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Polish and proud?


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Polonius3Threads: 1,005
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Joined: Apr 11, 08 ♂ 		Edited by: Moderator  Feb 9, 11, 17:28    #1
At the various Polish fests, fêtes and festivals held esp. in the warmer months across Polish America, in addition to the kie³basa, go³±bki and pierogi circuit, there are the inevitable stalls selling ethnic novelties and bric-a-brac. These include T-shirts with such slogans as 'Polish & proud' and 'Kiss me, I'm Polish!'
That raises the question: If you are Polish, are you proud, and if so -- what of?
This is addressed to the Old World Poles on PF as well as world-wide Polonians of the Diaspora. Assorted poms, limeys, jocks, micks and other...

Idiotic racial slur removed
delphiandomineThreads: 42
Posts: 9,954
Joined: Nov 25, 08 ♂ [Suspended] 		Edited by: delphiandomine  Feb 9, 11, 17:35    #2
Polonius3:
At the various Polish fests, fêtes and festivals held esp. in the warmer months across Polish America, in addition to the kie³basa, go³±bki and pierogi circuit, there are the inevitable stalls selling ethnic novelties and bric-a-brac. These include T-shirts with such slogans as 'Polish & proud' and 'Kiss me, I'm Polish!'
That raises the question: If you are Polish, are you proud, and if so -- what of?


Somehow, I doubt any of them (if actually Polish, which most of them aren't) would actually meet their obligations under Article 85, paragraph 1 of the Polish Constitution.

Let's be honest - 99% of the people visiting such kitsch events are American, not Polish. Perhaps they're Polacks, though.

Could be amusing to attend such a festival and find out just how many of them know how to pronounce their last name properly. Anyone "proud" of being Polish should be able to pronounce their name properly!
guesswhoThreads: 23
Posts: 3,326
Joined: Mar 17, 10 ♀ 		 Feb 9, 11, 17:40    #3
delphiandomine:
Let's be honest - 99% of the people visiting such kitsch events are American


you mean Americans of Polish origin.
delphiandomineThreads: 42
Posts: 9,954
Joined: Nov 25, 08 ♂ [Suspended] 		 Feb 9, 11, 18:00    #4
guesswho:
you mean Americans of Polish origin.


Americans of dubious origin, more like.

It's highly unlikely, given Polish history over the last 1000 years that anyone can claim to be 100% Polish. Heck, Poland has only really been overwhelmingly Polish in the last 65 years. Before that? Forgettaboutit.
SeanBMThreads: 41
Posts: 8,727
Joined: Mar 10, 08 ♂ 		Edited by: SeanBM  Feb 9, 11, 19:35    #5
I noticed something similar in England, when I worked there.
Some Good English people try to celebrate St. Georges day, only to have the BNP crowd turn it into a racial xenophobic hate fest, which is exactly what good people want to avoid.
A bit different in this case as the OP is living it up in the U.S. but still the concept is similar.

mafketis:
It's nicer than when he calls you bog hoppers

I don't know, 'bog hopper' has a nice ring to it ;)
Des EssientesThreads: 11
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Joined: Feb 6, 10  Pictures: 4 ♂ [Suspended] 		 Feb 9, 11, 20:00    #6
Polonius3:
If you are Polish, are you proud, and if so -- what of?

I am a Polish-American and I am very proud of my blond moustache.
mafketisThreads: 17
Posts: 1,880
Joined: Mar 31, 08 ♂ 		 Feb 9, 11, 21:19    #7
Des Essientes:
I am very proud of my blond moustache.


Pornstache FTW!

prONstashe
chichimeraThreads: 3
Posts: 356
Joined: Feb 4, 11  Pictures: 1 ♀ 		 Feb 9, 11, 22:06    #8
Polonius3:
If you are Polish, are you proud, and if so -- what of?

Most of all I'm proud of the language because I know that generations of Poles risked their lives and personal freedom to maintain it. I laugh when someone tells me: don't speak Polish - I think: Who are you to tell me to not use the language that was paid for with blood?

That was the most pompous part :)

Apart from that I am proud of my nation's defiant rebelliousness against authorities. I am glad that Polish journalists and the pepole of media still have a bit of a sense of mission. No matter how aggressive a propaganda is, Polish journalists will still say what they think of it and more importantly - they will still think

I am proud that Polish people have a sense of honour and that they believe in not informing on others, and in the case when they do inform, they will at least try to keep it secret, because they realise it is an absolute disgrace.

I am proud because in Poland we still appreciate the taste of freedom. Unlike many western cultures where people live in psychological cages and stay totally unware of it.

