The "Rudification" Of Society - Is This Happening In Poland As Well?

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Sep 10, 10, 14:10 #1

In the West, with the event of the rise of Right to higher levels, society has become more rude and compassion (as far as I know supposed to be a Christian value) has virtually disappeared: hatred and fear roam the minds of the masses and for the first time since WW2 it seems this phaenomena is more evident than any other property. Hate- and fearmongering populists are rising to unknown heights and even gain governemental powers, a situation unthinkable within civilized states, yet it is happening.
Of course, the obvious parallel would be what happened in the 1930's, but I don't think it will get this far (although you never know), but yet I am pretty concerned about the growing rudeness, impoliteness one witnesses in the respective societies. Ppl are openly discussing tactics used by the Nazis as being good (bookburning) and are talking in a way about their fellow ppl that I have never witnessed before the last few years. It's normal to become rude about other ppl most of us don't even know personally and it seems like the Christian Right-Wing is gaining the upperhand and typical Christian values seem to evaporate. I am not religious myself, but I do find it strange that ppl who have their mouth full of Christian values and virtues, just as easy throw these overboard when it comes to discussing certain other groups of society.

It's a scary phaenomena and I for one don't believe it comes forth out of "realism", a thing on which hatemongerers are claiming to base themselves upon, but more out of either fear, simplicity or unhappiness with the current economic situation.

What I would like to know is - what are your thoughts on the grim mindset we see in so many ppl nowadays and do you notice this happening in Poland too? And if this is a phaenomena which can be cured by educating ppl, how would you tackle this problem? For it's imo a problem when hate starts to rule and reason goes out of the window.

>^..^<

M-G (tiens)

BzibziohThreads: 6 Posts: 3,657 Joined: Oct 15, 08 ♀ [Suspended]	Sep 10, 10, 14:24 #2
MareGaea: In the West, with the event of the rise of Right to higher levels, society has become more rude and compassion (as far as I know supposed to be a Christian value) has virtually disappeared: That's a BS. It has been proven that "Rightists" states in the US are far more generous and compassionate than the "leftists" one. Quit your silly attempts of denigrating conservatives.

1jolaThreads: 33 Posts: 2,737 Joined: Sep 23, 08 ♂	Edited by: 1jola Sep 10, 10, 14:25 #3
MareGaea: In the West, with the event of the rise of Right to higher levels, society has become more rude and compassion No, MG, the problem of rudness, vulgarity ,decadence, and violence is more of the Left; just look around you. Did you not get a vacation from your master?

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Edited by: MareGaea Sep 10, 10, 14:28 #4

Bzibzioh:

That's a BS. It has been proven that "Rightists" states in the US are far more generous and compassionate than the "leftists" one. Quit your silly attempts of denigrating conservatives.

How has this been proven? Just another statement coming from the Christian RightWing? And stop your personal attacks - I know you're insecure and for you it's a way of life to attack others on personal grounds, but try to stop it and keep the discussion about this very real phaenomena civilized. Thanks.

1jola:

No, MG, the problem of rudness, vulgarity ,decadence, and violence is more of the Left; just look around you.

It's a typical phaenomena of the last few years and Right-Wing thinking is very severely present. How's life as a coffeeboy in the army lately? I heard that's what they make of "heroes" that flee the country when things are bad.

>^..^<

M-G (tiens)

♀ [Suspended]

Sep 10, 10, 14:55 #5

MareGaea:

How has this been proven?

Every year they are collecting money for the poor before Christmas and every year 'rightist' states are able to collect couple of times more than any 'leftists' one.

MareGaea:

It's a typical phaenomena of the last few years and Right-Wing thinking is very severely present.

It's another BS. Read about a degradation of society in the UK with Tony Blair coming to power.

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Sep 10, 10, 14:56 #6

I don't know about European 'nuts', whether left wing or right wing but here in the U.S. the left wing crazies outdo anyone else for nuttiness. Some have been busted for impersonating tea party protesters; others shout down conservative speakers on campuses and some even threaten establishments http://www.sodahead.com/living/psssst---did-you-hear---violent-left-wi ng-nuts-riot-burn-down-a-coffee-house/blog-333821/ ......all in the name of 'fairness' of course.

