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Rich man, poor man - today`s Poland


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pawianThreads: 90
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Joined: May 30, 08  Pictures: 2 ♂ 		 Jul 20, 11, 17:10    #1
The title of the thread refers to an American TV miniseries which was also shown on Polish TV in late 1970s. I vaguely remember those times, how the family sat down in front of the TV set and all watched the episodes with utter fascination.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rich_Man,_Poor_Man_%28TV_miniseries%29

Based on the best-selling 1970 novel by Irwin Shaw, it spanned the period from 1945 through the late 1960s and followed the divergent career courses of the impoverished German immigrant Jordache brothers. Rudy was the rich man of the title, a well-educated and very ambitious entrepreneur who triumphed over his background and constructed a corporate and political empire. Poor man Tom was a rebel who eventually turned to boxing to support himself.

Why am I mentioning it at all?

Today`s Poland resembles the story of two brothers - one is poor, the other is rich. And I still watch it with fascination.


According to the UN, Poland is a developed country. It occupies the 41th position on the 42 country list.

The latest index was released on November 4, 2010 and covers the period up to 2008. The following are the 42 countries classified as possessing a "Very high human development" with an HDI at or above 0.788 and are considered as "developed countries".[12]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Developed_country

According to Newsweek's quality-of-life survey of 2010, Poland occupies 29th position.

Research[24] about standards of living and quality of life by Newsweek, resulted in the "world's best countries" index, measuring: "health, education, economy, and politics". As of 15/8/2010, the highest-ranked countries are:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Developed_country

At the same time, those who live here can witness how people barely make ends meet and struggle with economic hardships.

Let`s bring up facts which show this double nature of modern Poland.


I read that due to budget cuts in the police, officers have to buy and bring to work their own rubbers, pencils and other stationery stuff. The electronic equpiment they use at stations is antiquated.
f
However, the latest bomb threats in Krakow are dealt with by means of hi-tech device:

f
Marynka11Threads: 8
Posts: 1,447
Joined: Nov 3, 10 ♀ 		Edited by: Marynka11  Jul 20, 11, 17:40    #2
Looking from the outsider position for the last 12 years, I think Poland's growth is immense. The life quality is improving year by year (at least looking at my family members). I have two brothers who live in Poland and I live in the States but materially we are doing similarly. So no rich and poor man in my family.

But the three of us have one thing in common: we know how to work hard.
SzwedwPolsceThreads: 13
Posts: 1,915
Joined: Feb 21, 09 ♂ 		Edited by: SzwedwPolsce  Jul 20, 11, 17:45    #3
pawian:
I read that due to budget cuts in the police, officers have to buy and bring to work their own rubbers, pencils and other stationery stuff.

If that is true, it is completely crazy.

However, there is a lot of rationalisation needed in the public administration. Bureaucracy is very expensive.
Marynka11Threads: 8
Posts: 1,447
Joined: Nov 3, 10 ♀ 		 Jul 20, 11, 17:53    #4
pawian:

I read that due to budget cuts in the police, officers have to buy and bring to work their own rubbers, pencils and other stationery stuff.

By the way, why whenever people decide to save money they start with pencils and erasers? The do that in the States too. How is the $50 a year going to make a difference?
ShawnHThreads: 9
Posts: 3,056
Joined: Jul 2, 09 ♂ 		 Jul 20, 11, 18:08    #5
Marynka11:
How is the $50 a year going to make a difference?

It is more of an over-used "Statement". Having management ration these items, it is supposed to create an awareness of the times and instill thrift in employee behaviour. More times than not, it is followed by layoffs. It is rare to see really creative cost cutting measures than already mentioned. Those that are able to think outside the box are to be envied and emulated.
pawianThreads: 90
Posts: 5,415
Joined: May 30, 08  Pictures: 2 ♂ 		 Jul 23, 11, 20:02    #6
Palivec - The public sphere is "polluted" by graffity, but even more by adverts, all over Poland. To me it looks horrible to see all these ugly, cheap adverts everywhere.


There are cheap adverts, I agree
d

s


and more sophisticated ones:

s

d

s
gumishuThreads: 17
Posts: 3,943
Joined: Apr 6, 09  Pictures: 1 ♂ 		 Jul 23, 11, 22:50    #7
By the way, why whenever people decide to save money they start with pencils and erasers? The do that in the States too. How is the $50 a year going to make a difference?


in Poland they have already done (starting late 2008) most possible cuts on the fuel expenses for police - and it shows in the streets and in the reports how the police work in many cases (you have to understand Polish and watch Polish TV from time to time to hear about these things mostly)
Grzegorz_Threads: 81
Posts: 6,213
Joined: Nov 16, 06 ♂ 		 Jul 23, 11, 23:08    #8
Palivec - The public sphere is "polluted" by graffity, but even more by adverts, all over Poland.


