Polish interment practices...cemetary burial.

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Jun 9, 11, 00:21 #1

I recently visited Poland, north and east of Warsaw, trying to find evidences of relatives who had not emigrated to the USA at the turn of the twentieth century. In addition to searching civil records, etc., I also visited several cemetaries on a search for names and dates (and photos, in some cases). There were very few old gravesites in cemetaries in the "countryside", that is, earlier than about 1918. I realize that two World Wars swept over this ground, but I also got the impression that it was common practice to put graves right over pre-existing sites, especially if older graves were not "kept up". The folks I asked about this in Poland did not seem to have a ready answer, even in one mortuary establishment! Was this common practice, and is that why cemetary scoping for old relatives was so barren of results?

WroclawThreads: 77 Posts: 7,404 Joined: Apr 1, 06 ♂ [Moderator]	Jun 9, 11, 15:50 #2
rsolty: The folks I asked about this in Poland did not seem to have a ready answer, even in one mortuary establishment! one is left in peace for 10 or 15 years and then it's up to the church. (i think)

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Jun 9, 11, 17:55 #3

rsolty:

but I also got the impression that it was common practice to put graves right over pre-existing sites, especially if older graves were not "kept up". The folks I asked about this in Poland did not seem to have a ready answer, even in one mortuary establishment! Was this common practice, and is that why cemetary scoping for old relatives was so barren of results?

Yes, if a family doesn`t pay a fee every 20 years or so, the old grave is emptied and a new lodger is brought.

Look:

rsoltyThreads: 1 Posts: 2 Joined: Jun 8, 11 ♂	Jun 11, 11, 02:45 #4
Thank you, you have confirmed my suspicions. I wish I had known of this site before we left for Poland. In the States, we have gravesites undisturbed for decades although you may not be able to read the inscriptions any more! Of course, they are municipally maintained, not by subscription. My fault for being "provincial". My search continues... We did find some interesting leads, though.

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Edited by: pawian Jun 11, 11, 21:36 #5

rsolty:

In the States, we have gravesites undisturbed for decades although you may not be able to read the inscriptions any more!

States are not Poland. Customs differ.

But there are also cemeteries where nothing changes for centuries:

rsolty:

Of course, they are municipally maintained, not by subscription.

Polish municipal taxes are very low compared to Western ones. In such a case, it is more fair when a family takes care of their graves, isn`t it? What is the sense in maintaining a forlorn grave?

rsolty:

My fault for being "provincial".

Don`t be ironic about Polish customs. Just accept them as they are. If you can`t, just leave and never come back.

delphiandomineThreads: 42 Posts: 9,954 Joined: Nov 25, 08 ♂ [Suspended]	Jun 11, 11, 21:42 #6
pawian: Polish municipal taxes are very low compared to Western ones. In such a case, it is more fair when a family takes care of their graves, isn`t it? Pawian, do you know if there's any ability to pay "forever" for a plot? It seems absolutely dreadful to me, knowing that one day, your grave can be torn up if your family forgets about it.

pawianThreads: 90 Posts: 5,415 Joined: May 30, 08 ♂	Jun 11, 11, 21:45 #7
delphiandomine: Pawian, do you know if there's any ability to pay "forever" for a plot? It seems absolutely dreadful to me, knowing that one day, your grave can be torn up if your family forgets about it. I will try to google it. But, to be honest, if I were you, I wouldn`t worry about my grave after I die.

alexw68

Edited by: alexw68 Jun 11, 11, 22:08 #8

delphiandomine:

Pawian, do you know if there's any ability to pay "forever" for a plot?

Not where population density is a problem.

My Dad had the same issue about 15 years ago when his Mother's grave (Koblenz, Germany) came up for 'renewal' 20 years after her death in 1976. The warning letter never got to him as he'd moved to England about 10 years before. At the 11th hour (and yes, hours were how tight it actually got) he managed to sort something. Close call.

Pinching PeteThreads: 1 Posts: 1,111 Joined: Feb 23, 08 ♂	Jun 11, 11, 22:16 #9
I don't visit cemetaries.. I figure I will be there long enough. :- (

pawianThreads: 90 Posts: 5,415 Joined: May 30, 08 ♂	Jun 11, 11, 22:22 #10
Pinching Pete: I don't visit cemetaries.. I figure I will be there long enough. :- ( You won`t be alone, you can count on us, Pete.

Pinching PeteThreads: 1 Posts: 1,111 Joined: Feb 23, 08 ♂	Jun 11, 11, 22:34 #11
pawian: You won`t be alone, you can count on us, Pete. Thank you my man.. It will be nice to have friends in death.

pawianThreads: 90 Posts: 5,415 Joined: May 30, 08 ♂	Jun 11, 11, 23:09 #12
Pinching Pete: Thank you my man.. It will be nice to have friends in death. Shall we meet in Hell or Heaven?

pawianThreads: 90 Posts: 5,415 Joined: May 30, 08 ♂	Nov 12, 11, 22:51 #13
rsolty: but I also got the impression that it was common practice to put graves right over pre-existing sites, especially if older graves were not "kept up". A cemetery with graves marked for liquidation. http://www.fakt.pl/Naklejki-na-grobach-to-barbarzynstwo-,galeria-artyk ulu,136507,6.html oops, even historical tombstones have been marked.

SoaringSoftlyThreads: 2 Posts: 15 Joined: May 10, 11 ♀	Edited by: SoaringSoftly Apr 16, 12, 18:34 #14
And what is done with the remains and the tombstone? What do the words in red mean in English?

jon357Threads: - Posts: 622 Joined: Mar 15, 12 ♂	Apr 16, 12, 18:41 #15
SoaringSoftly: What do the words in red mean in English? 'Grave earmarked for liquidation' It means nobody is paying for the plot any more. The headline in the article you cited means 'Stickers on graves are barbaric'. At least they didn't paint a big red x on them, as one village priest did a couple of years ago.

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Apr 16, 12, 23:19 #16

Around here (Warmia-Mazury) a number of old cemeteries were flattened in the communist days (usually German/Evangelic) and turned into parks etc. That said, in many village cemeteries there are still many German graves. In some other places I've been (Suwałki, Podlasie) there are large, multi-faith cemeteries from well over a century back.

However, in many places there are still old plots. What has happened in some places is that the old headstones have been collected and turned into a kind of monument.

It's also worth noting that a few decades of Polish winters doesn't always treat a gravestone well, so they can be harder to read (if they still survuve) that one twice the age in Britain, for example.

jon357Threads: - Posts: 622 Joined: Mar 15, 12 ♂	Edited by: jon357 Apr 17, 12, 00:12 #17
Trevek: a number of old cemeteries were flattened in the communist days (usually German/Evangelic) and turned into parks etc In Western Poland too. A strange thing to do in a small village.

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Apr 18, 12, 10:59 #18

jon357:

In Western Poland too. A strange thing to do in a small village.

I was thinking more in the cities, like Olsztyn. There is a park on one side of the town which used to be the evangelic cemetery. There is also a German and Russian war cemetery which was destroyed but has recently been restored, if only symbollically. There are a few WW1 cemeteries in small villages which were destroyed but have been restored recently (containing Russian and German graves)

That said, in a few villages I have been the German cemeteries have been left to go to ruin, if not "helped" a little, but are now being cleaned up in a few places (and not in others).

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