PolishForums.com
POLAND . The Unofficial Guide
 Unanswered | Archives
Poland and Polish Community Witamy, Guest | PF Members | Gold Members

Polish Forums / Society, Culture /

POLISH ART is not well represented in the West (especially in the US). Why?


posts: 27

rychlikThreads: 51
Posts: 446
Joined: Aug 6, 08 ♂ 		 Oct 28, 10, 22:12    #1
One question: why is Polish art not very well represented in the West? Especially in N.America. There's too much emphasis on Anglo, French, Dutch and German artists (photographers and painters). Is it a form of discrimination? I think it might be.

Separate issue- if one wants to go into the photography business in Poland, is it easy? I would love to contribute something to Polish art culture.
zetigrekThreads: 59
Posts: 2,709
Joined: May 20, 10 ♂ 		Edited by: zetigrek  Oct 28, 10, 22:52    #2
rychlik:
One question: why is Polish art not very well represented in the West?


Wilhelm Sasnal
Igor Mitoraj
Magdalena Abakanowicz
Rafał Olbiński

are very well represented.

Rafał Olbiński jest dobrze znanym twórcą. Jego prace są eksponowane zarówno w renomowanych galeriach i muzeach, wśród których można wymienić Bibliotekę Kongresu, Muzeum Sztuki Nowoczesnej i Carnegie Foundation w Nowym Jorku, Muzeum Plakatu w Wilanowie jak i gromadzone przez wielu prywatnych kolekcjonerów na całym świecie. Olbiński prowadzi także współpracę ze znanymi czasopismami takimi jak: The New York Times, Newsweek, Business Week czy Der Spiegel. Jego twórczość jest szeroko nagradzana na wielu konkursach międzynarodowych. Wśród laurów można wymienić pierwszą nagrodę otrzymaną w 1995 roku w konkursie "New York City Capital of the World" - plakat promujący Nowy Jork jako stolicę świata, Międzynarodowy Oskar za najbardziej niezapomniany plakat na świecie w 1994 roku w konkursie "Prix Savignac" w Paryżu czy pierwszą nagrodę w konkursie Instytutu Praw Człowieka w Strasburgu w 1976 roku. Łącznie zgromadził już ponad 100 nagród za swoją twórczość.

http://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rafa%C5%82_Olbi%C5%84ski
rychlikThreads: 51
Posts: 446
Joined: Aug 6, 08 ♂ 		 Oct 29, 10, 06:48    #3
Thats it??
zetigrekThreads: 59
Posts: 2,709
Joined: May 20, 10 ♂ 		 Oct 29, 10, 09:18    #4
rychlik:
Thats it??


That is you must read the quote I've posted and search for further informations on yourself.

Why do you think that Polish art is absent in America?
AmathystThreads: 30
Posts: 3,968
Joined: Nov 10, 06  Pictures: 2 ♀ 		Edited by: Amathyst  Oct 29, 10, 09:32    #5
rychlik:
One question: why is Polish art not very well represented in the West? Especially in N.America. There's too much emphasis on Anglo, French, Dutch and German artists (photographers and painters). Is it a form of discrimination? I think it might be.


You forgot Italian and Spanish.

It might because they have more exposure? Their style was preferred?

zetigrek:
Wilhelm Sasnal
Igor Mitoraj
Magdalena Abakanowicz
Rafał Olbiński

are very well represented.


I think the point he was trying to make is that they are not on the tip of the tongue of all Europeans like Picaso, Van Gough, Botticelli, da Vinci, even a 5 year old could point one of their paintings out.

I did actually create a threat about Polish art a little while ago but it gain hardly any interest at all.


Felix Topolski - what a wonderful discovery (for me)
zetigrekThreads: 59
Posts: 2,709
Joined: May 20, 10 ♂ 		Edited by: zetigrek  Oct 29, 10, 09:46    #6
Amathyst:
I think the point he was trying to make is that they are not on the tip of the tongue of all Europeans like Picaso, Van Gough, Botticelli, da Vinci, even a 5 year old could point one of their paintings out.


But Tamara Łempicka is ;)

Amathyst:
I did actually create a threat about Polish art a little while ago but it gain hardly any interest at all.


Felix Topolski - what a wonderful discovery (for me)


There was nice thread by McCoy which I contributed a lot.

Slavic Art

I think you may like Witkacy as well

..................................................................

