The Polish Dream - move out from this country as fast as possible

♂

Edited by: David_18 Oct 28, 10, 17:14 #1

One week ago i was speaking to my friends little brother what he wanted to do after he finished school. He told me that he would like to go to the U.K and find a job. I told him that i don't think its a good idea since many Poles return empty handed, but he told me that all his friends in his class had the same plans like him to move out from Poland as fast as possible and that he didn't want to waste his time in Poland.

From one point i do understand him, if he finds a job in the U.K he will probably earn aloot more then he would in Poland. But still it dosen't feel good to hear that the future of Poland is moving abroad. The conversation with him almost felt like he saw it more like an obligation to move out from Poland.

It will still take 20-30 years before Poland can compare itself to the economies in the west, but in those 20-30 years we will loose a whole generation. What did Poland do wrong? And what can Poland do to keep its children from moving abroad?

pgtxThreads: 49 Posts: 6,327 Joined: Feb 14, 09 MEMBER ♀	Oct 28, 10, 17:16 #2
David_18: What did Poland do wrong? it does not create opportunities for young people...

David_18Threads: 111 Posts: 1,212 Joined: Jan 4, 07 ♂	Oct 28, 10, 17:29 #3
pgtx: it does not create opportunities for young people... How can Poland create such opportunities when people don't even give Poland the chance to do so? The young generation takes the first change they get to move abroad.

pgtxThreads: 49 Posts: 6,327 Joined: Feb 14, 09 MEMBER ♀	Oct 28, 10, 17:30 #4
David_18: How can Poland create such opportunities when people don't even give Poland the chance to do so? people or the system?

♂ [Moderator]

Oct 28, 10, 17:31 #5

pgtx:

it does not create opportunities for young people...

yet we learn in another thread that there are to be handouts for those youngish people returning from foreign parts.

there are talks taking place at EU headquarters to raise the minimum wage, but Poland can't afford it. the minimum should be 30% of the average, if i remember correctly. i'm sure someone will put me right.

if the pay is crap and choice of jobs is limited.... then move.

David_18:

One week ago i was speaking to my friends little brother what he wanted to do after he finished school.

i'm sure that he'd have a better idea, if he had careers lessons at school and the government worked with business to show what opportunities are available.

David_18Threads: 111 Posts: 1,212 Joined: Jan 4, 07 ♂	Oct 28, 10, 17:31 #6
pgtx: people or the system? At the moment i would say both. This country really need some reforms...

♂

Oct 28, 10, 17:41 #7

I think most who went abroad plan to return. The Polish people who I know have now bought their own homes (in Poland) after a number of years of saving, they are staying for a while longer to pay for the refurbishment.

What has happened is that they are used to good wages now and are worried that their standard of living will drop when they go home. Ireland has given them money and work experience so perhaps they will be better placed to find reasonable work.

♂

Oct 28, 10, 17:55 #8

Barney:

I think most who went abroad plan to return.

We can only hope for the best.

Barney:

The Polish people who I know have now bought their own homes (in Poland) after a number of years of saving, they are staying for a while longer to pay for the refurbishment.

It's good and bad. In the short term it's good but in the longterm this causes a huge braindrain in Poland.

Barney:

What has happened is that they are used to good wages now and are worried that their standard of living will drop when they go home.

Yes and this has in it's wierd way encouraged other young poles to move abroad after seeing their friends return with plenty of money.

Barney:

Ireland has given them money and work experience so perhaps they will be better placed to find reasonable work.

They could as well find work experience in Poland. Maybe their english skills are improved after some years in Ireland.

BarneyThreads: 16 Posts: 1,630 Joined: May 26, 08 ♂	Oct 28, 10, 18:10 #9
David_18: Yes and this has in it's wierd way encouraged other young poles to move abroad after seeing their friends return with plenty of money. They go make money then return. What should they do, be a lost generation at home? They had the guts to make a few bob in a strange land. I would look for something else to blame rather than them. Polish Dream ....you cant eat a dream.

