Ironside: There no point to discus it!:)
You mean you don't have the answers. :) Which is perfectly okay, because I don't have those either! ;)
Ironside: there always will be labels
Perhaps, but maybe some of those labels could do with some revaluation in the light of what we know today.
Ironside: and do not forget that for at last 200 years governments and states do not go to war in the name of religion but ideology!
Religion is an ideology. ;)
Ironside: And there is old greed and quest for power !
Of course, and I'm trying to place the blame on one religion or ideology in particular there, because I already know this has to do with the choices of individuals who occupy such positions in the hierarchy. I guess I just don't understand why anyone would choose to financially or morally support an institute which obviously has caused a lot of misery over the centuries of its existence.
Ironside: Oh but it does:) you choose to believe otherwise I used knowledge and logic
I call it conscience. Some people choose to ignore their feelings though, or they have some mental or physical deficiency which causes them to be totally insensitive. But most healthy people do have a conscience, and do have feelings. It's an instinct we're born with, because we're social beings. We rely on eachother in times of need.
Ironside: They used it as a propaganda in fact they wanted power for their little oligarch - masonry group ! AI ideas are import from the Christian religion - check it up:)
You speak as if humanity didn't have any philosophers and ethics before Christianity, but you should check for yourself, from which philosophy the so-called Christian morals were imported from. Christianity, Judeaism and Islam are even younger than Buddhism. Which is a pretty decieving name to label this way of life, because most of the philosophy and teachings of those who call themselves Buddhists have existed long before Buddha ever read any of those teachings.
Ironside: People like what? The institution is only people and people aren't perfect.
People who ask too many troublesome questions. People who don't believe. People who like sex before Marriage. (Just to give you a few examples!) No, of course people aren't perfect, and I'm not proclaiming to be perfect either, but atleast I'm not teaching my children that it's evil to question, or wrong to be different, because you'll only create more hate between people that way.
Ironside: The CC for ages worked against slavery, for recognition that humans life is precious that all people are basicly equal in the eyes of God (hence human right and equality conception) against prejudiced and often barbarians society's!
Oh really? Against slavery you say? It was a Humanitarian/Anglican Evangelical by the name of William Wilberforce who managed to abolish slavery with a few friends and allies who worked tirelessly to achieve this goal, and that the traditional Catholics who were allied with the Lords and Aristocrats, opposed him in every way possible. It was actually a Spanish Bishop, Las Casas, who suggested to replace their Indian slaves with African slaves. So what do you have to say about that? I think it's easier to simply acknowledge history.
Ironside: The conception of women equality and their right as a wife (only one) is all CC doing!
I'm sorry, but I've never seen a female Pope, I've never seen a female Bishop and I've never seen a female Priest, or even Deacon. It's also not a mystery that within the Catholic tradition, a woman needs to be submissive to her husband. Oh, and of course we'll have to ignore all those wonderful stories about women in the Bible. I'm sorry, but here's a link on the Catholic version of equality and women's rights:
Equality?
Ironside: Today however that freedom went too far - unlimited freedom doesn't exist, everything should be limited by the responsibility and self -limiting and you know damn well that rarely people come to this conclusion on their own
I think it's pretty arrogant to deny me my freedom, just because you think you know what's best for me. It's my life and I will accept the consequences of my own behaviour, thank you very much. If I respect the law and behave accordingly, and don't harm anyone with whatever I choose to do, then who the Hell are you to tell me that my freedom went too far?? And do you honestly think that you can preach to me about my responsibilities from your religious perspective, when there are actually people within your institute who sexually abuse children?
Ironside: - rather they go down the hill fast!
From all the people, friends and relatives I've known personally, I've only ever seen one guy go down really fast, and that wasn't even entirely his fault either. Anyway, he died after a he fell from a balcony from the seventh story of a Hotel in Spain, while he was on a Holiday. He got drunk, lost his keys and thought he could jump from one balcony to another, so he could get into his appartment. Tough luck.
Ironside: Self-indulgent individuals without real ties and constant responsibilities? They don't belong, they are a dead end, cattle without carers, easy prey of cynical enough and powerful enough groups!
They don't belong? Care to elaborate on that one? I can probably guess how you feel about modern-day singles from a Catholic perspective, but most people already have those constant responsibilities you're talking about. Work being one of them of course.
Ironside: The CC history proved that CC is on the good side:)
I wish I could give that history a spin like you just did, I think that would solve most of my problems! I understand we have our differences, so let's just say I have a different idea about the good side. ;)
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