Btw if it goes for photography artists Ryszard Horowitz (a polish jewish photographer and computer graphic) is well known in UniStates. I've just read on wiki intresting note that he was one of the rescued by... Oscar Schindler!
FlaglessPoleThreads: 7
Posts: 1,394
Joined: Aug 19, 10 ♂ 		Edited by: FlaglessPole  Oct 29, 10, 10:09    #7

TrevekThreads: 33
Posts: 2,155
Joined: May 21, 08 ♂ 		 Oct 29, 10, 13:35    #8
Amathyst:
they are not on the tip of the tongue of all Europeans


Maybe most West Europeans can't get their tongues around the Polish names, so they can't remember their names.
A JThreads: 19
Posts: 4,639
Joined: May 21, 10 ♂ 		 Oct 29, 10, 14:13    #9
:)

:)

You know why something simple as this is art? Because these aren't old photographs, but oil-paintings. (Dutch ragpicker and painter, Jopie Huisman.)

:)
zetigrekThreads: 59
Posts: 2,709
Joined: May 20, 10 ♂ 		 Oct 29, 10, 16:09    #10
We have something better AJ. A guy who actually paints... numbers!!!!

Roman opałka
Roman Opałka
A JThreads: 19
Posts: 4,639
Joined: May 21, 10 ♂ 		 Oct 29, 10, 17:20    #11
zetigrek:
We have something better AJ.


Yes you do, but it's not him.

;)


zetigrek:
A guy who actually paints... numbers!!!!


Imaginative! I can probably tell why he's so obsessed with numbers. I mean, I keep having these dreams about such digits on my bank account.

xD
zetigrekThreads: 59
Posts: 2,709
Joined: May 20, 10 ♂ 		 Oct 29, 10, 18:07    #12
A J:
I mean, I keep having these dreams about such digits on my bank account.


well... he don't have to dream about it. Those digits really change into money
A JThreads: 19
Posts: 4,639
Joined: May 21, 10 ♂ 		 Oct 29, 10, 18:14    #13
zetigrek:
well... he don't have to dream about it. Those digits really change into money


I'm willing to bet that if I painted the same rubbish that it wouldn't. I still think it's all about having uppity friends and acquaintances in the art-circuit. I wanted to go to the Rietveld Academy when I was young, and I definitely had a talent for drawing and painting, but alas, the tuition fees were much too high for my family.

:S

Not fair!
sobieskiThreads: 82
Posts: 1,143
Joined: Jun 1, 08 ♂ 		 Oct 29, 10, 20:53    #14
Which Polish art? As compared to Rubens, Van Eyck, Jordaens, Breughel ? Get a life.
joepilsudskiThreads: 44
Posts: 2,529
Joined: Apr 27, 07  Pictures: 1 ♂ 		 Oct 30, 10, 06:45    #15
rychlik:
One question: why is Polish art not very well represented in the West? Especially in N.America. There's too much emphasis on Anglo, French, Dutch and German artists (photographers and painters). Is it a form of discrimination? I think it might be.



Jews control the 'art business' in America and much of the West...Notice, I say business...Most 'art' they sell or promote is absolute garbage..Jewish art is mostly, as they would say, 'dreck'...In fact, most modern visual art is sh**...Please alert me as to any worthwhile Polish visual artists, either in USA or elsewhere....Please.

One very good artist from Poland in the last century was a Jew...His name is Szyk.
southernThreads: 116
Posts: 10,959
Joined: May 17, 07 ♂ 		 Oct 30, 10, 10:29    #16
Generally,Slavic art is completely ignored in the West.In CR and Poland I saw interesting paintings and there are lots of good Russian painters.
A JThreads: 19
Posts: 4,639
Joined: May 21, 10 ♂ 		Edited by: A J  Oct 30, 10, 10:35    #17
Waterfall..

Anything similar?

:)
zetigrekThreads: 59
Posts: 2,709
Joined: May 20, 10 ♂ 		Edited by: zetigrek  Oct 30, 10, 11:23    #18
sobieski:
Which Polish art? As compared to Rubens, Van Eyck, Jordaens, Breughel ? Get a life.


I think that Jacek Malczewski or Gierymsky brothers art is second to none. Why we value Rubens, Rafaello, Jacques-Louis David but not Jan Matejko? Is the same boring perfect realism...

joepilsudski:
Please alert me as to any worthwhile Polish visual artists, either in USA or elsewhere....Please.


I've already alerted you but you are a plastic pole which haven't even bothered to learn polish...

joepilsudski:
One very good artist from Poland in the last century was a Jew...His name is Szyk.


who?

southern:
Generally,Slavic art is completely ignored in the West.In CR and Poland I saw interesting paintings and there are lots of good Russian painters.


Russian artist ceratinly are not ignored in the West.