David_18Threads: 111 Posts: 1,212 Joined: Jan 4, 07 ♂	Oct 28, 10, 18:27 #10
Barney: I would look for something else to blame rather than them. Im not blaming them, i just think it's a sad situation. Barney: Polish Dream ....you cant eat a dream. They got plenty of food at home. They want what the west got. The young generation is hungry for material stuff. Greed my friend, greed.... I blame the americans....

MEMBER ♂

Oct 28, 10, 18:37 #11

David_18:

They got plenty of food at home. They want what the west got. The young generation is hungry for material stuff. Greed my friend, greed....

Have you ever worked in a proper entry level job in Poland? Wages range from 5-10zł per hour in a lot of places for people while they are at University and just after leaving. You need to have money in he bank before you start at the bottom to work your way up. And those wages will give you very little to save...it makes taking the quick trip to the UK or Ireland a simple choice where you can afford to live and save on even a basic salary.

I can't think of any entry level job in Poland that pays 30zł an hour (which is roughly the minimum wage in the UK).

♂

Oct 28, 10, 18:48 #12

David_18:

This country really need some reforms...

Thus, change the politics and stop nepotism, equal rights, give the up-coming generation a fair chance.
From an experience of mine as I recall, I wanted an answer to a simple question regarding VAT at the local tax office. After doing the rounds in the nice open planned office, I finally gave up when I realized the staff were only good for answering the telephones, then I still have my reservations about that !

♂

Oct 28, 10, 18:53 #13

Cardno85:

Have you ever worked in a proper entry level job in Poland?

Import/Export Business.

But i never had any regular job in Poland. Even though im well aware of the salaries in Poland

Cardno85:

Wages range from 5-10zł per hour in a lot of places for people while they are at University and just after leaving. You need to have money in he bank before you start at the bottom to work your way up. And those wages will give you very little to save...it makes taking the quick trip to the UK or Ireland a simple choice where you can afford to live and save on even a basic salary.

I feel you, i really do. And i hope Poland will find a solution to this.

Cardno85:

I can't think of any entry level job in Poland that pays 30zł an hour (which is roughly the minimum wage in the UK).

I know plenty ;)

♂

Edited by: convex Oct 28, 10, 18:56 #14

David_18:

They got plenty of food at home. They want what the west got. The young generation is hungry for material stuff. Greed my friend, greed....

I blame the americans....

Really? Americans invented greed? People have been wanting crap they couldn't afford since there first was crap people couldn't afford.

They don't have plenty of food back home, that's the problem. They want what the west has, like a varied diet, the ability to save up for a home instead of waiting for granny to die so you can get hers, buying a car so you don't have to spend an hour and half to get to work in the morning.

Greedy indeed.

David_18:

I know plenty ;)

Entry level? I highly, highly, highly doubt that. Would be interested to hear about them though. That's 5k a month. I'm sure that a lot of people would like to know of an entry level job that pays 5k a month...

MEMBER ♂

Edited by: Cardno85 Oct 28, 10, 18:59 #15

David_18:

I know plenty ;)

Really, straight from school, no qualifications, no experience?? If you know of some then please let me know, I am out of work at the moment and looking to try something new.

Good to see someone agrees :)

convex:

Entry level? I highly, highly, highly doubt that. Would be interested to hear about them though. That's 5k a month. I'm sure that a lot of people would like to know of an entry level job that pays 5k a month...

♂

Edited by: David_18 Oct 28, 10, 18:59 #16

convex:

Really? Americans invented greed? People have been wanting crap they couldn't afford since there first was crap people couldn't afford.

Haha i weren't that serious about that.

convex:

They don't have plenty of food back home, that's the problem.

Indeed some people got it very harsh. But the majority moves abroad to have a more "western" lifestyle.

Cardno85:

Really, straight from school, no qualifications, no experience?? If you know of some then please let me know, I am out of work at the moment and looking to try something new.

