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Pole, Hungarian, two good friends


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LukaszThreads: 73
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Joined: Sep 1, 07 ♂ 		Edited by: Lukasz  Apr 7, 08, 08:14    #1
and again ;)


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pole%2C_Hungarian%2C_two_good_friends

Polish, Hungarian, two good friends is the short form of the popular bilingual proverbial rhyme about the historical friendship of the Polish and the Hungarian people.

Although no surveys have been made about what proportion of Hungarians and Poles can recall the full poem, it must be a high figure in both countries, and practically the full populations are aware of a special relationship between the two Central European nations. No other similar widespread bilingual proverb exists about the mutual relations of two nations.


The emotional link has not been broken even among extreme political conditions like the period of the Second World War when Germany invaded Poland, while Hungary was a close political (and later military) ally of Adolf Hitler's Germany. In the memory of Hungarians it was one of the few positive chapters of the country's world war history that Hungary received more than 100,000 Polish refugees after the German invasion and even established schools for Polish children


Recent genetic research[3] prove that this pledge has a factual basis. Both Polish and Hungarian populations have the highest frequency of the R1a Y gene in Europe. Two people will have the same Y chromosome marker only if they originated from the same father.
lesserThreads: 7
Posts: 2,014
Joined: Oct 19, 07 ♂ 		 Apr 7, 08, 14:28    #2
Some interesting animations made by a Pole and a Hungarian.
LukaszThreads: 73
Posts: 2,396
Joined: Sep 1, 07 ♂ 		Edited by: Lukasz  Apr 7, 08, 18:17    #3
(2:06 ... part about Poland) ;)



I have heard that square in Budapest will have name of Polish heroes
Jozef PilsudskiThreads: -
Posts: 30
Joined: Mar 15, 08 ♂ 		 Apr 7, 08, 19:23    #4
As someone with both Polish and Hungarian ancestry, I am delighted to see "my" two peoples have such a close historic link of friendship and cooperation.

This also raises issues such as the future of Poland's relationship with Romania, or Hungary's relationship with Russia. This could unfortunately be viewed as a "bias" by the international community.
KowalskiThreads: 12
Posts: 619
Joined: Sep 13, 06 ♂ 		 Apr 7, 08, 19:27    #5
I remember football qualifier some years ago between Poland and Hungary in Budapest. Polish crowd of some thousands had this huge banner saying "Poles and Hungarians two brothers to fight and drink together" - lots of cheering for both sides in this game.
LukaszThreads: 73
Posts: 2,396
Joined: Sep 1, 07 ♂ 		 Apr 8, 08, 04:09    #6
I have interesting website

http://www.electronicmuseum.ca/Poland-Hungary/poland_hungary.html
CrowThreads: 367
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Joined: Feb 14, 07  Pictures: 1 ♂ [Suspended] 		Edited by: Crow  Apr 10, 08, 16:37    #7
Lukasz:
Recent genetic research[3] prove that this pledge has a factual basis. Both Polish and Hungarian populations have the highest frequency of the R1a Y gene in Europe. Two people will have the same Y chromosome marker only if they originated from the same father.

Luk, i said many times that Hungarians are Slavs by origin. That is well known historic fact.

On the territory of today`s Hungary was core of old Great Moravia. Before that, region was part of Sarmatia Europae. I would also underline that Hungary is positioned in Panonia. Word Panonia = Zemlja Pana/Panova Zemlja (land of masters), coming from Polish word `Pan` and suggests that Panonia as area was under influance of Polish language or to say, old Slavic warlords from Polish speaking area.

But, those Slavs are spiritualy hungarized, with tendency to be germanized. From my expiriance with Hungarians (from Voivodina/northern Serbian province), they are, among themselves strongly racialy divided. Blond and brown haired/eyed (Europoids) Hungarians consider black haired (Hun eyes looking) as true Hungarians. More or less, they (Europoid Hun.) are aware that they originates from assimilated Slavs but it is `public secret` which they tries to avoid to comment- its taboo.

Hun (black) looking Hungarians, don`t like to mix with Slavs (nor Slavs with them- Serbs and Slovaks, speaking about Voivodina) but they like to mix with blond or brown Hungarians. They are proud with Atila and they consider themselves as bearers of true Hungarian heritage.

In general, there is much more Slavic looking Hungarians then those who are Hun looking. About 85:15 %, in my oppinion.