It's just that you all are not intrested in art and only few artist you could reconize are: Picasso, Da Vinci, Dali as those 3 artists are the favourite subject of trashy documents on discovery channel.
urszulaThreads: 2
Posts: 362
Joined: Aug 31, 07 ♀ 		 Oct 30, 10, 11:53    #19
rychlik:
Is it a form of discrimination? I think it might be.

Maybe coz there ain't any impressionistic, worthwhile Polish artists?
zetigrekThreads: 59
Posts: 2,709
Joined: May 20, 10 ♂ 		 Oct 30, 10, 12:06    #20
urszula:
Maybe coz there ain't any impressionistic, worthwhile Polish artists?


what if there are? Urszula who are you and why you are so negative about Poland (not only in this comment but also many comments by you)?
southernThreads: 116
Posts: 10,959
Joined: May 17, 07 ♂ 		 Oct 30, 10, 14:04    #21
El Greco the biggest artist of all times was of course Greek(from Creta)
PaulinaThreads: 2
Posts: 561
Joined: Jan 31, 08 ♀ 		Edited by: Paulina  Oct 30, 10, 16:31    #22
rychlik:
One question: why is Polish art not very well represented in the West? Especially in N.America. There's too much emphasis on Anglo, French, Dutch and German artists (photographers and painters).


You mean now or in the past?

I think usually rich countries become centres of art. Artists need money too, somebody have to pay them for their pictures - those people or institutions were called patrons, I think. Take Italian painters for example. Their patrons were not only rich noble families but also powerful Vatican (big money, big scale, big prestige, big fame). Michelangelo made the statue of David for the consuls of the Guild of Wool in Florence. He was commissioned to paint the Sistine Chapel ceiling by the Pope Julius II. This famous Pietà was commissioned for the French cardinal Jean de Billheres:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Michelangelo%27s_Pieta_5450_cropncle aned_edit.jpg
The same is with Leonardo da Vinci, Caravaggio and many others.
Artists are drawn to places where other artists already are, where art is developing and money are paid.

Pablo Picasso was Spanish, not French. He came to Paris and he became famous. Marc Chagall (Мойша Захарович Шагалов) was a Belarusian Jew born in Russia (now Belarus). He got a scholarship and thanks to this could come to Paris. Vincent van Gogh came to France from Netherlands.
El Greco was Greek not Spanish. First he came to Italy, than to Spain and he stayed in Spain where he painted for the Catholic Church which was trying to regain its position in Spain.

I would say that, more or less (at least judging by the most famous names and "schools" of art and my limited knowledge):
The Renaissance was owned by Italy, The Netherlands.
Baroque - Italy, Spain, France a bit too.
Romanticism - Germany
Classicism - France
Art Nouveau - France, Austria, Spain
and generally first half of 20th century - France, Spain in a lesser degree (?)
part of the first half and other half of 20th century - America (Andy Warhol, Jackson Pollock)

As for the UK - I remember Thomas Gainsborough and I know about the Pre-Raphaelite Brotherhood but I doubt a 5 year old outside the UK could point one of their paintings out ;)

rychlik:
Is it a form of discrimination? I think it might be.

I don't think so... I guess the West is focused on itself to some degree. But Polish artists weren't kicked out of the galleries or museums as far as I know ;)
There are paintings of Olga Boznańska (who moved from Poland to Austria and then to Paris, I think) in Musée d'Orsay:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mus%C3%A9e_d%27Orsay
Some of her paintings:
http://krakow.gazeta.pl/krakow/5,35815,2278681.html?i=1
http://klp.pl/admin-malarstwo/images/grafiki/5945.jpg
http://klp.pl/admin-malarstwo/images/grafiki/5967.jpg
They're rather sad.

A Russian lady that has been to Paris lately and visited this museum wrote me that she remembered a very sad sculpture by an artist with a Polish name.
It's called "La nostalgie du pauvre":
http://img709.imageshack.us/img709/2915/lanostalgiedupauvreorsa.jpg
It was made by Bolesław Biegas:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boles%C5%82aw_Biegas
I've been to Musée d'Orsay years ago so I can't say right now if there are more Polish artists there.
Polonius3Threads: 1,005
Posts: 4,835
Joined: Apr 11, 08 ♂ 		 Oct 30, 10, 16:48    #23
I'm no art expert, so I wonder whether those in the know would find anything original or merely imtiative amongst the Matejkos, Malczewskis, Grottgers, Kossaks, Stykas and others. Wyspiański would seem to have some potential for wider recognition.
joepilsudskiThreads: 44
Posts: 2,529
Joined: Apr 27, 07  Pictures: 1 ♂ 		Edited by: joepilsudski  Oct 30, 10, 16:54    #24
zetigrek:
've already alerted you but you are a plastic pole which haven't even bothered to learn polish...