And the government of course should control it and say which of them are "nice" enough ? You're a nazi just like your grandpas, not surprisig really.

Rich man, poor man - today`s Poland


Yeah, rich 1%, poor 99%.
pawianThreads: 90
Posts: 5,415
Joined: May 30, 08  Pictures: 2 ♂ 		Edited by: pawian  Jul 23, 11, 23:12    #9
Grzegorz- Yeah, rich 1%, poor 99%.

Tragic.

I mean, you are tragic.
Grzegorz_Threads: 81
Posts: 6,213
Joined: Nov 16, 06 ♂ 		 Jul 23, 11, 23:23    #10
I mean, you are tragic.


Fascinating, you being the teacher obviously belong to rich, am I not right ?
pawianThreads: 90
Posts: 5,415
Joined: May 30, 08  Pictures: 2 ♂ 		Edited by: pawian  Jul 23, 11, 23:28    #11
Fascinating, you being the teacher obviously belong to rich, am I not right ?

It is fascinating to see how you pretend not to know the fact that there is still a lot of room between rich and poor. And that is where most people fit.
SeanusThreads: 22
Posts: 30,158
Joined: Dec 25, 07 ♂ 		 Jul 24, 11, 17:50    #12
We will see a growing divide under PO and the schism need not get any bigger. Having classes in society has its plusses and Tusk must continue to look at what the poorer people in Poland contribute. The economy thrives due to a totality of factors and not merely big business. We all make our contribution based on who we are and some of those 'lower end' jobs serve a useful purpose. Reward those who follow who they are in the job world and not by the GDP they generate.
pawianThreads: 90
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Joined: May 30, 08  Pictures: 2 ♂ 		Edited by: pawian  Jul 27, 11, 17:34    #13
good luck. i hope you change water in the bath tub after your wife :)

That was a joke which might cause some misunderstanding. :):):):)

I suppose that most guys from US who know nothing about Poland still believe we, Poles, live in huts, do slave work in lords` fields and bring water from a nearby lake or river.

What is the reality? (all photos from Krakow)

Most people live in apartment blocks which were built in communist times. Only a few remained in their original ugly shape:
d

the majority has been insulated and repainted.

s

Blocks are usually grouped in estates, among abundant greenery

d


Modern blocks are much nicer:

d

d

d


Urban flats/apartments vary in size, some are very small, other quite big. People have hot and cold water, a seperate toilet, central heating from the city`s power station, gas heating for daily water. What else? Lifts/elevators in high rise buildings.


People who can afford high cost of land in cities can buy or build a house which looks like that:

Very few ot that kind:
d

d



Many of that kind, from the times when moronic communist authorities forced people to build the same square houses everywhere.
d

d

d

And more and more new houses of this type:
d



Ooops, I almost forgot. If you live in the city center, it is usually dense area, built up with houses. So, you can live in an old 19/20 century old house

d

d

or a modern filling
d





TBC with country houses.
teflcatThreads: 6
Posts: 1,076
Joined: May 29, 11 ♂ 		 Jul 27, 11, 17:41    #14
Very few ot that kind:

Hey! That's my house you bsatard!
pawianThreads: 90
Posts: 5,415
Joined: May 30, 08  Pictures: 2 ♂ 		Edited by: pawian  Jul 27, 11, 17:51    #15
=teflcat]Hey! That's my house you bsatard!

great! Can I visit you one day to take pics of the inside? People are curious what the interior of such a house is like....

PS. I forgot to add - no typical slums in Poland.
d
teflcatThreads: 6
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Joined: May 29, 11 ♂ 		 Jul 27, 11, 17:55    #16
Where the hell is that?
isthatu2Threads: 13
Posts: 5,228
Joined: Apr 3, 08 ♂ 		 Jul 27, 11, 18:00    #17
Rio do Dzenero?
pawianThreads: 90
Posts: 5,415
Joined: May 30, 08  Pictures: 2 ♂ 		 Jul 27, 11, 18:27    #18
=teflcat]Where the hell is that?