Not without qualifications of course. Im talking about Lawyers and jobs in the finance sector.

pgtxThreads: 49 Posts: 6,327 Joined: Feb 14, 09 MEMBER ♀	Oct 28, 10, 19:14 #17
David_18: Im talking about Lawyers and jobs in the finance sector. you're actually talking about some kids hired by family members... :)

MEMBER ♂

Edited by: Cardno85 Oct 28, 10, 19:31 #18

David_18:

Not without qualifications of course. Im talking about Lawyers and jobs in the finance sector.

Ok, so just to be more clear, are there any jobs you know of in Poland that you can get straight from school that pay 30zł per hour? Because in the UK that is minimum wage. So you can walk into loads of jobs that will pay you that. And while £6.10 an hour doesn't sound like much, after a full week you are looking at about £244 a week. That is almost enough to pay your rent for a room in a flat. Next week you can pay your bills with a bit left over and then you have about £500 to live on/save. That is if you only do 40 hours a week, after that you are likely on time and a half for overtime (which many of these jobs require) and, possibly, tips.

Lets average that out for an average starting waiter working full time, shall we...
Weekly Wage = £244
Overtime = £90 (for 10 hours a week)
Tips = £100 (average weekly tips for me starting)

Total (for 50 hour week) = £534
Total (for a month) = £2314 before tax = (roughly) 9950zł

Now, is it really greed...or is it just looking for something better???

[edit: these are just spitball figures from when I was starting out (adjusted for modern minimum wage)...not a definative figure. Just want to give an idea of the difference.]

♂

Edited by: David_18 Oct 28, 10, 20:14 #19

Cardno85:

Now, is it really greed...or is it just looking for something better???

It is indeed great for the ones that actually find a job in the Uk. But still its not fair for the young ones to travel abroad just to get a decent pay. I hope Poland will find a solution to this problem. Maybe we just have to wait 20-30 years. but i would rather see something happend before that.

My uncle is a teacher and i think he earns slightly more then 1000 Zloty, how is he supposed to make a living out of that? Poland needs to reform it's public sector, if not all the sectors...

MEMBER ♂

Oct 28, 10, 20:23 #20

David_18:

My uncle is a teacher and i think he earns slightly more then 1000 Zloty, how is he supposed to make a living out of that? Poland needs to reform it's public sector, if not all the sectors...

Exactly mate, the missus' dad, before he retired, was an experienced carpenter working for 5zł per hour...in the UK he would be on a fortune for an experienced craftsman in a skilled profession.

You are right, it's crazy in Poland about the wages and incorporating young people into the work force...but, as you said, that takes a generation to change, and why shouldn't young poles look to do better in the mean time. I know many who went to the UK, saved, came hom home and opened businesses. That will help the economy and, in turn, peoples wages. But we can't expect that stuff to happen overnight.

HarryThreads: 62 Posts: 8,508 Joined: May 2, 07 ♂ [Suspended]	Oct 28, 10, 20:26 #21
David_18: My uncle is a teacher and i think he earns slightly more then 1000 Zloty, He must only teach part time then.

♂

Edited by: zetigrek Oct 28, 10, 20:34 #22

David_18:

One week ago i was speaking to my friends little brother what he wanted to do after he finished school. He told me that he would like to go to the U.K and find a job. I told him that i don't think its a good idea since many Poles return empty handed,

bs.

David_18:

But still it dosen't feel good to hear that the future of Poland is moving abroad.

why not?
If someone can't find job better nove out to some place where life is easier than be on a dole in Poland.

David_18:

It will still take 20-30 years before Poland can compare itself to the economies in the west, but in those 20-30 years we will loose a whole generation. What did Poland do wrong? And what can Poland do to keep its children from moving abroad?

David emigration is polish tradition. Their fathers, grandfathers and great grandfather were also emigrating.

David_18:

How can Poland create such opportunities when people don't even give Poland the chance to do so?