Thank you for your generous remarks, as they seem right in line with your pretensions...As you get older, who will hopefully learn to respect a person asking an honest question.

Now Alexander Gierymski is quite good, a realist but with a muted, impressionistic type of style...He worked in watercolors also...Matejko has a classic realistic style to his work, but the realism is in the sense that the human figures and surroundings he paints are not distorted...His themes are quite grand, outlining his impressions of history, mythology and religious matters...Both are certainly giants, but this work is rarely displayed in the West, let alone USA.

When I ask about artists, I mean current, contemporary Polish artists...Who do you like?...Who has something of interest to convey?

Here is work by Arthur Szyk, displaying an 'Orientalist' sensibility, illustrating Jewish oral history being transmitted...He also did 'social realist' work in the Communist 'poster mode', but of a high quality, with irony.

as
zetigrekThreads: 59
Posts: 2,709
Joined: May 20, 10 ♂ 		 Oct 30, 10, 17:23    #25
joepilsudski:
When I ask about artists, I mean current, contemporary Polish artists...Who do you like?...Who has something of interest to convey?


read post #2.

About more polish art visit thread linked in post #6.

joepilsudski:

Now Alexander Gierymski is quite good, a realist but with a muted, impressionistic type of style...He worked in watercolors also...Matejko has a classic realistic style to his work, but the realism is in the sense that the human figures and surroundings he paints are not distorted...His themes are quite grand, outlining his impressions of history, mythology and religious matters...Both are certainly giants, but this work is rarely displayed in the West, let alone USA.


Maybe because they are boring as hell.
Polish symbolist are intresting though. My all time favorite is Jacek Malczewski.
zetigrekThreads: 59
Posts: 2,709
Joined: May 20, 10 ♂ 		Edited by: zetigrek  Oct 30, 10, 17:46    #26
joepilsudski:
Who do you like?

Polonius3:
Malczewskis


Malczewski is really grat symbolist. Rest you have mentioned are boring realists. I wonder if you ever seen Jacek Malczewski painting on your own eyes. They are really awsome! Those vivid colors...
For other polish symbolists (besides Wyspiański) look:

wojna i my
Edward Okuń "Wojna i my"... I love this painting!

Dziwny ogród
Józef Mehoffer "Dziwny ogród"


Witkacy i also very intresting:
witkacy


Wróblewski is more modern kind of artists and really great!
Murdered Tomasz Beksiński was world wide known fantasy artist (I liked his art when I was teen but now I consider it bit cheesy... the same thing with Wojciech Siudmak)

Polish poster school is world wide famouse which we should remember about.

As I mentioned before there is alredy a picture thread about polish (actually slavic) artists, so please visit this thread and don't force me to repost those pics:
Slavic Art - page 2

And also we should remember we actually have a Picasso-fame class artist. Tamara Łempicka was half polish and very detached to her polish roots. Tamara is really in fashion now, I see everywhere poster, reproductions, even notebooks with her paintings on the cover!
zetigrekThreads: 59
Posts: 2,709
Joined: May 20, 10 ♂ 		Edited by: zetigrek  Oct 30, 10, 18:23    #27
For those who didn't know:

Wielu czytelników „Tygodnika Powszechnego" zaskoczyć może informacja, że artystą, którego międzynarodowe grono ekspertów uznało za „numer jeden" na liście najbardziej utalentowanych twórców współczesnych, jest malarz z Tarnowa, którego prace można było kupić kilka lat temu w krakowskiej galerii za kilkaset złotych.

http://tygodnik2003-2007.onet.pl/1548,1426738,0,dzial.html


...................................................................... ...........................

As an answer to this thread I give link t this article:
http://www.wprost.pl/ar/187041/Ile-jest-warta-polska-sztuka-za-granica /?I=1412


Home / Society, Culture / Unanswered [this forum] | Similar


Similar discussions:

"Lithuania! My fatherland, you are like health.."  The Polish Dream - move out from this country as fast as possible


Random: Polish opinion of England as a country and the English nation

Only registered and logged-in users may post here. Please log in or register.


34 [Guests - 28 / Members - 6] users on live forums now


Home | Unanswered | Archives | Random | Statistics Time in Poland: 03:26 / May 27

About Us | Contact Us | Rules, Privacy | Poland Advertising
© 2005-12 PolishForums.com