Poles should emulate Jews?

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Jun 30, 10, 19:50 #31

Allison:

All they have done is create a bunch of wars with Iran.

Hm, as far as I can remember there hasn't been an open war between Iran and Israël. And for your information: most of the wars the Israeli had weren't started by them.

Allison:

It sounds like a Jewish conspiracy to me so that they can control Poland to carry out whatever they are cooking up.

Why do so many ppl here think that Israël regards PL as so important that they want to control it by all means? I don't think the average Israeli cares more about PL than the average Pole cares about Israël.

But to address the topic: If the Poles are to emulate a ppl, I think the only ppl they should emulate is themselves. They have their own strengths and weaknesses and there's the point to start. Not from some other ppl.

>^..^<

M-G (haec hactenus)

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Jun 30, 10, 19:50 #32

Seanus:

Poles should promote more what they have and what they have done rather than seeking to emulate anyone. Play to its strengths if you will :) :)

I concur, idea of emulating somebody else is a very strange concept, reeking of complexes and self-doubt.
The reasons of Polish weaknesses is complex and cannot be remedy by some copying, anyway who would execute it?
Polonius I'll be blunt - its nonsense!

I-S (simple)

MareGaeaThreads: 45 Posts: 5,527 Joined: Feb 6, 08 ♂	Jun 30, 10, 19:55 #33
Ironside: The reasons of Polish weaknesses is complex and cannot be remedy by some copying, anyway who would execute it? Agreed. Ironside: I-S (simple) And merrily emulating me :))) >^..^< M-G (imitation is the highest form of respect)

IronsideThreads: 59 Posts: 6,787 Joined: Feb 26, 09 ♂	Jun 30, 10, 20:03 #34
MareGaea: And merrily emulating me :))) only form not content :) I-S ( well, I respect you although I often disagree with you)

MareGaeaThreads: 45 Posts: 5,527 Joined: Feb 6, 08 ♂	Jun 30, 10, 20:19 #35
Well, disagreement doesn't rule out respect, doesn't it? >^..^< M-G (and that's a fact)

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Jun 30, 10, 20:39 #36

Seanus:

There are other threads for that and not all of us live in Warsaw ;) ;)

I don't see the motivation of posters here. Almost everyone I meet in Gliwice doesn't discuss the Jewish question. They let sleeping dogs lie and have their own standards to meet.

About not living in Warsaw - I agree :)
I do not know anybody at all who ever mentioned something about a "Jewish Question" in my social circle, nor at work. Perhaps I did not meet any "Nasz Dziennik" readers yet :)
For that matter, hardly anybody is mentioning the elections as well.

Polonius3Threads: 1,005 Posts: 4,835 Joined: Apr 11, 08 ♂	Jun 30, 10, 21:42 #37
Precisely, Poles should promote their own country's heritage, assets, traditions and values, but not with 'przepraszam, że żyję' timidity but with Jewish-style dertermination and assertiveness, at times bordering on hucpa. And they should learn practical day-to-day solidarity with a motto such as 'No Pole is an enemy and every Pole is a brother-Pole!'

SeanusThreads: 22 Posts: 30,158 Joined: Dec 25, 07 ♂	Jun 30, 10, 22:34 #38
You think Poles don't do that, Pol3? They are very aware of their cultural offerings, being so in-looking (introspective). Besides, they have chances to promote their culture through exchange programs and extensive travelling opportunities.

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Jul 1, 10, 09:40 #39

Allison:

I meant that Israel has caused the US to have to go to war with Iran we have no choice. They may not be fighting the wars, but they caused them. I think they very well may be the underground cause of all of the muslim terrorism 9/11 and such.

Firstly, when did the US go to war with Iran, Secondly, Iran is in the process of building a nuclear arsenal and has threatened to wipe Israel off the map. It was the British/Americans that created Israel and displaced the Palestinians, so this issue has always given the muslim hard liners something to use. We have to hope that the dispute with Iran will be resolved through dialogue, because a conflict with Iran would be a stage too far for the world.