I regret that I did not emigrate to UK after my matura. I suggest everyone who can leave Poland especially there is coming great crisis soon. Uciekaj kto może! ;)

Chicago PollockThreads: 10 Posts: 638 Joined: Apr 10, 10 ♂	Oct 29, 10, 07:39 #23
zetigrek: I regret that I did not emigrate to UK after my matura. I suggest everyone who can leave Poland especially there is coming great crisis soon. Uciekaj kto może! ;) Poland had its "great crisis" during the German Occupation. How many Great Crisis can one country have??

zetigrekThreads: 59 Posts: 2,709 Joined: May 20, 10 ♂	Oct 29, 10, 09:01 #24
Chicago Pollock: Poland had its "great crisis" during the German Occupation. How many Great Crisis can one country have?? certainly one more: http://biznes.onet.pl/szewczak-rostowski-ukrywa-faktyczny-dlug,18493,3 754231,1949451,4,1,news-detal

♀

Oct 29, 10, 09:18 #25

pgtx:

it does not create opportunities for young people...

We have an office in Warsaw, they have a graduate programme, I dont imagine they are the only company that do that kind of thing, so maybe people have to create opportunities for themselves, there are plenty of Poles that are doing just fine in Poland.

David_18:

One week ago i was speaking to my friends little brother what he wanted to do after he finished school. He told me that he would like to go to the U.K and find a job. I told him that i don't think its a good idea since many Poles return empty handed, but he told me that all his friends in his class had the same plans like him to move out from Poland as fast as possible and that he didn't want to waste his time in Poland.

Instead he can waste his money and his time looking for work in the UK..Maybe direct him to some web pages explaining that the UK is going through its worst recession, possibly ever!

David_18:

I blame the americans....

You just have to blame someone David! Have you ever heard of accountability?

♂

Edited by: FUZZYWICKETS Oct 29, 10, 09:18 #26

David_18 wrote:

It will still take 20-30 years before Poland can compare itself to the economies in the west

and in 20-30 years "the west" will be that much further ahead, pushing the bar even higher, putting poland.....right where it is now.

that's a bold statement man....what gives you such confidence? if you said, "because by then all the commies will be dead, giving us all a chance," I might buy into this a little.

♀

Edited by: aphrodisiac Oct 29, 10, 14:34 #27

David_18:

In the short term it's good but in the longterm this causes a huge braindrain in Poland.

I would agree to that, the ones who are left come to my English classes and complain that I speak too much English and they don't understand, even though it is a rare opportunity for them to be exposed to English and speak it 4 hours a week - still too much;)

I almost fell off my chair when I heard that.

MaybeThreads: 7 Posts: 335 Joined: Dec 16, 08 ♂	Edited by: Maybe Oct 29, 10, 14:42 #28
One of my students recently remarked that she had seen a black chap (shock horror!!!!) at the cinema and he was speaking English ( could it be possible???). She then voiced her surprise, how he could watch the films if he couldn't read the Polish subtitles? ..Fall off my chair... I nearly threw myself out the window....

Foreigner4Threads: 22 Posts: 1,990 Joined: Nov 18, 07 ♂	Oct 29, 10, 14:43 #29
I agree with a lot of the sentiments here. One thing that really drives young people away is the disparity in wages to what an entry level person will get vs what their bosses get. I think the fact of the matter is: POLES HATE PAYING EACH OTHER (or anyone) FAIR WAGES. There, I wrote it.

MaybeThreads: 7 Posts: 335 Joined: Dec 16, 08 ♂	Oct 29, 10, 14:45 #30
Foreigner4: POLES HATE PAYING EACH OTHER (or anyone) FAIR WAGES FAKT

POLAND . The Unofficial Guide	Unanswered \| Archives
POLAND . The Unofficial Guide	Poland Tips and Ideas	Witamy, Guest \| PF Members \| Gold Members

Home \| Unanswered \| Archives \| Random \| Statistics	Time in Poland: 03:28 / May 27
About Us \| Contact Us \| Rules, Privacy \| Poland Advertising	© 2005-12 PolishForums.com