In my oppinion, in different historical circumstances, Slavic looking Hungarian population would be proud Slavic, again. In world without German domination.
El GatoThreads: 9
Posts: 459
Joined: Sep 21, 07 ♂ 		 Apr 10, 08, 16:47    #8
Crow, when will you get it through your skull that JUST BECAUSE POLES AND SERBS ARE BOTH SLAVS, DOES NOT MAKE US THE EXACT SAME PEOPLE.

Genetic origin proves nothing about a group of people except where the came from.

Yes, Poles are slavs.

Yes, Serbs are slavs.

No, Poles and Serbs are not the same. We are 2 completely different groups of people with a few similarities. There will never be another Yugoslavia. Get over it and get on with your life man.
isthatu2Threads: 13
Posts: 5,228
Joined: Apr 3, 08 ♂ 		 Apr 10, 08, 16:50    #9
Croats and Bosniacs were Slavs...didnt stop the serb murder gangs......
CrowThreads: 367
Posts: 7,316
Joined: Feb 14, 07  Pictures: 1 ♂ [Suspended] 		 Apr 10, 08, 16:50    #10
El Gato:
El Gato

what`s wrong with you man?

you aren`t capable for civil discussion or what?
El GatoThreads: 9
Posts: 459
Joined: Sep 21, 07 ♂ 		 Apr 10, 08, 16:51    #11
Crow:
what`s wrong with you man?


Nothing, why?

Crow:
you aren`t capable for civil discussion or what?


I am. Maybe you're just not ready to hear my opinion.
LukaszThreads: 73
Posts: 2,396
Joined: Sep 1, 07 ♂ 		Edited by: Lukasz  Apr 10, 08, 16:54    #12
Crow:
Crow


I have hearrd that Hungarians have a lot of Slavic blood, all in all they are surounded by Slavic nations. I don't think that Polish-Hungarian realtions are based on racial motives, there are much more similar nations to us in our region ...

what are Serbs - Hungarians relations Crow ?
CrowThreads: 367
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Joined: Feb 14, 07  Pictures: 1 ♂ [Suspended] 		Edited by: Crow  Apr 10, 08, 17:01    #13
El Gato:
I am. Maybe you're just not ready to hear my opinion.

Listen. You can start immidiately to claim that you are Martian (or if somebody impose that idea on you). Its OK with me (or i can pretend that its OK).

I don`t give a sh** if you are Martian but, don`t complaint if i note that you was Earthling.


Then, if you accept to be Martian its OK with me, as long as you don`t try to force me to become Martian, same as you.

Note- your Martian status becoming problem for me if we share history and you, suddenly, considering that you are now Martian, start to denied my existance, my heritage,... claiming that, my, your, our- heritage was in fact always Martian heritage.
El GatoThreads: 9
Posts: 459
Joined: Sep 21, 07 ♂ 		 Apr 10, 08, 17:05    #14
Crow:
or if somebody impose that idea on you


Does that refer to your belief that Germans impose upon everything?

Crow:
Then, if you accept to be Martian its OK with me, as long as you don`t try to force me to become Martian, same as you.


I'm not forcing you to be anything crow. I just dislike how you claim that Serbs are the same as Poles. There are too many differences among the 2 peoples.

Crow:
Then, your Martian status becoming problem for me if we share history and you, suddenly, considering that you are now Martian, start to denied my existance, my heritage,... claiming that, my, your, our- heritage was in fact always Martian heritage.


WTF are you talking about? Just fill in "martian" and "earthling" with Pole, Serb, and German please, so I can understand what you are trying to say.
CrowThreads: 367
Posts: 7,316
Joined: Feb 14, 07  Pictures: 1 ♂ [Suspended] 		Edited by: Crow  Apr 10, 08, 17:07    #15
Lukasz:
I don't think that Polish-Hungarian realtions are based on racial motives,

sure. I just gave comment on one aspect of Polish-Hungarian relations.

Also is fact that majority of Hungarians (same as Poles) are Catholics. That is also one more reason for connections- one more aspect of it.
El GatoThreads: 9
Posts: 459
Joined: Sep 21, 07 ♂ 		 Apr 10, 08, 17:09    #16
Crow:
Note- your Martian status becoming problem for me if we share history and you, suddenly, considering that you are now Martian, start to denied my existance, my heritage,... claiming that, my, your, our- heritage was in fact always Martian heritage.


I think I get the jist of what you are trying to say.

You think I am trying to deny your people, Serbs, are in any way or form similar to Poles.