Only Fox News carried this riot which of course makes that news network "hateful". The other news outlets (typically) ignored it because it did not fit the liberal news template. However, if a tea party activist sneezes, those same outlets will blame that person for spreading diseases.

With few exceptions, the left has hijacked the general news media in the U.S. One can only imagine the front page stories if tea party people behaved in the same manner as those demonstrated in the link above.

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Edited by: MareGaea Sep 10, 10, 14:59 #7

Bzibzioh:

Every year they are collecting money for the poor before Christmas and every year 'rightist' states are able to collect couple of times more than any 'leftists' one.

So happens in NL and that's considered a typical "Leftie" state. We helped the Poles every winter when I was young. But how do collections for good causes wipe out the other stuff?

Bzibzioh:

Tony Blair

Tony Blair is not a trend.

How can ppl who collect money for whatever good cause, condone things like bookburning?

ZIMMY:

Only Fox News carried

But that's only because Fox news is liaised to the Republican party. And the Republican party is known for it's dirty way of dealing with things when not in power.

>^..^<

M-G (tiens)

aphrodisiacThreads: 22 Posts: 3,998 Joined: Apr 15, 09 ♀	Edited by: aphrodisiac Sep 10, 10, 15:00 #8
societies become more self- centered, narcissistic and oriented on ME, it has nothing to do with the Righ or the Left way of thinking, nor religion. I am rude to people who are rude to me, and compassionate to people who are compassionate towards me. Simple. Turning the other cheek is not something I believe in.

MareGaeaThreads: 45 Posts: 5,527 Joined: Feb 6, 08 ♂	Edited by: MareGaea Sep 10, 10, 15:04 #9
aphrodisiac: societies become more self- centered, narcissistic and oriented on ME, it has nothing to do with the Righ or the Left way of thinking, nor religion. Is there a connection between this and the rising to power of the populists? http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/03/25/republicans-condemn-viole_n_5 13211.html >^..^< M-G (tiens)

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Sep 10, 10, 15:12 #10

MareGaea:

Fox news is liaised to the Republican party. And the Republican party is known for it's dirty way of dealing with things when not in power.

You seem confused and you ignored the issue. The point I made is this; the general news outlets ignored a story (one of many) that shows liberals, leftists, rioting and damaging property and scuffling with the police.

If this happened at a tea party rally then it would be front page news with every major outlet. The fact that this story was briefly noted is a credit to Fox News. So the real question is this;
why does the general news media censor negative activity by the left?

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Edited by: MareGaea Sep 10, 10, 15:21 #11

ZIMMY:

The point I made is this; the general news outlets ignored a story (one of many) that shows liberals, leftists, rioting and damaging property and scuffling with the police.

Read the link I added in the previous post. Our Tea Party friends know how to dish out some violence and damaging of properties as well. And if I assume right that those pro-lifers are part of the same target audience as the Tea Parties, they even kill ppl. And imo that is a bit worse than damaging some property or shouting through a conservative speech.

The media doesn't censor left violence as info on the disturbances (which probably are only minor incidents, but given the way the Republicans always exaggerate things, it's a "huge" ocurrance) is widely available on the internet.

But pls read the first post to know what the topic is we are here discussing. Let's stay on track. Thanks.

>^..^<

M-G (tiens)

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Sep 10, 10, 15:21 #12

One more quick point; accusing Fox News of being a Republican outlet is laughable when comparing it to NBC; MSNBC, CBS and ABC which can more easily be accused of being Democratic Party fronts. There are more liberal news outlets than conservative ones so accusations against Fox News fall flat just based on sheer numbers.

Fox News always posits an opposing viewpoint. On staff are liberals who daily contribute and that is more than can be said about MSNBC for instance. On occasion, two liberals can be seen arguing against one conservative on Fox. That's more fair coverage than the other news outlets give.

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Edited by: aphrodisiac Sep 10, 10, 15:22 #13

MareGaea:

Is there a connection between this and the rising to power of the populists?