There are a few other things as well, but these are the ones which come to mind first
delphiandomineThreads: 42
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Joined: Nov 25, 08 ♂ [Suspended] 		Edited by: delphiandomine  Feb 9, 11, 22:14    #9
chichimera:
Apart from that I am proud of my nation's defiant rebelliousness against authorities.


What rebelliousness? About the only thing that Poland is rebelling against right now are the proposed cuts to the EU budget - and that's only because Poland has a vested interest in the budget being as high as possible.

chichimera:
I am glad that Polish journalists and the pepole of media still have a bit of a sense of mission. No matter how aggressive a propaganda is, Polish journalists will still say what they think of it and more importantly - they will still think


Sadly, Smolensk proved that to be utter nonsense. Journalists on all "sides" have been guilty of following the party line - there has been precious little thinking going on and too much following blind propoganda. Sadly, in Poland, the concept of "independent media" really doesn't exist here. Polish journalists are sadly of such low quality - even ones who have a real talent, like Monika Olejnik, have resorted to downright partisan behaviour at times.

chichimera:
I am proud that Polish people have a sense of honour and that they believe in not informing on others, and in the case when they do inform, they will at least try to keep it secret, because they realise it is an absolute disgrace.


Certainly isn't true in modern day Poland. People will happily stab others in the back - in fact, backstabbing is seen as something that must be done if you want to rise to the top of your profession. Incidentally, what's disgraceful about reporting illegal behaviour? Don't you think that people should be honour bound to do what's best for the country?

chichimera:
I am proud because in Poland we still appreciate the taste of freedom. Unlike many western cultures where people live in psychological cages and stay totally unware of it.


Uh - I'd say that in Poland, people are as much in a psychological cage as anywhere else. How many times do we see people blaming history for their own inability to cope?

PennBoy:
Get your head out you a**. Yes Poland was much move multi-ethnic before the war but everyone knew who was ethnic Polish and who wasn't most of the time just by looking at someone. I don't care if there are Asians or Brits or Africans in Poland but don't say that they're the same as the indigenous peoples, it's insulting.


I wondered when your racist little head would pop up.

Do you really need it explained again about how ethnic "Poles" are more than likely a mix of nationalities and races?
chichimeraThreads: 3
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Joined: Feb 4, 11  Pictures: 1 ♀ 		 Feb 9, 11, 22:41    #10
delphiandomine:
What rebelliousness?

I'm glad to know your opinion, yet I think I have lived amongst Poles long enough to know what I'm talking about.

delphiandomine:
the concept of "independent media" really doesn't exist here

you should really take a closer look at the British media. Here not only the concept of independent media, but even the concept of professional journalism hardly exists

delphiandomine:
what's disgraceful about reporting illegal behaviour

I wasn't talking about reporting a crime, but about reporting on your coleagues, workmates etc. If you have a sense of honour you should have the guts to speak to the colleague first, if you don't have the guts to speak to them, then you should shut up. Beacuse running to any sort of authority and reporting on your colleague's faults is what kids at school do, not grown-up men.

Obviously I am aware that it takes all sorts in any nation. I simply answered the thread, but you are perfectly free not to share my pride
WroclawThreads: 77
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Joined: Apr 1, 06  Pictures: 3 ♂ [Moderator] 		 Feb 9, 11, 22:49    #11
chichimera:
Beacuse running to any sort of authority and reporting on your colleague's faults is what kids at school do, not grown-up men.


you don't seem to have spent much time in the workplace
southernThreads: 116
Posts: 10,959
Joined: May 17, 07 ♂ 		 Feb 9, 11, 22:54    #12
chichimera:
Beacuse running to any sort of authority and reporting on your colleague's faults is what kids at school do, not grown-up men.


We call them ''nails.''Women constantly do that to gain the favor of the boss.
Polonius3Threads: 1,005
Posts: 4,835
Joined: Apr 11, 08 ♂ 		 Feb 11, 11, 00:01    #13
Things Poles/Polonians can be proud of:
-- Poles welcomed Jews and religious dissenters fleeing being burnt at the stake and other forms of persecution in the 'enlightened' West;
-- Poland was a bulwark of Christianity against invading pagan hordes at Legnica in the 13th century, at Vienna in the 17th century and at the gates of Warsaw in 1920 and brought and end to the enslavement of half of Europe in 1980-1989; will it also manage to resist the onslaught of today's aggressive, toxic, mind-polluting pop culture remains to be seen;
-- Poles never conquered and exploited the hapless people of overseas colonies the way the Brits, French and Spanish did;
-- Poles fought for 'Your freedom and ours' in defence of many nations including the USA, Haiti, Italy, Hungary, Britain and Holland;
-- In the Battle of Britain Polish aviators had a better kill record than the Brits who were presumably defending their own homeland;
-- Poles have largely remained true to their motto 'Polonia semper fidelis' and 'Bóg - Honor - Ojczyzna';
– Poland has more religious vocations per capita than most or all other European countries;
-- Poland has lower crime, abortion, suicide and divorce rates than many other countries.
– More Polish Americans per capita fought for America’s freedom in the First and Second World Wars than most other ethnic groups;
– Polish Americans have long enjoyed a reputation of a hard-working, law-abiding community that faithfully pays their taxes, keeps up their homes and keeps their kids out of trouble.
-- Poles and Polonians rank amongst the bravest and most hospitable people found anywhere.