Clikc on the pic and read its name.
pipThreads: 11
Posts: 1,293
Joined: Jul 4, 11 ♀ 		 Jul 27, 11, 19:09    #19
It is Manila
pawianThreads: 90
Posts: 5,415
Joined: May 30, 08  Pictures: 2 ♂ 		Edited by: pawian  Jul 27, 11, 19:33    #20
It is Manila

Yes!!

The worst slums in Poland are scruffy communist blocks:

d

and neglected 19 century houses:
f

d
pawianThreads: 90
Posts: 5,415
Joined: May 30, 08  Pictures: 2 ♂ 		 Jul 27, 11, 22:05    #21
An aerial view of a typical Polish city: (photos of Poznań)

The medieval Old Town:


d

f


19/20 century and pre-war districts

d

d

d

Socialist
d

d

and capitalist blocks
d

Detached houses district
d


Final view:
d


To see more views of Polish cities
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=265790

Poznań
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=399203&page=5
Monia  Jul 27, 11, 22:54    #22
Thanks for this link, Pawian ; my favorite cities and places are : beloved Warsaw, Torun beautifully renovated and the unique Hel penisula . Look at the roofs of houses in Zamość - all have got copper tiles , which over the years has been covered with a beautiful greenish colour.
isthatu2Threads: 13
Posts: 5,228
Joined: Apr 3, 08 ♂ 		 Jul 27, 11, 23:01    #23
Warszawa:
Oh wow, is that really the new skyline ? Thats some serious change in 5 years :)
pawianThreads: 90
Posts: 5,415
Joined: May 30, 08  Pictures: 2 ♂ 		 Jul 27, 11, 23:03    #24
=Monia] beloved Warsaw,

Yes, Warsaw is a beautiful city.

But very expensive one. People there have the highest salaries in Poland, equal to European average, but prices of apartments or houses or rent are horrendous, too.
pawianThreads: 90
Posts: 5,415
Joined: May 30, 08  Pictures: 2 ♂ 		Edited by: pawian  Jul 27, 11, 23:12    #25
Oh wow, is that really the new skyline ? Thats some serious change in 5 years :)

:):):)
It is better to see the Warsaw skyline at night:

d

d

d

During the day it is a bit dull:
d


Though for a comer from Eastern Poland countryside it must look like the West no matter day or night.

d

d
isthatu2Threads: 13
Posts: 5,228
Joined: Apr 3, 08 ♂ 		 Jul 27, 11, 23:14    #26
I dont like:(:(......homogenisation..but, I suppose its a good sign for Poland and thats what counts :)
Monia  Jul 27, 11, 23:15    #27
Thats some serious change in 5 years :)


Warsaw will even look better next year with a lot of new roads and other infrastructure constructions to be built in the upcoming year .

prices of apartments or houses or rent are horrendous, too.


That is true . There is a new apartment complex next to the Hilton hotel, where the price per square meter was $ 10 000. Foreign investments make such prices skyrocket .
isthatu2Threads: 13
Posts: 5,228
Joined: Apr 3, 08 ♂ 		 Jul 27, 11, 23:23    #28
Warsaw will even look better next year with a lot of new roads and other infrastructure constructions to be built in the upcoming year .

Dont get rid of the Trams in a rush to "modernise" we in the UK are just realising how great they were but its costing a fortune to re build the lines :(
maybe the best thing about the new skyline is its "Free Polishness"..............I mean,when I was there the main visual image of "modern Warsaw" was pictures of Stalins mini sky scrapper (which,I like,but...) ,now I suppose its the mini Mannhattan skyline in the tourist brouchures?
pawianThreads: 90
Posts: 5,415
Joined: May 30, 08  Pictures: 2 ♂ 		Edited by: pawian  Jul 27, 11, 23:33    #29
maybe the best thing about the new skyline is its "Free Polishness"..............I mean,when I was there the main visual image of "modern Warsaw" was pictures of Stalins mini sky scrapper (which,I like,but...) ,now I suppose its the mini Mannhattan skyline in the tourist brouchures?

It is funny but most of those sky scrapers which surround that communist monster were meant to screen it and diminish in the skyline. But if you look at the picture, you will see it is still the highest.
Maybe next year, as Monia says, some new developments will surpass and shadow it. :):):):)
Monia  Jul 27, 11, 23:34    #30
Dont get rid of the Trams in a rush to "modernise" we in the UK

Not at all , we are modernizing lines and trams , but they will stay here in Warsaw as part of the whole urban transportation system . Don`t worry :)

It is the newest type .
http://pl.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Plik:Pesa_Warszawa.jpg&filet imestamp=20090914141517

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