I already stated my opinion. Political trends are a direct result of what is happening withing the society at present, not the other way around. Democracy and populism go hand in hand.

We like the benefits of democracy, but don't know how to handle the negatives. Once cannot exist without the other. Two sides of the same coin.

(not in a mood for serious discussion about saving the world today)

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Edited by: southern Sep 10, 10, 15:22 #14

The problem is middle class incompetence.The youth sees no future at all.If you don't have a degree immigrants take your job and if you have a degree offsprings with connections take your job.So the young generation sees a black future.Instinctively they understand that the problem is the immigrants who create wealth for the upper and middle class and the solidarity of euro middle classes.The youth feels suffocated in this context and rebels according to local cultural tradition the way you describe in Holland or burning shops and banks in Greece.

Several basic principles on which the system was founded(like solidarity,superiority of the average,power of the mass,dribbling down of wealth,university as a means to equality etc) are now doubted in conscious and unconscious level.

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Edited by: MareGaea Sep 10, 10, 15:37 #15

ZIMMY:

One more quick point; accusing Fox News of being a Republican outlet is laughable when comparing it to NBC; MSNBC, CBS and ABC which can more easily be accused of being Democratic Party fronts. There are more liberal news outlets than conservative ones so accusations against Fox News fall flat just based on sheer numbers

Fox News is owned by a member of the Bush family, I forget his name. And don't forget that the Democrats are only recently in power. And didn't Fox already called Bush winner before all Floridian votes were counted in 2000?

Anyway, back to the topic.

>^..^<

M-G (tiens)

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Edited by: ZIMMY Sep 10, 10, 15:41 #16

MareGaea:

Our Tea Party friends know how to dish out some violence and damaging of properties as well.

I've been to four tea party events and therefore I know better than you. I go as an observer and those gatherings are home-spun, vocal yet peaceful and only those who get their news from the vast liberal outlets don't seem to know this. These are good people.

MareGaea:

f I assume right that those pro-lifers are part of the same target audience as the Tea Parties, they even kill ppl.

Tea party activists can be either pro life or not. They are concerned with the growth of government, higher taxes and individual rights. As to threats, you are probably unfamiliar with the ones that Republican candidates received, right? Here is just one example; http://blogs.kansascity.com/crime_scene/2010/03/house-republican-says- he-was-threatened-too.html.

As an objective observer I can tell you that the vituperative language of the left is more shrill than any of the right. In addition, the rioting that is often ignored by the general media is also a product of the left. Deal with it.

Quick edit; you note; "don't forget that the Democrats are only recently in power."
Not true; the Democrats took over Congress during the 2006 elections. They've been in power for four years now. Odd, how that coincided with the beginning of economic troubles.

The same thing happened in 1994 only in reverse when Republicans took control of Congress. As we know that's when the economy grew. Lots of people don't understand that Congress, particularly the House of Representatives is responsible for spending as well as programs. It isn't just a president dictating policy.

MareGaeaThreads: 45 Posts: 5,527 Joined: Feb 6, 08 ♂	Sep 10, 10, 15:45 #17
aphrodisiac: not in a mood for serious discussion about saving the world today What's the matter with you? >^..^< M-G (tiens)

aphrodisiacThreads: 22 Posts: 3,998 Joined: Apr 15, 09 ♀	Sep 10, 10, 15:50 #18
MareGaea: What's the matter with you? what do you mean? Just don't tell me you mean a millions things.

MareGaeaThreads: 45 Posts: 5,527 Joined: Feb 6, 08 ♂	Sep 10, 10, 15:52 #19
I think you very well know what I mean. Don't want to say it out in the open, and I'm not going to, even though it's the only way left. >^..^< M-G (tiens)

aphrodisiacThreads: 22 Posts: 3,998 Joined: Apr 15, 09 ♀	Sep 10, 10, 16:02 #20
MareGaea: I think you very well know what I mean. Don't want to say it out in the open, and I'm not going to, even though it's the only way left. check you PM

nunczkaThreads: 17 Posts: 624 Joined: Sep 13, 08 ♂	Sep 10, 10, 16:21 #21
Fox News Rules P2+ Prime Time FNC – 1,371,000 viewers CNN – 469,000 viewers MSNBC –547,000 viewers CNBC – 192,000 viewers HLN – 282,000 viewers