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Jul 1, 10, 09:48 #40

warszawski:

displaced the Palestinians

Wrong. Palestinians were given the chance to have their own independant state next to the Jewish, Israeli state. What did they do? They refused that offer and decided to sacrifice themselves in order to kick the Jews out.

warszawski:

dialogue,

Now that´s some wishful thinking there. As much as it sucks, I think this conflict with Iran is something that is just...supposed to be.

Maktub.

Des EssientesThreads: 11 Posts: 2,318 Joined: Feb 6, 10 ♂ [Suspended]	Jul 1, 10, 11:29 #41
The "Jewish" state is placed upon a land that was christian, muslim and jewish. Hundreds of thousands of Christians and Muslims were forced out to make the place majority Jewish. Those people are going to come back. The "Jewish" state needs to follow the example of the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth and accept the multi-denominational character of the area.

alexw68

Jul 1, 10, 11:33 #42

Des Essientes:

The "Jewish" state needs to follow the example of the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth and accept the multi-denominational character of the area.

You're right. But you're talking about the State as distinct from its citizens. It's also incumbent - perhaps more so - on the potential citizenry of that Commonwealth, which for the foreseeable future is hellbent on grabbing its neighbours warmly by the throat.

Des EssientesThreads: 11 Posts: 2,318 Joined: Feb 6, 10 ♂ [Suspended]	Jul 1, 10, 12:10 #43
This argument-- that multi-denominational equality would be ideal for Palestine, but the Semites are too quarrelsome and bloodthirsty to cooperate with each-other-- is essentially the same as the one used by Germans, and others, to argue against the viability of the Rezpublica during the time of partition.

alexw68

Edited by: alexw68 Jul 1, 10, 12:21 #44

Des Essientes:

This argument-- that multi-denominational equality would be ideal for Palestine, but the Semites are too quarrelsome and bloodthirsty to cooperate with each-other-- is essentially the same as the one used by Germans, and others, to argue against the viability of the Rezpublica during the time of partition.

Probably a fair point. The West has 'imposed' self-determination on Iraq and Afghanistan as a matter of policy following invasions - later, if likely not sooner, the political & religious culture of the region may achieve the necessary character for this to happen without outside intervention. The opportunity has to be given, even if as it looks right now we 'can't get to there from here'.

But the interim period would have to be policed. I'd hazard a guess that, unless the UN can rustle up a couple of battalions of crack Inuit peacekeepers, there's no institution on earth that would be unobjectionable to both parties and have the necessary muscle to enforce a ceasefire.

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Jul 1, 10, 13:14 #45

I don't think it can happen over night out of a clear blue sky, but if individual Poles were to see the necessity of such action, then it could take eventually become reality. How does anything get started? Often by word of mouth. Someone drops an idea, someone else picks up on it, some else refines and improves it. Some celeb mentions it on a talk show, a poltician touches on it in a speech, a manufacturer uses it in an advert, and before long.....
When one thinks of some of the worthless crap (products, 'music', causes, fads, lifestyles, notions, buzz-words) that are being peddled and swallowed by the gullible public, why cannot occasionally something meaningful catch on? Anyway...as your great English bard once said...'hope springs eternal in the human breast!'

MatowyThreads: 1 Posts: 519 Joined: Jul 4, 09 ♂	Jul 1, 10, 13:34 #46
Polonius3: When one thinks of some of the worthless crap (products, 'music', causes, fads, lifestyles, notions, buzz-words) that are being peddled and swallowed by the gullible public, why cannot occasionally something meaningful catch on? Because those worthless things are popular precisely because they are worthless. And you assume that this idea of Polish solidarity is a meaningful one...

Miguel ColombiaThreads: 3 Posts: 711 Joined: Apr 20, 10 ♂	Jul 1, 10, 14:13 #47
Des Essientes: Those people are going to come back. No ,they won´t.

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Jul 1, 10, 21:13 #48

Miguel Colombia:

Wrong. Palestinians were given the chance to have their own independant state next to the Jewish, Israeli state. What did they do? They refused that offer and decided to sacrifice themselves in order to kick the Jews out.

I understand the meaning of a displaced person to be -One who has been driven from one's homeland by war or internal upheaval.

Miguel Colombia:

Now that´s some wishful thinking there. As much as it sucks, I think this conflict with Iran is something that is just...supposed to be.