Am I right?
LukaszThreads: 73
Posts: 2,396
Joined: Sep 1, 07 ♂ 		Edited by: Lukasz  Apr 10, 08, 17:14    #17
Crow:
Also is fact that majority of Hungarians (same as Poles) are Catholics

I don't think it is about religion, simple in part of our history we had common interests and then good realtions started

everybody started to moan about Crow. I know that sometimes his Slavic passion is fanatic :) I think he is interesting personality and I like his posts :)

Не отказывайся Crow ;)

I think it wouldn't be ok If we had only Anglo-Saxon boot lickers on this forum :)

Poland is place where West mets East :)
CrowThreads: 367
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Joined: Feb 14, 07  Pictures: 1 ♂ [Suspended] 		Edited by: Crow  Apr 10, 08, 17:27    #18
El Gato:
I'm not forcing you to be anything crow. I just dislike how you claim that Serbs are the same as Poles. There are too many differences among the 2 peoples.

We can agree that there is Polish and Serbian nation. It would be politicaly correct.

But, what are Polish and Serbian nations in reality?

Our nations are in fact great conglomerates of old Slavic tribes.

Polish national name suggests conclusion that critical mass of old Slavic tribes on the territory of today`s Poland lived depending on agriculture. Due different historical circumstances, Polish national name was extracted but memory on Sarmatian past was preserved.

Situation with Serbian national name is a little bit different. It saems that for some historical reasons, Slavic tribes which lived on the territory of today`s Serbia (and Lusatia, etc.) preserved Sarmatian name in its original (as, if) form.


But, as i said, all Slavic nations are just great conglomerates of old Slavic tribes/clans. That`s why Slavs are so connected even when our national (political) beings are on opposite sides. Simply, no matter all defferences (imposed on us or not), Slavs tend to be just Slavs or to say Sarmatians, no more, no less. Methaphiscaly, Slavs can`t accept national and territorial borders between them.

Such a behavior isn`t politicaly correct, of course and, is consider to be barbaric- as always.
El GatoThreads: 9
Posts: 459
Joined: Sep 21, 07 ♂ 		 Apr 10, 08, 17:32    #19
Crow:
Our nations are in fact great conglomerates of old Slavic tribes.


All people living today, in fact, stem from the same group of early african hominids, so everyone alive today comes from the same clan.

Our genetic history has nothing to do with our customs, beliefs, country of origin, etc. Just because we come from the same denomination of people does not mean we are the same. Poles and Serbs are very different, just like Poles and Germans are, and any other groups of people alive today.
LukaszThreads: 73
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Joined: Sep 1, 07 ♂ 		 Apr 10, 08, 17:34    #20
El Gato:
El Gato


Have you ever been to different slavic country than Poland ?
CrowThreads: 367
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Joined: Feb 14, 07  Pictures: 1 ♂ [Suspended] 		Edited by: Crow  Apr 10, 08, 17:36    #21
El Gato:
All people living today, in fact, stem from the same group of early african hominids, so everyone alive today comes from the same clan.

Our genetic history has nothing to do with our customs, beliefs, country of origin, etc. Just because we come from the same denomination of people does not mean we are the same. Poles and Serbs are very different, just like Poles and Germans are, and any other groups of people alive today.

sure

but, we know- Slavs are Slavs and they have their resources. We-Slavs can share it, trade, but remember- those are Slavic resources. We- Slavs control it, we won it, God gave us our land and beautiful woman.
El GatoThreads: 9
Posts: 459
Joined: Sep 21, 07 ♂ 		 Apr 10, 08, 17:40    #22
Lukasz:
Have you ever been to different slavic country than Poland ?


I have visited Russia and Lithuania for a few weeks each.

I liked to read, however, and have read countless books about other countries and have friends from all over the world.

I agree that Poles and Serbs, or any other Slavs for that matter, seem to be very similar because there have been only recent divisions (in relative history) among the slavic people, but we are very different indeed.

Poles celebrate things differently than Bulgarians, Serbs view the west differently than Czechs, etc.

We all have our differences. I look like my father, but does that make me a complete copy of him? Physically we are similar, but does that mean we are equals mentally?

By the way, there is a chance I will be visiting eastern europe this summer, and one of the destinations would be Hungary. I look forward to being able to go.

:]
KilklineThreads: 3
Posts: 894
Joined: Jul 23, 07 ♂ 		 Apr 10, 08, 17:45    #23
Crow:

but, we know- Slavs are Slavs and they have their resources. We-Slavs can share it, trade, but remember- those are Slavic resources.