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Sep 10, 10, 18:12 #22

Nothing happens in a vacuum. Every coice produces consequences, every action causes a reaction. The rise of libertinism in the news, entertainment and advertising media and even in the school system provokes an understandable backlash which libertine-liberal leftists may see as a hate offesnive. But they fail to see that their libertine offensive disgusts many people who don't want their kids exposed to all that porn and overall permissiveness. This fucntions not only within a single society. It is not libertine lifestyles that may well speed up the world-wide Muslim reaction to the fith and decadence? Marx once said the capitalists will sell the rope on which they will hanged. Maybe the decadent West is actually libertinising itself to death without realising it.

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Sep 10, 10, 22:31 #23

Post 8 from aphro is the best here. Let's forget about the label slapping, that him from the 'Right' did that or her from the 'Left' said that. Politics is one big scrap and people will be how people will be independently of that.

Poles will have seen how the other half live and they will want to emulate their 'achievements'. The problem is, there are winners and losers in that game and rudeness emerges from both.

aphrodisiacThreads: 22 Posts: 3,998 Joined: Apr 15, 09 ♀	Edited by: aphrodisiac Sep 10, 10, 22:43 #24
Seanus: Post 8 from aphro is the best here. why, thank you. Until 2 weeks ago I did not know I was a leftie, so I don't need more labels. Actually, I am against labeling human behavior in connection to political orientation. What if people switch parties and go to the other side. Do they alter their behavior accordingly?

SeanBMThreads: 41 Posts: 8,727 Joined: Mar 10, 08 ♂	Edited by: SeanBM Sep 10, 10, 22:45 #25
aphrodisiac: I am against labeling human behavior in connection to political orientation. I think this is wise, I agree with some parties policies and disagree with others.

SeanusThreads: 22 Posts: 30,158 Joined: Dec 25, 07 ♂	Sep 10, 10, 22:52 #26
Spot on! As Seanny said, I support different policies within different parties and am not blind enough to support one party across the board. I can see why rudification is happening more and more. It takes sth special to be nice oftentimes and one is pushed towards being rude on occasions where we are vulnerable or irritated.

SeanBMThreads: 41 Posts: 8,727 Joined: Mar 10, 08 ♂	Sep 10, 10, 22:57 #27
I think the increase in rudeness (if there is one) may be due to financial difficulty and frustration at being hoodwinked by governments, banks and multinational monopolising conglomerates. I am at a loss why left/right has been brought into this thread at all.

southernThreads: 116 Posts: 10,959 Joined: May 17, 07 ♂	Sep 10, 10, 23:05 #28
Yes,basically many people are extremely upset.You are considered useless a priori if you lack heritage.Problems are swept under the carpet.They think many are benefited so the rest will silence but.in reality passsivity of the mass is as threatening to them as violent revolution,the system just fails to fulfill its promises.By staying passive I widen the gap.

SeanusThreads: 22 Posts: 30,158 Joined: Dec 25, 07 ♂	Sep 10, 10, 23:08 #29
I'd agree with the governments and banks part, Seanny, but I really feel that the multinationals have yet to really bite here to a significant extent. Millennium Bank, for example, are pure schysters and they must get the goat of many Poles. Swiping occurs all too readily. The government is gonna exacerbate this by upping VAT. Most Poles are not earning sufficiently more to warrant such swicking.

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Sep 10, 10, 23:09 #30

SeanBM:

I am at a loss why left/right has been brought into this thread at all.

That would be my mistake - I was talking too much from a Dutch perspective. Mea culpa for that. As for the Dutch perspective: we see the right basically rise to power in NL and this is accompanied by the above meant rudification towards foreigners. The main protagonist is the infamous Geert Wilders, who makes it a habit to structurally insult Muslims and other foreigners. His followers follow his footsteps blindly, which leads to this rudification of society. I was just wondering if this was happening in other societies, like the Polish one.

>^..^<

M-G (busy)

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