Quite frankly it does not matter what you think from the comfort of your armchair. The people of the middle east do not want another conflict in the region. Moreover, another war would be a financial disaster for Europe/America.

Miguel ColombiaThreads: 3 Posts: 711 Joined: Apr 20, 10 ♂	Jul 1, 10, 21:16 #49
warszawski: The people of the middle east do not want another conflict in the region. That´s why they support the politicians they support? And now I mean both sides.

MatowyThreads: 1 Posts: 519 Joined: Jul 4, 09 ♂	Jul 1, 10, 21:21 #50
Miguel Colombia: That´s why they support the politicians they support? And now I mean both sides. Don't overestimate the power of democracy. The freedom to vote is simply a freedom to choose the lesser evil.

IronsideThreads: 59 Posts: 6,787 Joined: Feb 26, 09 ♂	Jul 1, 10, 22:43 #51
Polonius3: How does anything get started? By the work of chosen few. So, called elite is what Poland is lacking!

warszawskiThreads: 60 Posts: 2,389 Joined: May 21, 10 ♂	Jul 1, 10, 23:30 #52
Ironside: By the work of chosen few. So, called elite is what Poland is lacking! What about the intelligentsia is this not the so, called elite. That you consider Poland to be lacking.

IronsideThreads: 59 Posts: 6,787 Joined: Feb 26, 09 ♂	Jul 1, 10, 23:38 #53
warszawski: What about the intelligentsia WHAT intelligentsia?

alexw68

Edited by: alexw68 Jul 1, 10, 23:47 #54

Ironside:

WHAT intelligentsia?

- The guys who are pissing all over their Western European counterparts in computer coding and higher maths (Poles have had consistent high placings in Google's 'summer of code' programs for at least three years now);
- The perhaps more introspective and less pragmatic partially self-taught historian (there's one on every staircase);
- The artists and musicians (Leszek Mozdzer, a host of other fine pianists to limit it to but one instrument) of international repute - and the others the rest of the world simply hasn't got clued up to yet;

It's a more widely distributed intelligentsia now (and certainly not as classbound as the saloniści of yore) but it's there. It's simply moved on and doesn't get hung up on Kant and Hegel in the context of frickin' 70s jazz rock - as was the case not so very long ago in some of the samizdat journals.

Applied intelligentsia. we salute you.

A

PS for many years - especially when Poland was under the Partitions - the traditional expectation was that a member of the intellectual elite would, sooner or later, be a big face on the political stage. And there, my Friend, I must entirely agree with you.

IronsideThreads: 59 Posts: 6,787 Joined: Feb 26, 09 ♂	Jul 2, 10, 00:07 #55
alexw68: The guys Well, it all a very nice but I fail to see political elite or any other having impact on the way Poland is govern.

alexw68	Jul 2, 10, 00:09 #56
Ironside: Well, it all a very nice but I fail to see political elite or any other having impact on the way Poland is govern. You read my post to the end, then ? :)

IronsideThreads: 59 Posts: 6,787 Joined: Feb 26, 09 ♂	Edited by: Ironside Jul 2, 10, 00:15 #57
alexw68: You read my post to the end, then ? :) One swallow does not make spring :) I can be enigmatic too:)

warszawskiThreads: 60 Posts: 2,389 Joined: May 21, 10 ♂	Jul 6, 10, 09:35 #58
Ironside: One swallow does not make spring :) Drinking from the cup of red and white, can certainly make the brain function better.

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Aug 21, 11, 07:54 #59

I admit I personally feel resentful about what I sometimes see as Jewish pushiness and exclusivist, including various anti-Polish attitudes. Yes, they have stepped on other people's toes and practice a form of Jewish 'firstism', but that too is part and parcel of their overall survival strategy. And it has worked. How many nations could lose half their number wiped out by Hitler only to bounce back and command the wealth, power and influence they do today?

Dwarim (Dvarim) 9:4-21 speaks to this very issue.

SeanusThreads: 22 Posts: 30,158 Joined: Dec 25, 07 ♂	Aug 21, 11, 23:10 #60
You choose who you want as a role model in your life, whether they be Jewish or otherwise. There are plenty successful Jews in many walks of life so they make for good choices but carving out your own formula with minor influences is the preferred way.

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