Russia didnt seem too keen on sharing the wealth with its Slavic brothers when it arranged the Baltic gas pipeline to Germany despite the fact that it would cost a third to build it through Poland.

Was it maybe because opting for an underwater rather than a land route will enable Gazprom to cut off supplies to Poland without hurting its Western European customers?

Hmm, surely not. Russia loves her Slavic brothers.
LukaszThreads: 73
Posts: 2,396
Joined: Sep 1, 07 ♂ 		 Apr 10, 08, 17:49    #24
Kilkline:
Russia didnt seem too keen on sharing the wealth with its Slavic brothers when it arranged the Baltic gas pipeline to Germany despite the fact that it would cost a third to build it through Poland.


It is because we were talking good to our partners form EU and NATO ... If we were talking good to Russians we would have this pipe line in Poland. It seems that our partners talk about loyality only when it comes to contacts with US ...

I think Crow is right in many points .
CrowThreads: 367
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Joined: Feb 14, 07  Pictures: 1 ♂ [Suspended] 		 Apr 10, 08, 17:49    #25
Lukasz:
Poland is place where West mets East :)

interesing

same oppinion, St. Sava (Rastko Nemanjic), in his time, mentioned for Serbians

Hm, I would remind you brate that Serbian Nemanjic house was ancestral house of Polish Jadwiga house.

BDW Luk, did you know that crucial Hungarian nobility originates from Serbs?
LukaszThreads: 73
Posts: 2,396
Joined: Sep 1, 07 ♂ 		Edited by: Lukasz  Apr 10, 08, 17:50    #26
Crow:
BDW Luk, did you know that crucial Hungarian nobility originates from Serbs?


I don't know Serbian Hungarian relations (I feel they are not so good as PL-HUN ;) )
CrowThreads: 367
Posts: 7,316
Joined: Feb 14, 07  Pictures: 1 ♂ [Suspended] 		Edited by: Crow  Apr 10, 08, 17:57    #27
Kilkline:
Russia didnt seem too keen on sharing the wealth with its Slavic brothers when it arranged the Baltic gas pipeline to Germany despite the fact that it would cost a third to build it through Poland.

Was it maybe because opting for an underwater rather than a land route will enable Gazprom to cut off supplies to Poland without hurting its Western European customers?

Hmm, surely not. Russia loves her Slavic brothers.

There is no necesity for irony, from Pole to a Serb. Serbs knows truth and don`t hesitate to speak truth. You should know that.

We all very well know that Russians as brothers are OK but that Russian elite can be very idiotic from time to time.

I think, Serbian inteligentsia can fix it. Believe in Serbs. We used to change things.

Lukasz:


Kilkline:
Russia didnt seem too keen on sharing the wealth with its Slavic brothers when it arranged the Baltic gas pipeline to Germany despite the fact that it would cost a third to build it through Poland.


It is because we were talking good to our partners form EU and NATO ... If we were talking good to Russians we would have this pipe line in Poland. It seems that our partners talk about loyality only when it comes to contacts with US ...

I think Crow is right in many points .

well noticed

Polish elite is sometimes selfish and idiotic, too. Just, see that Tusk. Absolute moron.

It should also be fixed
LukaszThreads: 73
Posts: 2,396
Joined: Sep 1, 07 ♂ 		Edited by: Lukasz  Apr 10, 08, 17:58    #28
Crow:
I think, Serbian inteligentsia can fix it. Believe in Serbs. We used to change things.


heheheh Crow is Crow :P

Don't worry Crow 60% of our energy comes form Coal ... we have deposits for next 230 years (new researches) so now we must use some new technologies to make it better for enviroment ;) and we have calm life
CrowThreads: 367
Posts: 7,316
Joined: Feb 14, 07  Pictures: 1 ♂ [Suspended] 		 Apr 10, 08, 18:09    #29
Lukasz:
heheheh Crow is Crow :P

heheheh, it wasn`t Crow but Gavrilo Princip. Princip because of freedom princip

what you think, who `changed` archduke Ferdinand? Who initiated liberation of Slavs from Austro-Hungarian and Turkish rule? Who now `changing` NATO and EU?
LukaszThreads: 73
Posts: 2,396
Joined: Sep 1, 07 ♂ 		 Apr 10, 08, 18:12    #30
Crow first thing Serbia and Poland should do it to become richer :), Poland is richer and richer, I don't know how it is with Serbia ... later we will change world ;) now we should be calm (both Serbia and Poland are not calm ;) ) and work on our economies.

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