads of Europe and still is to a certain extent.

Harry:

What would you prefer? Maybe some nice polka?

Don't we all love traditional Polish wedding music?

a.k.	Feb 7, 12, 18:11 #12
Harry: What would you prefer? Maybe some nice polka? Chopin :) I would prefer something which is Polish, polka is unfortunately Czech :)

HarryThreads: 62 Posts: 8,508 Joined: May 2, 07 ♂ [Suspended]	Feb 7, 12, 18:15 #13
delphiandomine: Don't we all love traditional Polish wedding music? Disco Polo is not what should ever be promoted anywhere!

a.k.

Feb 7, 12, 18:20 #14

delphiandomine:

Well, it wasn't exactly a cultural centre, was it?

Lwów aren't part of Kresy in your dictionary?

delphiandomine:

I dare say that if it was around today, it would be very much Polska C.

So you support those " hysterical patriots' " views by suggesting that East=worse.

delphiandomine:

It's interesting - for me, Poland is neither East nor West - it's somewhere in the middle.

Ok, it's a slogan. What would you like to see behind that slogan?

Harry:

Disco Polo is not what should ever be promoted anywhere!

Haha, you're definitely right about that, but it's too late! Bayer Full has topped China's hit lists!

BBmanThreads: - Posts: 459 Joined: Jan 4, 11 ♂	Edited by: Moderator Feb 8, 12, 01:17 #15
Polonius3: Cudze chwalicie, własnego nie znacie, sami nie wiecie, co posiadacie (You praise all things foreign as being the best, without knowing what your own people possess).. true.

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Feb 8, 12, 01:47 #16

delphiandomine:

Well, it wasn't exactly a cultural centre, was it?

You very clearly haven't done your homework for this topic. Have you at least bothered to read Boletus' post?
Or have you ever heard of Czesław Miłosz, Adam Mickiewicz, Stanisław Lem, Paweł Jasienica, the Ossolineum library, the Wilno and Lwów universities, Kazimierz Ajdukiewicz, Stefan Banach, Tadeusz Boy-Zeleński, Jan Parandowski, Eugeniusz Romer, Hugo Steinhaus, or, just to mention the oldtimers, Piotr Skarga, Jakub Wujek, Adam Naruszewicz, Joachim Lelewel, and many, many others? The list goes on and on.
Well, you probably haven't.

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Edited by: Moderator Feb 8, 12, 02:15 #17

strzyga:

Well, you probably haven't.

I've heard of most of them, and I wonder - if it was such a great place, why was it also desperately poor (even by II RP standards) and full of village idiots who ran away to America rather than stick around to build Poland?

No matter how hard you try and spin it, Kresy was a dump. L'wow and possibly Wilno were very much exceptions.

(worth pointing out that I'm referring to the time period from 1900-1939, not before)

Stay on topic, it is not about Kresy.

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Feb 8, 12, 02:48 #18

delphiandomine:

if it was such a great place, why was it also desperately poor (even by II RP standards)

I don't think it was desperately poor, but it all depends on what you're talking about - which part of Kresy and which period of time. Throughout the ages, the name Kresy denoted a huge area, from today's Romania to today's Latvia; far from uniform. Generally, towns and cities stood out and the peasants were poor as elsewhere. The epitome of poverty was Galicia, not Kresy.

delphiandomine:

full of village idiots who ran away to America

could it be they emigrated because they didn't feel at home there? :P
more seriously, the poor ones emigrated for a better life and I don't think Kresy was the biggest source of emigrants; look at Galicia again. People emigrated from all over Poland (yes, Wielkopolska too).

delphiandomine:

No matter how hard you try and spin it, Kresy was a dump.

No idea where you've got this idea from...

delphiandomine:

(worth pointing out that I'm referring to the time period from 1900-1939, not before)

duh. Two revolutions and three wars, borders shifting all around, countries appearing and disappearing again, millions of people relocated to and fro. What would you expect? Still, if you look at the parts which remained within the Polish borders in the period 1918-39, it didn't look so bad at all and definitely not culturally. And it wasn't just Wilno and Lwów, try Stanisławów, Baranowicze, Nowogródek, Grodno, Krzemieniec, Tarnopol, practically any Kresy town.

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