Many more things could be cited, but that will have to do for staters!
jonniThreads: 26
Posts: 4,181
Joined: Nov 27, 07 ♂ 		Edited by: jonni  Feb 11, 11, 00:10    #14
Polonius3:
-- Poles welcomed Jews and religious dissenters fleeing being burnt at the stake and other forms of persecution in the 'enlightened' West;

and then one of them comes out with crap like:
Polonius3:
poms, limeys, jocks, micks and other...


Polonius3:
will it also manage to resist the onslaught of today's aggressive, toxic, mind-polluting pop culture remains to be seen;

Have you ever actually lived in Poland? If so, when was the last time?

Quit the 'cut n' paste' and let's have some facts - when were you last there?
SeanBMThreads: 41
Posts: 8,727
Joined: Mar 10, 08 ♂ 		Edited by: SeanBM  Feb 11, 11, 00:18    #15
Polonius3:
Things Poles/Polonians can be proud of:

There are a multitude of things Polish people could/should be proud of P3.
I just don't get you, why do you have to start off with xenophobic slurs, were you just trying to be provocative to stimulate your thread or are you just a douche, what gives man?
Bratwurst BoyThreads: 11
Posts: 14,563
Joined: Apr 2, 07 ♂ 		 Feb 11, 11, 00:26    #16
Polonius3:
Things Poles/Polonians can be proud of:


Christianity and war mostly???
delphiandomineThreads: 42
Posts: 9,954
Joined: Nov 25, 08 ♂ [Suspended] 		 Feb 11, 11, 00:30    #17
Polonius3:
-- Poles welcomed Jews and religious dissenters fleeing being burnt at the stake and other forms of persecution in the 'enlightened' West;


And then they started killing them and betraying them later.

Polonius3:
and brought and end to the enslavement of half of Europe in 1980-1989


That was the Soviet Union that decided that, not Poland. I don't think Poland would have survived any invasion from the SU, somehow - not when there were plenty of Czechs, East Germans and Lithuanians willing to do the nasty.

Polonius3:
-- Poles never conquered and exploited the hapless people of overseas colonies the way the Brits, French and Spanish did;


Ahem - do you need reminded about the annexation of Vilnius and other territories?

Polonius3:
– More Polish Americans per capita fought for America’s freedom in the First and Second World Wars than most other ethnic groups;


Shame they're such racist scumbags. Then again, the fact that they were fighting for America rather than Poland during the World Wars....says it all.

Polonius3:
-- Poles and Polonians rank amongst the bravest and most hospitable people found anywhere.


Brave? Would that include the cowardly act of killing defenceless Jews and Ukrainians and generally taking advantage of weakened countries to annex part of their territories?
jonniThreads: 26
Posts: 4,181
Joined: Nov 27, 07 ♂ 		Edited by: jonni  Feb 11, 11, 00:38    #18
delphiandomine:

Ahem - do you need reminded about the annexation of Vilnius and other territories?

Not to mention that during the age of empires Poland didn't exist as a legal or administrative entity. If they had, they'd doubtless have wanted their share - even Belgium and Denmark whined so much that in the end they got some colonies.

Plus of course the days when Poland's empire stretched as far as the Black Sea...
chichimeraThreads: 3
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Joined: Feb 4, 11  Pictures: 1 ♀ 		 Feb 11, 11, 00:45    #19
SeanBM:
I just don't get you, why do you have to start off with xenophobic slurs


true. I think this is the difficult part in patriotism generally - to stay away from trying to prove that one's nation is superior to the others. Patriotism is often poisoned by BNP/M³odzie¿ Wszechpolska way of thinking.

Personally, I am convinced that it is possible to be proud of one's country and still stay respectful towards other countries. I have met people from all over the world and I love it when they tell me what they are proud of - and I think it's because I love my country in a positive way so I can relate to and understand what they feel when they talk about their national pride

It's like with personal relationships - we can choose the option of envying and hating others or we can choose the option of appreciation and learn from them. And the latter is much more beneficial for everyone :)
Des EssientesThreads: 11
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Joined: Feb 6, 10  Pictures: 4 ♂ [Suspended] 		 Feb 11, 11, 00:45    #20
delphiandomine:
Shame they're such racist scumbags.

Calling all Polish-Americans racist scumbags is a gross generalization for which you should apologize.
jonni:
Not to mention that during the age of empires Poland didn't exist as a legal or administrative entity. If they had, they'd doubtless have wanted their share - even Belgium and Denmark whined so much that in the end they got some colonies.

Making Poland guilty of colonialism by counterfactual assumption is totally ridiculous you should apologize as well.
delphiandomineThreads: 42
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Joined: Nov 25, 08 ♂ [Suspended] 		 Feb 11, 11, 00:47    #21
Des Essientes:
Calling all Polish-Americans racist scumbags is a gross generalization for which you should apologize.


Okay, they're big racist Polack scumbags.

Better? The amount of racism on here from Polish-Americans is staggering - certainly, much more than can be seen from real Poles.

Des Essientes:
Making Poland guilty of colonialism by counterfactual assumption is totally ridiculous you should apologize as well.


Poland annexed quite a few territories and denied self-determination to quite a few people in the period 1918-1939. Sounds like colonialism to me.
skysoulmateThreads: 41
Posts: 3,039
Joined: Jan 10, 10 ♂ 		 Feb 11, 11, 00:47    #22
delphiandomine:
Shame they're such racist scumbags...


What the hell are you talking about??
delphiandomineThreads: 42
Posts: 9,954
Joined: Nov 25, 08 ♂ [Suspended] 		 Feb 11, 11, 00:48    #23
skysoulmate:
What the hell are you talking about??


The sadly vast amount of racism on this forum and elsewhere from Polish-Americans :(
jonniThreads: 26
Posts: 4,181
Joined: Nov 27, 07 ♂ 		 Feb 11, 11, 00:49    #24
Des Essientes:
Making Poland guilty of colonialism by counterfactual assumption is totally ridiculous you should apologize as well.

You are an idiot, a prickly one too, not least because Poland is as guilty of colonialism as their neighbours. Hop on a tram to the Royal Castle and have a look at the old map on the throne room wall.
Bratwurst BoyThreads: 11
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Joined: Apr 2, 07 ♂ 		Edited by: Bratwurst Boy  Feb 11, 11, 00:54    #25
What's the point?

Not far back in time it was a great source of pride to actually have an empire!
The Brits still harp back to those good 'ol times...And Germany too was once a good deal
larger, so was Spain, France and yes, Poland too...so were the times, either you feasted on your neighbours (and other continents) or they did feast on you.

Never having gained more land through war ever is...what actually? An admission of being a weakling always??? ;)

Religion on the other hand is for sure no source of pride...but then...I'm a heathen! :)
chichimeraThreads: 3
Posts: 356
Joined: Feb 4, 11  Pictures: 1 ♀ 		 Feb 11, 11, 00:54    #26
jonni:
You are an idiot, a prickly one too, not least because Poland is as guilty of colonialism as their neighbours.


A fight for territory is not quite the same as colonialism (often combined with extermination of the natives)
jonniThreads: 26
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Joined: Nov 27, 07 ♂ 		 Feb 11, 11, 00:59    #27
chichimera:
A fight for territory is not quite the same as colonialism

Exactly! And the Black Sea coast wasn't something Poland ever needed or was forced to fight for.
Bratwurst Boy:
Never having gained more land ever is...what actually? An admission of being a weakling always??? ;)

More a missed opportunity or a lack of ambition. Poland had neither.
Des EssientesThreads: 11
Posts: 2,318
Joined: Feb 6, 10  Pictures: 4 ♂ [Suspended] 		 Feb 11, 11, 01:00    #28
jonni:
You are an idiot, a prickly one too, not least because Poland is as guilty of colonialism as their neighbours. Hop on a tram to the Royal Castle and have a look at the old map on the throne room wall.

I can acknowledge that the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth did mistreat Ruthenia, but your claim that the Poles are somehow guilty of the sort of imperial colonialism exercised by Western European states in the 19th and 20th centuries remains ridiculous and you have now also shown yourself to be a mannerless cad.
Bratwurst BoyThreads: 11
Posts: 14,563
Joined: Apr 2, 07 ♂ 		 Feb 11, 11, 01:01    #29
jonni:
More a missed opportunity or a lack of ambition. Poland had neither.


As far as I gathered did Poland had it's time in the sun once too...during the commonwealth? No?
Poland had been quite big in Europe back then...
jonniThreads: 26
Posts: 4,181
Joined: Nov 27, 07 ♂ 		 Feb 11, 11, 01:05    #30
Bratwurst Boy:
As far as I gathered did Poland had it's time in the sun once too...during the commonwealth? No?

Exactly that! From the Baltic to the Black Sea. But for some it's more fun to play the eternal victim than cherish a brief moment of glory.

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